HPD, infidelity, I've ruined my marriage

The topic of infidelity is always going to be a triggering topic (i.e., most people have very strong feelings about it).

ruinedgirl wrote:..If someone close to me flatters me, it makes me feel good, but its almost like I think they r just supposed to do that. But if someone other than my husband does it, it has to be even more true it feels...

I understand, and really I don't think you are at completely unusual in feeling this way, but the problem is then anyone new, who does become close, is bound to end up in the 'apathy' zone eventually.

ruinedgirl wrote:...She keeps saying I have the mentality of someone who was sexually abused as a child, that I fit that perfectly, there was just no abuse, at least not sexually. I am sorry to complain and vent, its just so hard to not understand yourself and to wonder whats wrong with you. Thank you for your replies and for your explanation of things.

Well hmm.

My thought is this -

Your therapist may believe that because some of what you've written is the kind of thing a victim may write/think. Also there are a lot of different ways to abuse people, not all of which are so blatant and obvious as forced sexual abuse.

But... few people if any really want to be true victims of abuse. I mean to be a victim that really has no choice in the matter, forced.

On the other hand... There is a lot written on the internet and in books by people who have been victimized, but also by people who have not been, who still have 'victim think'.

Essentially 'victim think' is common enough, and people can cling to victim think because there are benefits including -

o A means to get sympathy, support, and attention from others.
o The option to avoid responsibility ('I'm a victim of circumstances'), while getting what one wants.
o A sense of importance ('I'm special, the whole world is against me').

and many other benefits, but of course there are many costs too, just that for victim-thinkers it's the pattern they know and it can feel like the benefits outweigh the costs.

Anyway victim-think happens for some people even if they've been no more or less abused than others. Maybe worth some research time and discussion with your therapist?

Infidelity is a very strong topic and I realize people are going to be very judgemental. For all of you saying it isnt rocket science, it isn't hard, etc...you're right, and I'm not making excuses. All I know is there is literally a mental block that goes up and whether I want to say no or not, I feel like I can't. Its never about the sex or another guy, I have no idea what its about. I do know what I do. Most people that cheat have a reason for it...lack of sex, unhappy marriage, etc..but I have none of that. If I wanted to cheat, if I felt I could say no, I wouldnt be in therapy now. If I wanted to cheat, this wouldnt be an issue. I think back to being a teenager, and though not sexually active, I still "dated" guys, kissed guys and such that I didn't want to. I wouldnt like them at all but once they liked me, I felt like I had to. Believe me, I wish it was something as simple as wanting to cheat. But its not. I know many people don't understand this and don't even believe it. I know to lots of you, this sounds bs but its not. This is how I feel and what I'm trying to figure out and change. Other than affairs, I have a lot of the other hpd symptom. Its nice to have a reason for being the way I am, feeling the way I do. Have people had a lot of luck with therapy? I've never considered victim-think. Thats a concept worth discussing. I dont realize I play the victim. She says she senses a coldness from me that is usually evident with an abuse victim, and the way I view myself and sex is what is tipping her off on abuse. I do tend to play the victim a lot in every day life though and place blame on others. I cant handle criticism or rejection and zi always over think everything. I want everyone to like me and cant handle if someone is even short with me, I start imagining they're mad amd it drives me crazy. I feel very superficial a lot and fake with certain people. My husband and kids are the only ones I'm real amd comfortable around. i have spent my whole life feeling different, awkward...I just hope I can be helped. I want to save my marriage but I also want to fix me and that goes way deeper than affairs. Feel free to share yoyr experiences, I'd love to hear others personal accounts. Thanks for all the replies and new ideas.

Hey ruinedgirl,

ruinedgirl wrote:...I want everyone to like me and cant handle if someone is even short with me, I start imagining they're mad amd it drives me crazy. ...

A comment on this -

This seems to be something that a lot of people with HPD have written here too. This core feeling/belief that it is utterly important that others 'like me', but another comment on that below... Do you have any ideas why? I ask because when I've asked others before you, it seems nobody knows why. Maybe it's just a strongly held belief, maybe going so far back the reasons why are long gone?

It's interesting though because people with AsPD (also cluster B types) sometimes seem to go to the other extreme, that nobody should like them and if they do, they are someone to exploit until they are burned.

I think most people are less extreme in their beliefs. I think most people want to be liked, hopefully try to treat others reasonably, but also they feel a sense that it's important to stay 'true' to their core beliefs, their sense of who they are, even if that means some people don't like them.

