Fake Empathy and Like Minded Friends?

My ex-girlfriend is likely HPD and I've dated other HPDs. I've noticed their friends always say they are the most caring, compassionate friends around.

I never saw that. I saw her doing what she did to get credit for it. I never saw her do something that wouldn't be praised by someone. I never thought she cared about her friends, but instead used them to prop up her delicate ego by telling her how awesome, kind and compassionate she was.

Is this common in HPDs? Are they emotionally blank screens that others project what they want to see on? I found it ironic how people said she was so caring and compassionate yet she wasn't real or deep.

What fascinated me was how so many could overlook what she did that was selfish. Everything she did she did for herself only she did it in a way that everybody wanted to think the best of her. She'd do something for herself without thinking of anyone else and her friends would insist she was caring and compassionate, more so than anybody else even though the evidence contradicted that.

I've also wondered if HPDs attract other HPDs. All her friends are attractive. They are as fickle as the wind too. When they like you, they love you. When they have used you up, they leave you dry. They move on to some other "intense" attraction that never lasts long.

I've thought before that HPDs wouldn't like one another because they don't want to share a stage. Are there other PDs they tend to attract around them, like a fan club? Thanks.

"My ex-girlfriend is likely HPD and I've dated other HPDs. I've noticed their friends always say they are the most caring, compassionate friends around.

I never saw that. I saw her doing what she did to get credit for it. I never saw her do something that wouldn't be praised by someone. I never thought she cared about her friends, but instead used them to prop up her delicate ego by telling her how awesome, kind and compassionate she was.

Is this common in HPDs?"

Very common.

Its the HPD gaze they use on us in relationships to make us feel so special.

By this HPD gaze I mean their intense stare and everything they do to prop a person up and make them feel special. The HPD's goal with this for friends is to extract praise and attention which they need to survive and feel alive, this is part of their goal for relationships too but the other more important goal for them is to conquer us and move on.

Of course most of them don't know they'll be moving on.

They think that when they conqueor us ie get all of our love and loyalty that they will finally be fulfilled and that they will of finally found their one true love but it never happens and they tend to lose all or most of their previous feelings for us and move on to somebody new, somebody unconquered.

Ooh exciting!

Maybe this time I'll find the one...

Anyway the never ending cycle of pain and dissapointment for them and others continues.

Since the friends an HPD keeps are usually shallow engagements if she abandons them it won't come as a big painful blow to those shallow friends.

It will be more like "Wow, Cindy was fun I wonder why she doesn't hang out with us anymore?" "Oh I think its because she's involved with that new guy Kurt" "Ahh I see well bummer for us LOL"

So ultimately the friends or ex friends remain fooled that this person was oh so great to them when really this person had mostly used them to get what she needed and nothing more.

Most of the HPD's I've talked to indepth have assured me oh I really care for my friends KontrollerX!!! and when I press them further with my question of...are you sure its your friends you care about and their wellbeing or do you moreso care about the feelings they give you? The answer to this is usually always the same. It stops my HPD chat buddies in their tracks and they say something like "Oh my god I never thought of it like this before I think you're right" and then they seem very sad to finally be made aware to that aspect of themselves.

"Are they emotionally blank screens that others project what they want to see on?"

Half and half.

On one hand they really do become your dream girl because they have an inner talent for knowing just what words to say that you will want to hear. Their observational skills are very very good and they will pick up on the little things you like and try to do them often. If she senses you would like to be called sexy she will call you sexy and overdo it if she sees you really like it and just call you that all the time.

The other half where they do become a fantasy that we create is when we believe that this fake construct is real and imagine a future with it and become filled with our visions of a great and long life together. That is our fantasy territory where we add on to her creation for us and paint that blank slate ourselves with our imaginations and logical conclusions to the currently exhibited fake behaviour aimed at capturing us.

So to sum up 1. The HPD crafts a dream girl persona for us based on what she judges we will like using her intense observational skills and 2. We by merely believing in this character make it real in our minds and project extra things onto it that we hope to see in our future together with it. So in closing that while the HPD may indeed be halfway a blank slate for whatever we want to see the other half shows that the HPD really does become that for us for a time and it is the HPD's created character for us not purely our imagination running wild.

