What does she have ?

Hi! I have been lurking here for over two months- ever since my wife ran away with her paramour and I fell in to a deep dark sea of depression.. Thankfully, my wife is now undergoing treatment- staying with her parents. Her psychologist refuses to classify her PD, but my counsellor feels she may be an ASPD. I however feel she may be more of an HPD. I will post the story in detail when I actually feel up to it..... But among what she did was flirting like hell- even in front of me, with my acquaintances, friends ... On the even darker side, she stole stuff from home and sold it, including jewellery, grocery( the way she did it was quite ingenious). She also had a series of multiple, paralel affairs, which she was not not at all contrite about when I found out. She also used aliases, in dealing with her multiple paramours( who m she mainly picked up on the internet) and as part of her various schemes to defraud me.

She spent huge amounts on her personal upkeep and beauty treatments, clothes etc, which were mainly financed by her sale of stuff from the house. I found out about the true cost of these things after she ran away. She was quite successful in separating me from friends, neighbours and tried to separate my from my family as well., succeeding to an extent. She felt sure that I will not be able to attract ANY OTHER WOMAN. For all that we had an arranged marriage and beauty was not something which really attracted me to her.

The reason I feel she may be more of an HPD is :
1. Once both of us consented to marriage, she immediately went on to tell me she loves me and stuff like that- it was romance too soon , with too little to go on at that point.
2. The first time we went to a disco(our first night out after marriage), the day after our wedding, she refused to dance with me, saying I dont dance well.This is not something even the casual friends I have gone to discos with have really pulled on me or would have tolerated.
3. As said above, she really believed that I was would not be attractive to anyone else.. The funny part of it is, in comparision, using many criteria, I would still be able to get a better match, even as a divorcee( which is really not something normal in our society)..
4. She had a vivid sexual imagination, but her idea of intimacy was sex, in 2.5 years of marriage, we never got emotionally intimate. Not that I did not try. I tried everything under the sun- but to her conversation was more of either
a. Tell me some cock and bull story whose purpose I cant see.
b. Tell me some other story and ask me for money to spend on something frivolous.
She never did anything which was for Us. Everything she planned and did was for herself.. She did not seem be capable of doing any long term planning either.. She was a very good tactical planner and could manipulate stuff very well indeed.

Towards the end I realised her mode was to blame others. If she did anything wrong, it was her parents' fault or mine. Even in really ridiculous situations. When I asked her why do you have so many affairs her responses were:
1. To take revenge- because somebody wronged her/her friend( with whom she has supposedly almost had a lesbian attachment).
2. Because her father used to beat her when she was young.
3. Because her mother used to blame her for own fathers death - which occured shortly after she was born.
4. And last of all- because I watch too much TV.

She also told our neighbours that I used to have affairs and speak to my mistresses a?ll night on the phone- this is something she did . One more thing- if it matters- she did not complete her schooling. She was very bad at academics and from what I saw of her- lacked interest in anything that did not make an immediate difference to her life.

What do you think ? Why does it make a difference- because her counsellor told me she can be "socialised", but I distrust her ability or her willingness to tell the truth- she seemed too willing to buy some of my wife's lies and she would have a motivation to try and save the marriage. Another thing which worries me is that she wrote an "explanation" letter(actually 2) after around a month of treatment and even this letter has lies in it.. So it is definitely not making a clean breast of it..

Some of the medication she has been prescribed are:

1. Lamotrigine
2. Trifluoperazine
3. Chlorpromazine

I really want to know if I can consider giving our marriage a second chance, without risking another descent into HELL. I will post again - but at the moment, I am too busy thinking of happier stuff ( before you ask, I am still on anti-depressants):D. Any help will be appreciated.

Reading over your story I have to agree with the doctor that said ASPD.

Why?

The stealing, the tactical planning, the incredible manipulation, the prescribed drugs (ASPD's just love fooling psychiatrists into prescribing drugs so they can either sell them on the streets or use them to get high).

Also in your story for the case of HPD I'm not seeing: Excessive dramatics, tons of makeup and eye shadow wearing, shallow conversation, giant male fanclub or any other big factor that would indicate HPD aside from the cheating but thats a Cluster B thing in general.

"I really want to know if I can consider giving our marriage a second chance, without risking another descent into HELL. I will post again - but at the moment, I am too busy thinking of happier stuff ( before you ask, I am still on anti-depressants)Very Happy. Any help will be appreciated."

If your wife is indeed an ASPD sure you can give it a go after you realize a few things...

1. She is not at all the person you thought she was. Merely a persona tailor made to what she thought you would like.
2. The behaviours she exhibited that made your marriage "descent into HELL" as you put it will likely continue. If she wants you back and you make it be on your terms the behaviours will likely be put on hold for a while but gradually return.
3. Don't put any faith in your reborn marriage lasting and also prepare yourself for her dissapearing on you completely with a substantial pile of your money.