So to finish the thought above, it ends up being impossible to have everyone 'like us'. In trying to please everyone, in avoiding taking sides or a stance, we invariably end up hurting someone. In this case your husband, but it could be a friend, an acquaintance, family, someone is going to be hurt when we don't choose what we value, and who we value. There is really no safe sideline in life (at least not that I know of) where everyone can like us.

ruinedgirl wrote:...I want everyone to like me and cant handle if someone is even short with me, I start imagining they're mad amd it drives me crazy. ...

God I definitely relate to that cause I'm the same way.

I dont really know why I want everyone to like me, thats a good question. If someone doesn't like me, or acts short or mad, I literally obsess over it and over think it. Some one can just act a little off with me and I come up with 5 reasons why I know for SURE they are either mad or dislike me suddenly. It fills me with anxiety and just makes me feel bad until I find out why and try to change it. And most cases are my imagination. You have some very good points and have given me some good topics to address in therapy next week. Youre right, its easier for me to hurt my husband then a friend because I see him a permanent, he loves me & cant leave, but a friend or someone else is more likely to change their feelings. I didn't have a lot of love or attention as a child, I'm not sure if it stems from there or not. Thank you xdude for not judging me or leaving negative comments. Your insight has been very helpful.

ruinedgirl wrote:I didn't have a lot of love or attention as a child, I'm not sure if it stems from there or not.

I believe it does, and I've read that for pwHPD growing up in such an environment leaves them starving for the love and attention they didn't get as children.

I was dx'd with HPD traits and I relate to that a lot, and I think that's where the need for attention and love and being liked from others comes from. Trying to get those original unmet childhood (from the parent) needs met by others.

It's a matter of self-worth - inside feeling worthless and really not good enough for anyone - so having a sense of self worth and self-esteem that is so dependent upon others.

Maybe you can or can't relate to that, I don't know.

Sorry that I can't provide any helpful advice, just relate to a lot of what you've written.

I relate to that a lot blank_identity. Thats exactly how I feel. I depend on other people to make me feel good about myself. I want people to like me and I dont really like myself. I don't really know myself, I feel like, like your name, that I have a blank identity. I don't really know who I am. Do you feel that way? I'm a people pleasure and would do things I didnt really want to do just because someone else wanted me to. Its not a great feeling.

Do you feel that way?

Yes. But BPD is my main diagnosis, and identity confusion is a common trait for borderlines. But I wonder because I didn't know it could be true for histrionics as well. Now you have me curious.

I'm a people pleasure and would do things I didnt really want to do just because someone else wanted me to.

I relate to that a lot. I have a very strong codependent and appeasing side, and was especially so in my younger years. But now, I'm not sure if I am still as much or not. It sort of depends on the situation.

Do you feel like you have a very "fluid" identity? Like you said you are a people pleaser, do you ever find you become what you think they want you to be?

It took a lot of self-awareness and soul searching to realize that's what I would do. But I wouldnt even realize I was doing it, it was just so natural to me and there was never any awareness on my part that I was really doing that. It took some time for me to realize what someone once asked me long ago really meant about the roleplaying part of HPD.

But I always attributed that to my BPD, but now I kind of wonder.

I had a friend that was BPD so I know a little about that disorder too. I actually have a few traits from there but not enough for a diagnosis. I have a very dependant and appeasing personality too, and fear of abandoment. I think since both hpd and bpd are cluster b disorders, they overlap some. I DEFINITELY feel that way, I've noticed I'll act how I think they want me to act, I'll even dress more like they (friends) do because I think they will like me more if I do. Most of the time I mold my personality to those around me at the time. I don't really have any real self identity though. I dont fake or pretend around my husband but even around him, I don't know who I am. Do you have jealousy issues? If a girl is dressed better/more revealing or things of that nature, I get jealous because I want people to look at me more and notice me and not them. Not so much in a public setting, but hanging out with friends even, I dont want anyone to look better than me (and I dont really think I'm that attractive or anything.) I'll even flaunt nudity or cleavage or something around my husband hoping to get attention, and he gices me plenty without that. Its weird to be so self conscious like I am, but to like that kind of attention so much. U and I sound a lot alike.

Youre right, its easier for me to hurt my husband then a friend because I see him a permanent, he loves me & cant leave

He can leave. It's a choice to stay. He doesn't Have To stay. It's likely the children are the trap for him.

I cannot relate at all to your problem.

xDude said it :

So to finish the thought above, it ends up being impossible to have everyone 'like us'. In trying to please everyone, in avoiding taking sides or a stance, we invariably end up hurting someone. In this case your husband, but it could be a friend, an acquaintance, family, someone is going to be hurt when we don't choose what we value, and who we value. There is really no safe sideline in life (at least not that I know of) where everyone can like us.