"I found it ironic how people said she was so caring and compassionate yet she wasn't real or deep."

Well by focusing intensely on those people and doing good things for them they did come to a logical conclusion to think she was caring and compassionate but that logical conclusion was ultimately based on a deception. So no fault of their own. They just don't know about HPD's. I blame Oprah and Dr. Phil for that. They really need to do a show and help these women and their victims and also give it more exposure. BPD, NPD and ASPD are all widely known about in pop culture. Its HPD's time for that too I think.

"What fascinated me was how so many could overlook what she did that was selfish. Everything she did she did for herself only she did it in a way that everybody wanted to think the best of her."

Its like a magic trick. Distract the audience with the beautiful girls and then while they are distracted you do what needs to be done to pull of your trick. The HPD's aquaintances and friends overlook any selfishness because the distraction of being so intensely observed and made to feel special and laugh at the HPD's jokes are a potent and pleasing distraction for whats really going on.

"I've also wondered if HPDs attract other HPDs. All her friends are attractive. They are as fickle as the wind too. When they like you, they love you. When they have used you up, they leave you dry. They move on to some other "intense" attraction that never lasts long."

Its possible but in general an HPD is more apt to hang around with ugly girls since they hate, hate, hate competition. Since many of them are also bisexual though this could explain why she hangs around hot chicks. Yet another reason to explain this is status. Perhaps these girls are incredibly popular and the HPD figures she can use them to get even more popular still and get ever increasing amounts of attention from them and all the guys that they will introduce her to. The HPD will not stop until she dominates everything and everyone in her circle of friends.

"I've thought before that HPDs wouldn't like one another because they don't want to share a stage. Are there other PDs they tend to attract around them, like a fan club? Thanks."

Sometimes they can be friends with BPD's and other HPD's but they typically are made to be slaves of ASPD's or near slaves by NPD's.

And no I don't believe any other Cluster B would allow themselves to become part of an HPD's fanclub unless they thought there was something in it for them down the line and they knew they could get it whatever it is.

HPD's tend to take one avoidant personality disordered male or female as a life long friend and have a group of normal good guys as their fanclub and constantly string each member of that club along that if they do things for the HPD like buy her stuff or what not they will be with her or get sex somewhere down the line. Sometimes the sex happens but they usually never get her in a relationship with them. The HPD will keep the ton of good guys as her fanclub for a while and if she finds a good guy she is very attracted to she will make him her main relationship partner while cheating on him with everyone else but still wanting to keep him at least until he is conquered by her.

Once she finds an ASPD though she is slowly and systematically destroyed by him.

I guess the only solace for an HPD whose had this happen to them is at least they thought they finally found their soulmate after all that searching and may of felt the perfect love contentment they'd always searched for at least for a little while longer than average lol.

The HPD will not stop until she dominates everything and everyone in her circle of friends.

so very true. it really is all about her. like picking clothes off a rack in a clothing store. people are temporary accessories to be used and then discarded. subtle domination of every single person in her immediate sphere.

I've noticed their friends always say they are the most caring, compassionate friends around. I never saw that. I saw her doing what she did to get credit for it. I never saw her do something that wouldn't be praised by someone. I never thought she cared about her friends, but instead used them to prop up her delicate ego by telling her how awesome, kind and compassionate she was. What fascinated me was how so many could overlook what she did that was selfish. Everything she did she did for herself only she did it in a way that everybody wanted to think the best of her. She'd do something for herself without thinking of anyone else and her friends would insist she was caring and compassionate, more so than anybody else even though the evidence contradicted that.

wow...are we describing the same person? that is the weird thing about some people with hpd. 'everyone' except the few that get close truly, truly, truly believe that the hpd is the most kindest, sweetest person they have ever met. all you hear is...'you're so nice' or 'you're so sweet'....etc. etc. but, in reality they are the 100% complete opposite. it is so strange.

Thanks for this great insight.

One of her friends is definitely BPD. Very intense, stormy relationships. Lots of anger that gets bottled up, then unleashed. Mood and self-image instability. Whoever she is, she's that person for however long that person is around. Very strange and chaotic.