IMO this isnt ASPD, dont worry about that. Those same traits are held of other PD's....being manipulative dosent mean anything. Some uninfomed therapist jumping ahead of himself.

Borderline personality disorder seem's to come to mind though. She sounds childish....would you say that at times she seems very childlike?. I dont know much about HPD other then it seems like a fancy word for a whiny bitch so maybe thats what she is.

She could also be just that eh, not everyone sufferes from some disorder.....she could just be a mean, selfish bitch.

KontrollerX wrote:Reading over your story I have to agree with the doctor that said ASPD.

Why?

The stealing, the tactical planning, the incredible manipulation, the prescribed drugs (ASPD's just love fooling psychiatrists into prescribing drugs so they can either sell them on the streets or use them to get high).

Also in your story for the case of HPD I'm not seeing: Excessive dramatics, tons of makeup and eye shadow wearing, shallow conversation, giant male fanclub or any other big factor that would indicate HPD aside from the cheating but thats a Cluster B thing in general.

"I really want to know if I can consider giving our marriage a second chance, without risking another descent into HELL. I will post again - but at the moment, I am too busy thinking of happier stuff ( before you ask, I am still on anti-depressants)Very Happy. Any help will be appreciated."

If your wife is indeed an ASPD sure you can give it a go after you realize a few things...

1. She is not at all the person you thought she was. Merely a persona tailor made to what she thought you would like.
2. The behaviours she exhibited that made your marriage "descent into HELL" as you put it will likely continue. If she wants you back and you make it be on your terms the behaviours will likely be put on hold for a while but gradually return.
3. Don't put any faith in your reborn marriage lasting and also prepare yourself for her dissapearing on you completely with a substantial pile of your money.

KontrollerX, She is under medication now- under the watchful eye of her parents(hopefully). Not when she was with me. When she was with me- she absolutely refused to go to a therapist. I am not sure she did not have a "Fan club". She used to go to colleges( as I learnt later) and pretend to be a student there and make friends. One of these guys I spoke to later said she was with lots of guys. He was shocked to learn she was married. As a woman who is quite homely and later- fat, she could not afford to reveal her marital status I guess..

In terms of make up I guess it could be a cultural/personal variation- not many people wear eye shadow here normally. She dressed like a college girl rather than dressing her age.. She also went in for very expensive beauty treatments. She felt I was too old for her( she didnt when she agreed to marry me- its 7 years which is quite normal here) and sometimes tried to avoid being seen with me.

One reason I would say she is not just a heartless bitch as Jamie123 put it is that she did the same mistake in the same way over and over again and kept getting caught. Initially she used my phones to call her boy friends, when I found out from the bills, she surreptiously bought mobiles and used these instead. The repetitive part of it was, I used to catch her mostly in the same place, same time- in bed, after our dinner, when I would watch a bit of TV. As a well used quote says " to do the same thing and expect different results is insanity".

Everytime she was caught, initially she used to display some contrition, but as time went on, she became more brazen- saying "divorce me" and later "you cant control me". I used to call her parents to complain( one of the perks of an arranged marriage ) and she would - after speaking to them- say sorry once and expect me to forgive- while she went back to her old ways.

Her psychologist says she did an MMPI test and she feels she can be socialised based on this. Among the things her psychologist told me were:

1. Compulsive shopping
2. Lying is only to cover up or manipulate.
3. She resents authority - so she did not like me because of that.
4. She has an impaired empathy( saying this, she gave a meaningful look at my wife's mother).
5. She does have a conscience- only not shown towards me.

I am not sure whether to believe this..

Earlier my wife had herself told me that she does not feel bad when she does any of these things- which is why I had suggested therapy earlier.

The day before she finally ran away, we had another row over her infidelty and she threatened to go leave. I asked her go ahead. Her parents advised me to take her jewellery from her( they were aware that she had already it all and the ones she had now were replacements her parents made). Once I did that, her wings were cut. She spoke to my sister in law, cried ( genuine tears from what I know of her) and accepted she doesnt feel bad- and agreed to go for therapy.

I asked her to stay at her parents( where she could be kept under observation) and take treatment. She had - several times earlier told me that in case she had to leave home, she would not go to her parents and I had advised her against running away with someone- to most of her boy-toys, she played the role of an unmarried woman.

The next morning, I asked her with great sadness " Did you ever really love me ?". Her reply was " No. It was just an infatuation which lasted for maybe a month." When I asked why " To me the most important thing is passion. Then comes caring, then comes understanding". I asked her whether she meant sexual passion and she said yes. The funny thing is that there was never any shortage of it from my side, till she started fooling around. But I stopped having sex after a year and a half- to resume once she shows she can be faithful- which never happened.

Once long back I mentioned that her b**bs were small- and according to her, she goes around asking all the women she knows how to make them big(!!?). This was not important to me- but evidently it was to her.

