Hi, any tips for a recent victim!?

Hi,

I'm female,40+ was involved BRIEFLY with a female 40+, anyways, here are some of the things I dealt with for a year as I stood by hoping she'd change hoping she'd see she could drop her 'act' and let me love her.

In retrospect I find that no matter what I did(it shouldn't be that hard to emanate love to another)..but no matter what -I now realize that I felt nothing warm coming from her.

She seems very insecure and scared and hurt inside..but will not cop to it! It's so frustrating!!!
I finally realize that I don't think she's capable of feeling love/allowing herself to be loved, etc. Yet, it seems she mostly blames ME for; not being 'romantic' enough, not talking fast enough(that's why she interrupts and talks over me) being focused on the past( - so that's why it's happening again) Ditched me on my birthday after calmly eating lunch 1st time. So basically the ditch and run. By the time I get my head on straight..she's gone so far away from me it's apparent that I've lost her. I feel entirely defeated. Then - she slowly goes back to the impossible to find trick...even though you'd think a 'lover' would get some respect at the end of a relatinship...not just dump and run

She wanted me to feel anger towards her I think- I just felt stupid.
I felt bad..I knew deep down there was no feeling in her really, I don't think she really ever even 'saw' me..who I was, it makes it good and bad. Scary but I shouldn't take it personally. right.?

I think she was just glad to be free of the intimacy required to be a girlfriend.

I rationally know she is trouble..however I was taken by her flirting and attractiveness and words, I couldn't believe that she wouldn't eventually see that I wouldn't buy into her 'game' and she'd open up to me and drop her crap and let me love her and be able to be vulnerable enough to love me..but I see that that would erode her power..her fragile structure.. Now I see that maybe she doesn't realize she has a 'game' face on. Now, I'm pissed that I didn't have to guts to reject her 1st ..either way...it probably doesn't matter.

She had a litany of issues..ranging from $ to health to odd friends(dim and/or beneath her -she seems to just use them) to overwhelming familiy and work issues, etc.
- Constant health issues(that I was suspect of from early on) ranging from allergies, bronchitis, stomach flu, sprained ankle('it's NEARLy broken'), back pain, neck pain, car accidents in the past, sore back(off work /collecting disability ), exhaustion.
-Seems heavily influenced by her pal 'who had back surgery 20yrs ago' -so is an expert on her I guess. so decided to stay out of work even longer,
-that 'best friend' appears to play the role of absolute codependent/slave, doing all types of favors, tasks, dirty work - basically attending to the queen like a quasi moto hunchback..yes master..yes..yes. Oh..my feelings master..don't worry about me..I am here for you and with a smile!
-Is moving in with two people to live with them until ?
--an unclear future - I fear a spiral downward into less responsibility and more victim type thinking
- Her job is soooo very important and demanding and stressful than anybody elses
- A comment of hers upon meeting some of my 'generally normal' friends was; "they aren't all that great, I could have them eating out of my hand if I wanted to" -- ughh- I didn't know what to say to that one.
- During a few conversations when I felt we were bonding at a deeper level, she changed topic out of the blue to VERY superficial crap ..or to something about herself or her pains and aches. (i would feel crushed)
- An old man she knows w/serious back trouble was over, described back pain (several surgeries/etc.) and myex-(30yrs younger) said upon hearing of the old guy's back issues 'welcome to my world' no empathy -all about her and who'd wanna be in the same league as a 70yr old person when you're just 40
-Made compliments to strangers about their stupid cars.
-Was visibly taken aback when a man whistled at my butt one night, I think she couldn't believe that someone else(me) could be found attractive. I remember her standing there trying to see if just per chance that guy could've seen her as it drove by and not me!
I thought..hrmmm that is odd, a normal g/f wouldda been like...hey I agree with that whistling guy! I think she was bummed out.
-Often I'd start a thought/sentence and get overtalked.
-At times she'd talk and talk about things I couldn't figure out the piont of, I thought it was maybe her way of trying to trust and open up..but it never got anywhere, never got deeper. I couldn't even think of a comment to make back to some of this stuff.

-sometimes her volume of voice would get loud too- and when I'd say..ok..I don't want to hear any more about ____something totally inane she'd say..'oh, it's all about you'

-got into some long contorted conversation(###$)-I was almost in tears realizing the futility of it. It was her explaining that I needed to have more self esteem I think- after she basically made a comment that hurt my feelings..and all I was thinking was, but a lover isn't supposed to be the one that makes you feel like a dummy.

-Called me for a booty call after an earlier kinda explosion at me. Then I come over, she takes a call from that codependent pal of hers..discusses her injury. Later I almost left when she told me I wasn't doing a massage 'right', I had picked the wrong music, then I had to move positions (right at a very CRUCIAL time). That was the day I should have left..and didn't.

- Was obsessive about tiny things, rolled up garden hose exactly in circles, would work on a small task that seemed like can't see the forest for the trees stuff to me.

-Very critical and touchy- yet I had anger management issues.

--blamed me for flowers dying even though I'd told her month ago that those can't handle hot sun. She said-'why didn't you tell me'? I of course said..'i did'.

--Seemed to forget she'd told me things or that I was with her

- her 'friends' are often around doing various 'chores' and tasks for her. I don't see what they get out of it.

- once i came over, was happy to see her, she opened the door and walked right past me pretty much. (focused on having to 'water the lawn' or something. I went in and sat down..for like 5mins..feeling like crap.