It takes my ex a while to move on. She hangs on for about a year, then it goes south.

I've got some of her E-mails to share. It is all about her. Nothing about anyone else, it is how others made her feel. All her writing is like that. She is oblivious to how she makes others feel. It is all about how she feels and who can make her feel a certain way.

She overdoes the "baby" and "sugar boo" thing. At first it was cute, then it got annoying.

I take responsibility for my role in the relationship. I don't completely blame her. I was a willing victim. A lot of it was I wanted to help her, then I wanted to figure out what was wrong. I didn't know if it was her or me.

I liken being with her to a drug experience. She got me high, but there were side effects, and the withdrawal has about killed me. I was addicted to the high though. I was a willing, ignorant victim.

I'm interested in roles and ASPDs with HPDs. The role she played with me was victim. She was excellent at princess, too. She could switch them on and off at will.

Do HPDs learn how to mirror others, that's how they "become" roles? No role lasts long. It's play acting, trying on one hat, then another. While they seem perfect for the role while they are playing it, as soon as it is gone, you see how empty and hollow the performance was.

Right now she has an ASPD in her life. She claims they are meant to be together. Everybody says that. They are kindred spirits, soul mates, all the cliches have been trotted out. They dedicate songs to each other all the time.

Is it a mutual fantasy situation with ASPDs and HPDs? When does the bubble burst? Who mirrors who? I've always heard an ASPD becomes whoever you want him to be. An HPD makes you feel good about who you are.

Does the ASPD become the HPD's roles, and it makes the HPD feel good because she's really making herself feel good, not a real or deep other person?

In the end, the ASPD destroys the HPD? I believe the ASPD is after something and it is not the love and devotion of the HPD. She thinks that. She is very confident he adores her. I believe he wants something and once he gets it, he'll be done with her and dump her.

Her best friend is an APD. She slept with him to make herself feel good when we'd break up. I didn't know she was sleeping with him. Now he claims to be in love with her. She has absolutely no regard for his feelings. She keeps saying he knew how she felt, he set himself up, he knew all along that it wouldn't be more than friends with benefits.

Poor guy. He's devastated and all she does is tell him how great her ASPD is. I've told him to move on, to get away from her, he'll never find love and companionship. If he wants rejection and pain and humiliation, however, she'll give him those. She is already. Sometimes I believe he enjoys being long suffering with her.

"I liken being with her to a drug experience. She got me high, but there were side effects, and the withdrawal has about killed me. I was addicted to the high though. I was a willing, ignorant victim."

Yeah this pain happens to us victims either because we did not love and know ourselves enough throughout our lives and the HPD became what we always wanted to be and we loved ourselves through her and when she was gone so was our long neglected self love which brings tremendous pain or simply another good explanation for the pain is that the HPD became a fantasy of ours that we long thought was too far out there to ever get but here it was manifested in this HPD and we felt like the luckiest person on the planet. Then of course she's gone and our realized dream with her. A painful blow to be sure.

"Do HPDs learn how to mirror others, that's how they "become" roles? No role lasts long. It's play acting, trying on one hat, then another. While they seem perfect for the role while they are playing it, as soon as it is gone, you see how empty and hollow the performance was."

I'm not sure they so much learn it as it is automatic. They will act like you and this for you creates a feeling of a closer bond. I've talked to different HPD's about this and one of my HPD buddies says she does this automatically and doesn't even try to do it. Its out of her control with guys basically. However this isn't to say that they are incapable of deception as they do add to this automatic mirroring effect by using their intense observational skills to find out what you like and then milk it for all its worth to capture you.

"Right now she has an ASPD in her life. She claims they are meant to be together. Everybody says that. They are kindred spirits, soul mates, all the cliches have been trotted out. They dedicate songs to each other all the time."

In this instance she is the prey but doesn't know it.

The ASPD has formed a character for her.

She thinks this character would enjoy song dedications and other nonsense like that.

In reality the ASPD is buying time and seeing what works and what doesn't.

He will shift his character accordingly as her interest wanes or increases.

