Exploring *Bad* Emotions

I don't understand the concept of many bad emotions.

While I can feel "empathy" and rage (usually, triggered) ... bad emotions are sort of like a "glass half-full" for me.

While I *think* I've felt them...I find that it's my *discomfort* with having to feel them, that makes me feel *bad*.

So, the work I'm doing is "exploring bad emotions."

For instance:

A gentleman who I really liked, and wanted to *try to love him* informed me that he'd "met a nice lady" and that they were going to try and have a relationship. Two weeks prior, he was heavily pursuing me for an exclusive relationship. I suspected that this was "game", but...hoped that he was telling the truth.

I was *happy* for him. In my mind, he'd found someone better matched, and was happy. So, I needed to reframe my expectations that he and I would be together and move on. Right???

So, I asked about her: "So, tell me about her? Is she nice? Is she pretty? Does she make you laugh?"

But he got all weird...as if I didn't react the "right" way.

Then I shifted the conversation (because I actually like speaking with him) and told him about my ex-lover who was heavily pursuing me since my divorce.

He didn't respond the same way. He got quiet.
I'm not sure why?

I thought we could be just two friends talking about our relationships...

He then needed to go and grab dinner...

When I recounted this to a friend, he informed me that I was supposed to be jealous that he'd chosen another woman over me; and fought harder to have him...

I should have been jealous??? FOUGHT harder to have him???

I don't know what jealousy feels like.
I don't fight for men... They're capable to making their own decisions about who they wish to be with. The decision was made. What's left to fight for?

I'm working on that...

Hi TrophyWife,

You wrote about jealousy and not feeling it.

I don't know if it applies to HPD (as it's not mentioned in the criteria for HPD), but there is a word I find interesting - "Zelophobia"

It essentially means 'fear of feeling jealous', though some definitions also include the idea that this fear runs so deep that the person ends up turning off all emotions. Another way to say it is that the feeling is so painful (or so feared for other reasons), that a person would rather feel nothing than feel jealous.

It's a curiosity of mine though. The reason is it's often said that people with BPD have an extreme fear abandonment. Interesting because the word "jealousy" means "fear of anticipated loss", and so it seems to me the fears are likely related.

I've also often pondered that NPD and AsPD types also have deep seated fears of feeling painful emotions, so turn many of their feelings off.

xdude wrote:Hi TrophyWife,

You wrote about jealousy and not feeling it.

I don't know if it applies to HPD (as it's not mentioned in the criteria for HPD), but there is a word I find interesting - "Zelophobia"

It essentially means 'fear of feeling jealous', though some definitions also include the idea that this fear runs so deep that the person ends up turning off all emotions. Another way to say it is that the feeling is so painful (or so feared for other reasons), that a person would rather feel nothing than feel jealous.

It's a curiosity of mine though. The reason is it's often said that people with BPD have an extreme fear abandonment. Interesting because the word "jealousy" means "fear of anticipated loss", and so it seems to me the fears are likely related.

I've also often pondered that NPD and AsPD types also have deep seated fears of feeling painful emotions, so turn many of their feelings off.

Muy interesante!!!!

I often wondered why--when I should feel jealous--I usually just accept the situation and move on. But...why would anyone WANT to feel bad?

Isn't it actually a good thing to be able to just...move on?

I find that jealousy only benefits the person who chose another lover. Why would he want me to be jealous? Does he enjoy having his car windows shattered, or seeing me cry, or hearing me beg?

Kinda psycho, actually...

I can comment on envy...

It's because allowing the feeling is tantamount to an acknowledgement that someone is superior to you, which is unacceptable.

because emotions aren't just the result of something; when they occur unexpectedly they also imply certain THOUGHTS that are unacceptable, that if they were acknowledged would quadruple the emotion to a level that is unacceptable or unbearable...and it's like this vicious cycle of emotional escalation between emotions > implicated thoughts > emotions > etc..

xdude wrote:I've also often pondered that NPD and AsPD types also have deep seated fears of feeling painful emotions, so turn many of their feelings off.

I have been diagnosed with PD-NOS, but I can relate to this. That is part of it. And they can either be muted through rationalization, or turned off altogether through emotional detachment from self/other.

@xdude, I did some "Googling" during lunch looking for information on zelophobia. Interesting.

In addition, I found the website, "Creating New Love", and found of particular interest, an article about the "purpose of jealousy."

This is an excerpt:

"A partner who I will call Robb and I committed to honesty before we were aware that we wanted sexual bonding. We had both yearned to find others who would be willing to speak the truth, regardless of resulting pain. We wanted others who would persist through truth-telling so we could find out what was actually true of the other person, and what were old patterns from our earlier experiences. So when jealousy started to appear several weeks after we began sexual bonding, we had a context in which to address it.