During our engagement, she was a BIG attention seeker, calling me too many times at work, catching me on IM later....But this gradually came to a stop after marriage. Once the contempt started, this was not there at all. Through out, she tried to show herself as important and put herself in the centre stage when it came to relatives, neighbours etc. This was quite embarrasing sometimes..

What does it sound like- KontrollerX thank you for helping me out- I may feel brave enough to remember more as it goes.

Jamie123- you are right- she did seem quite childish- and to me this was something a bit attractive- possibly I confused childish and innocent- to my detriment. In many many ways she was childish -more than I realised before marriage- but more due to lack of sense and wisdom and not because of innocence or selfless love( both of which she lacked). She was surprisingly cynical and bereft of idealism.[/b]

I said whiney bitch...not hartless

Read up on Borderline personality disorder

Well since you asked me again and I took Jamie's posts into account and the first post again I'm gonna go ahead and say I don't know whether she's ASPD or HPD.

So here comes my helpful yet copout answer at the same time...

Whatever she is it definitely sounds like one of the Cluster B Personality Disorders to me.

Regardless inspite of my answer/non answer I'm still sure you can find help for your situation by reading this forum, the Borderline Personality Disorder forum, the Anti Social Personality Disorder forum and the Narcissistic Personality Disorder forum in as much entirety as you want because these are all the Cluster B Personality Disorders.

You know what, it really dosent matter. KX is probably right and i think my imput might have some truth.

so

she's a whiney antisocial bitch.

She'll only hurt you, or force you to hurt her.

I agree with KontrollerX and JaimeJ23 in that this woman, no matter what label you put on her, is not one with whom you will find happiness. People, generally speaking, don't change. If you are open to the idea of having a cheating wife who is constantly out to fool you, then you can stay with her... just be sure to expect more of the same because I don't think she has any willingness to change no matter what she says and how real her tears are. Self-pity is likely the true cause of her crying. If you don't want constant mistrust and suspicion of her for the rest of your life, stay away from her.

I wish you luck whatever you decide... your path will be steep indeed if you choose to separate yourself from her, but far moreso if your choice is to continue a relationship with her. It would be like rubbing salt in your already deep wounds.

One thing which disturbed me when I met her psychologist and I still find puzzling is that her psychologist actually asked me if I was ok with a "trial period of three months- living with her again, after a month from the time I met the psychologist". I denied it saying I could not take the risk and I would not be able to bear with any further blows.. I found it surprising. This seemed like a crazy idea which my wife would come up with- lacking an awareness of what kind of impact this whole thing had on me- and revealing a casual approach to the problem. Does this mean that in spite of the medication, what she told me etc, she considers this a mere marital problem. Or could she have done to somehow try and save the marriage for some reasons ?

Any psychologists in the room(mylife(?)) could you give your comments on this and on what I posted earlier ?

Chickadee- your comments sound remarkably like what my mother told me... That is bitter medicine, and it could be some time before I can bring myself to accept it. I am still hiding from myself, licking my wounds, tail between my legs. It is going to be a some time before this dog wags its tail or comes out snarling. Let me, in the meanwhile, sniff around. Let me get off my doggy analogies. Bow wow

New to the forum and this is my first post.

I agree that she has ASPD, but probably comorbid with HPD. Cluster B disorders are like the colors of a rainbow, from a distance you can see the 4 colors easily, but it's impossilbe to look close and try to pinpoint exactly where one begins and another ends. Some people fit squarely into one category and others are a blend of two or more. Ultimately it doesn't matter you are still looking at a rainbow and the pot at the end is lethal.

I was married 9 years to an HPD/BPD and most likely DID(she didn't stay in therapy long enough to find out).

In some ways she was the perfect wife, extremely beautiful, fun and talented, but as others have found, it's just a fascade to get you to willingly let her suck the life blood out of you. I didn't even know who I was after the 10 year relationship.

Trust me you do not want to take her back or give her another chance. When I started studying about the disorders and learning that there really wasn't any hope, I didn't want to hear any of it. I have a strong faith in God, so that helped with the denial mechanism, but through the hell she put me through in the divorce, and learning to deal with all the scars of the marriage, I had to realize the experts were right.

You have to ask yourself why your self esteem is so shot, that you would even entertain taking her back. No one who is healthy or in their right mind(I don't mean that derogatory) would want to be married to a pathologically selfish person. The only reason you want her back is becuase you don't think you can get someone else let alone someone who will treat you with respect and honor.

It's been 4 years and I still have to slap myself sometimes when I start to "reminisce" about how "good" things were back then.

The truth is, it was hell, like the stockholm syndrome or a frog boiling in water that won't jump out becuase he doesn't realize what's happening to him, you are deceiving yourself if you think you have anything to gain by taking her back.

Even if she does get better(you have a better chance of winning the lottery), there are other women out there who are actually healthy and can be real and love you in return.

I would rather be alone the rest of my life than submit to someone like that again. Life is too precious a gift to hand it over to someone who will suck it dry and then not even thank you for it. You deserve better. I hope to God you can accept that someday.