The character has probably been constructed to seem to have a weakness for foolishness like this and the HPD is taking this bait thinking she will be able to win his heart by exploiting this weakness but when she goes for the jugular with all the B.S I love you and care about you talk the ASPD will pull back with cold indifference and the HPD will be put in a state of shock for a time but then recover from that and try desperately to win his heart. The ASPD seeing this will wait until she is most desperate and at her wits end and then begin grooming her for slavery by perhaps having her do something she might not do otherwise that will probably humiliate her with the reward being his possibly being happy with her for what she will do. The HPD desperately in love will do anything at this point.

"Is it a mutual fantasy situation with ASPDs and HPDs? When does the bubble burst? Who mirrors who? I've always heard an ASPD becomes whoever you want him to be. An HPD makes you feel good about who you are.

Does the ASPD become the HPD's roles, and it makes the HPD feel good because she's really making herself feel good, not a real or deep other person?"

No, its not a mutual fantasy situation. Its always the ASPD playing whatever role is needed to achieve their goal. They don't fantasize about any ideal life with the HPD other than getting her into bed LOL. In the HPD's case its all fantasy though since they are always searching for ideal love. The ASPD would play this game to perfection and know just when to be cold and when to be the badass super awesome character with status that drives HPD's wild for all the attention they think they will get from being connected to such a person like that. If the ASPD has no status but is attractive that can also be his key to getting and ultimately manipulating an HPD into his willing slave.

"In the end, the ASPD destroys the HPD?'

Yep. The number of ways are many. Pimping her out to friends, making her sell drugs for him, using her for sex and telling her to get lost afterwards, getting her hooked on drugs to humiliate her, etc.

"I believe the ASPD is after something and it is not the love and devotion of the HPD. She thinks that. She is very confident he adores her. I believe he wants something and once he gets it, he'll be done with her and dump her."

Sometimes they get rid of an HPD and sometimes they don't. All depends on the ASPD really. What they want from just about anyone they get involved with is a willing slave. Thats the main goal. Probably to feel powerful and intelligent I'm guessing. Well that and to get amusement from seeing all the HPD's wild emotions. Its my opinion though that an ASPD probably prefers BPD's over any other woman though as they have stronger wilder emotions in general than your average HPD ie more to exploit and more fun for them. Also another opinion of mine from reading about HPD and BPD is BPD's are the better manipulators than HPD's so the ASPD might like them better for the battle of wits as well.

"Her best friend is an APD. She slept with him to make herself feel good when we'd break up. I didn't know she was sleeping with him. Now he claims to be in love with her. She has absolutely no regard for his feelings. She keeps saying he knew how she felt, he set himself up, he knew all along that it wouldn't be more than friends with benefits."

Yeah my avoidant friend was perfectly willing to be a servant for my HPD the rest of his life.

He was saddened by the revelation I gave him about HPD and that their entire friendship was basically fake.

I just gave him the info to read over and he told me he agreed with me and that was that I didn't force him to come to any conclusion about the HPD.

Shame though.

Avoidants really are incredible people.

Some of the most witty and intelligent, kind caring individuals you could ever meet.

"Poor guy. He's devastated and all she does is tell him how great her ASPD is. I've told him to move on, to get away from her, he'll never find love and companionship. If he wants rejection and pain and humiliation, however, she'll give him those. She is already. Sometimes I believe he enjoys being long suffering with her."

Same for my avoidant buddy.

Another of their good traits is their loyalty but with HPD's it really destroys them.