I was angry that he had shared his sexual energy with other people! Absurd, of course, because we weren’t young teens with no experience. I knew I had nothing to be jealous about, because he was clearly bonded to me. Yet here were the feelings.

I soon realized that these feelings had two functions.

One was declaring that I want all his sexual energy in our relation­ship. He loved hearing this jealousy. I was expressing how much I wanted him, matching his feelings for me."

I'm left with a huge "WTF??" here...

So, I'm SUPPOSED to be jealous to show my love...and he "loved hearing this jealousy???"

what?

F**K THAT SH * T!!!!

If presumably mature adults need to discern if their "feelings matched", why not just have a conversation about it? Why play games? I'm sorry, but this reads like emotional manipulation. And again, why is this ok?

crystal_richardson_ wrote:I can comment on envy...

It's because allowing the feeling is tantamount to an acknowledgement that someone is superior to you, which is unacceptable.

Ok. I do recognize that someone IS superior to me (hence, why he chose her). I get that. This is why I wished him well, and moved on. Her value compared to mine is explicit in his choice.

Case closed?

Right?

But I don't *get* why I'm supposed to *feel* anything.

That's where I'm stuck...

trophywife wrote: Why would he want me to be jealous? Does he enjoy having his car windows shattered, or seeing me cry, or hearing me beg?

Kinda psycho, actually...

Yes. Yes he does. He probably is seeking SOMETHING/ANYTHING from you to show somehow that you do care about him. You might be a hard woman to read.

graveflower wrote:

trophywife wrote: Why would he want me to be jealous? Does he enjoy having his car windows shattered, or seeing me cry, or hearing me beg?

Kinda psycho, actually...

Yes. Yes he does. He probably is seeking SOMETHING/ANYTHING from you to show somehow that you do care about him. You might be a hard woman to read.

Really? Believe it or not, this makes sense. But...

Why would a mature, professional man in his 50s want that much drama???

I have told him that I liked him and would be open to exploring something intimate with him. I didn't want "titles" or expectations... And I was either open to a "monogamish" relationship or even mutual monogamy, if we agreed on it. I knew he was dating and seeing other women (he openly told me about it), so I made no expectations that he'd be monogamous.

He got weird about that too...

I'm not sure what else I could have done...

Then he told me about the new lady he met. But he seems "blah" about it...

Then it didn't work out between them.

Then he is back...

But I'm not jealous, when he talks about other women he's sleeping with.

I find it odd that his behavior is *normal* and my behavior is *pathological*... We're doing the same thing (casually dating), but somehow I'm expected to "do something."

I'm trying.... I really *want to try to* love him....

That's why I'm here...

crystal_richardson_ wrote:...
It's because allowing the feeling is tantamount to an acknowledgement that someone is superior to you, which is unacceptable.

because emotions aren't just the result of something; when they occur unexpectedly they also imply certain THOUGHTS that are unacceptable, that if they were acknowledged would quadruple the emotion to a level that is unacceptable or unbearable...and it's like this vicious cycle of emotional escalation between emotions > implicated thoughts > emotions > etc..

Yes. To add to this...

I don't think most people "want" to feel painful emotions (not to be confused with avoidance of stress, discomfort, which many people do seek out to strengthen themselves), but it's when the painful emotions are accompanied by a series of cascading thoughts that there is a problem. It's when the cascading thoughts result in amplifying the painful emotion, re-awaken pain from the past, and escalate ...

One way to deal with that is to shut-off feelings, to build a set of thoughts and beliefs that protects us from the feeling. To whatever degree those walls are fragile, another solution is to discard someone who triggers such feelings.

Another way is a lot of painful introspection, maybe therapy, try to get to the bottom of what is setting off those out of control cascading thoughts and feelings.

It does seems to me some painful emotions are more likely than others to set off this cascading effect. Jealousy in particular seems to be an emotion that triggers a strong cascade.

xdude wrote:
I don't think most people "want" to feel painful emotions (not to be confused with avoidance of stress, discomfort, which many people do seek out to strengthen themselves), but it's when the painful emotions are accompanied by a series of cascading thoughts that there is a problem.

Ok... but what if there are no "cascading thoughts?" What if I accept that he's made a choice and truly just want him to be happy? Should not he be "relieved" and move on?

"Why was he so upset???"

Why is there any expectation of a jealousy response from me?

Why is this somehow *pathological?* that I have no such response?

That's what I'm trying to understand.

Trophywife