Right now she has an ASPD in her life. She claims they are meant to be together. Everybody says that. They are kindred spirits, soul mates, all the cliches have been trotted out. They dedicate songs to each other all the time.

that is the one thing about hpd's that i can not accept. i could take all of it but that is so sick and so, unfortunately true. that's why any one who has ever had feelings for an hpd should not stick around - cut all ties - because eventually if they do meet their aspd, saviour, ideal love they will become more of a doormat than humanly possible and you will be there to see it.

it is at this point that their hyper-femininity goes into unreal overdrive and they magically transform themselves into a masochist slave. i watched my hpd friend of ten years do this with a npd 'ideal' - i didn't know about hpd until this past year so i didn't know what was going on but now in hindsight i see so clearly what their relationship is/was.

i have no feelings for her so i don't care one way or the other but if i did it would have devestated me. this is the one thing that infuriates me. when i think of how awful they are to everyone thru their manipulation, lies, using others and then to think that they would become a slave to a monster makes me...well, i can't even say how it makes me feel.

they will like KX says pimp themselves out for him, do or talk about doing criminal acts (that you would not believe) for him, allow him to beat her during sex.. i've said enough already. i feel like i have to go wash msyelf in the shower for half an hour to clean my spirit again.

i have read many posts on this site and one phrase comes to mind, that i have read over and over...'she stole my innocence'. that's how i feel with the woman i came to care for. i thought she was so helpless and sweet and kind. that's what is so weird about hpd's that choose to engage themselves in this behaviour. they like bollas says 'want to remain child-like until they are in their 50's and 60's.' so their appearance does not match up to their motivations...that's how they get away with what they do and their ability to enter our psyche's and twist them around is what causes the feeling of loss of innocence. i never understood true badness until i opened my heart to an hpd.

Wow..good posts. Again..more of the same. Kevin, you're on target...read thru some of the recent posts from the last few months. You'll see all the answers you need. HPD'ism is unfortunately supported by the celebrity media machine/fashion industry/music industry/sports industry in the US -

KX- I am so with you on the Oprah/Dr.Phil thing. I think most people don't care or really think much about this bad behavior they run up against in relationships all over the place is tied to deeper things than just 'that person is a selfish oaf' pr they'll justify bad behaviour to immaturity -but come on- at age 35 or 40 or more?? maturity and personal responsibility should be in place by then.

I think it would be of great service for those two blowhards(phil/oprah) to expose HPD and Variants of the Cluster B PDs..ugh...not just the extremes..but the smaller subtle ######6 that really crushes the average joe/jane.

Oprah did a show on NPD not long ago..but it was a classic EXTREME case that I saw with closed captioning(while I tried to sweat out my HPD at the gym) Therefore most would filter and say..oh..well he/she's not THAT bad....however...

I will do my part and write to Oprah/Phil today asking them to begin a campaign. I wish so badly that the ex HPD of mine would be confronted w/this stuff that I couldn't bring myself to confront her with.

Enlighten the Masses Oprah and Phil!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I will do my part and write to Oprah/Phil today asking them to begin a campaign.

It's funny that you mention the Oprah show. I was so devastated by my hpd, I actually sent them my story a few weeks ago. They have yet to reply to me however. If enough victims send them their stories, maybe the producers of the show will see how damaging these people are, and might consider using hpd as a show topic.

cool Lone Ranger-
well I just wrote Oprah and mentioned old Phil too.
I just kinda mentioned that maybe they should look at Cluster B PDs and feature the harm they can do. I said not in the extreme forms..but look at the day to day manipulations and mindficks that gradually degrade people to the point of extreme depression/confusion. I asked them specifically to consider =what is really behind selfishness in an adult? or what makes a person think they can use others as an adult? Isn't the answer to those a bit scary?

- But LR_ the trouble is that those that are 'sick' cannot see it, they are so deep in denial that they're blind, so is there ever a cure? They will justify it/etc. I guess it would just give non-PDs info to consider. Myself-I never realized that these people are really out there in sheeps clothing...now I am much more alert and discerning. I only looked around about this because I have a friend who's a therapist and called my HPD 'Borderline' almost immediately upon hearing about her, however I saw a mix of several ClusterB disorders...and really it's just sad.
------ - PS- I have a blind date tonight- wish me luck--- ---- -- - - --

BTW Kevin- yeah, my HPD had dense friends who were beneath her in looks,social skills,etc. It was clear she could manipulate and dominate them. She also noted that an 'ex' previous to me had mentioned her friends and said not nice things about them..I asked a few times what they'd said..and got a change of topic/NO ANSWER. Real depth and truth is the 'crucifix' to this emotional vampire even though they'll say they are DEEP and all about truth.
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