-She seemed to not know much deep stuff about her best friend, but portrayed her as a sister, to me it seems like time vs. quality and unhealthy using and dependence.

-Doesn't seem to have very much of a sense of humor at all

- 2x seemed to use sex to get my attention when she may have sensed my distancing

-Described her past relationships as 'short' lately sayis she feels 'so empty inside', yet when I asked about that comment just a week later, 1st she ignored my question, then I asked again after she deflected and rambled about another topic, that time she looked at me kinda blankly and said 'what do you mean' ..oh, then said that she meant 'just in relation to our relationship' not in general in her life, In other words...she has NO problems.
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Help! Sooooooooo any thoughts? What pisses me off most I think is her alleged 'friends' that don't call her on her crap after all these years. I want to at least offer a loving support and keep a distance..but am actually afraid to bring up any of her behaviour..because she truly scares me a tad*emotionally* -

I am saddened to watch a life go wasted like that. I wonder if she enjoys her life at all. All I think I can do is wish her the best and offer her love in an unconditional manner- or just NEVER write to her again.
I must be careful I know. Thanks to all-

"Help! Sooooooooo any thoughts?"

Well the thought I have is yeah she definitely sounds like an HPD.

"What pisses me off most I think is her alleged 'friends' that don't call her on her crap after all these years."

They really don't or is that just what she's told you about them?

If its her word then its probably a lie.

If its the verified truth by you speaking with these friends believing she's wonderful well then thats just an example of the HPD game in full effect.

HPD's are usually only able to keep friends for a long time with people that are as shallow as they are or weak males with avoidant personality disorder. Its like the HPD and the avoidant males balance eachother out in a way as friends with the HPD inviting all the attention and the avoidant shunning it.

So my belief is if these friends have never called her out on her treatment of them they either are as shallow as her and not noticed it or value her companionship when she offers it too much to rock the boat and risk losing her patronage in their group.

More serious friends or lovers take offense to the HPD's behaviour over time in realizing that there is no real attempt by the HPD to connect but rather to be attended to.

Thats when they offer to help the HPD overcome their problems, leave the HPD or offer to help but the HPD coldly turns them away as part of the HPD denial mechanism that will not allow them to believe anything is wrong with them.

"I want to at least offer a loving support and keep a distance..but am actually afraid to bring up any of her behaviour..because she truly scares me a tad*emotionally* when I've crossed that line b4.."

What are you afraid of her doing to scar you emotionally?

Breaking off all contact with you?

Or...

Saying visciously mean things to you that she knows will hurt you?

"I don't wanna hurt her ..or have her just say..'told you so' about me. THANKS AND SORRY FOR WRITING>>BUT I need TO GET THIS OUT.....!!"

Oh don't worry about hurting her.

Of the many HPD's I've talked to there are very few ways to hurt them and even if you hurt them in such ways the pain only lasts for about roughly 30 minutes if you're lucky.

Well for the first one I list the pain lasts about 30 minutes the 2nd one varies from HPD to HPD.

Ok here goes...

1. Make comments about them being unattractive (ugly or some such) or someone you both know (even yourself) being seen as more attractive than them by certain people.

2. If you're an HPD's partner suddenly leave them when the HPD believes you both are on top of the world in love and give no explanation for doing so. This reversal of the HPD's game can hurt them for months I've learned by talking to one HPD sufferer whose game backfired on her when a guy picked up something was wrong with her and left her unexpectadly to her after month's of his own pain but giving her no specific reason for leaving her.

This she told me hurt her for 6 months.

What's interesting is she didn't posit to me the guy's pain from their turbulent relationship as a possible reason he left her.

Its interesting because it shows the HPD's total lack of empathy in their inability to identify with the emotional pain of another by placing themselves in that person's shoes to borrow a popular phrase to explain empathy.

Hi X,
Interesting to hear avoidants survive longer than others with the hpd person. Is this based on observations/testimonials or on some publications? I'd love to learn if there exist pubs. re: this compatibility.

Hi rumin

Sounds like youve had a pretty rough time.
I wouldnt suggest any game playing. This lady is old enough to have some insight into the way her life is. If she does have problems such as a personality disorder, it is not something that you can fix, and is something that takes a lot of hard work and self realisation from the person concerned.

Playing games will just prolong the on off relationship that you are in. I am of a similar age to you, and know that I would not have the time or patience for such silly games.
Has she ever made any remarks that lead you to think that she realises she has problems??

You are going through a bitter time at the moment and im sure feel very stung. Its natural in this situation, to want her to have a 'realisation and awakening moment'. Unfortunately, its highly unlikely to happen.

Help! Sooooooooo any thoughts? What pisses me off most I think is her alleged 'friends' that don't call her on her crap after all these years. I want to at least offer a loving support and keep a distance..but am actually afraid to bring up any of her behaviour

The best thing to do, is walk away. You want to offer support - what kind of support? The only thing that she will recognise as support is to enable her behaviours. Should you constantly try to point out to her where she is going wrong, she will just come back at you with a defensive attitude. This is why personality disorders are so difficult to treat, as the person suffering does not see where they are going wrong - even if you, and everyone else in their lives walk away - due to their behaviours over time, they are left feeling inside like they are the victim as they just dont get where they are going wrong. Its very frustrating for those who truly care.

As for her friends, you state that she doesnt know them deeply. This is probably also true of them about her. They put up with her behaviours to a certain extent, and im sure she puts on a difference face when she is with them, but should they have to live with her day in day out, for a sustained period, and her facade starts to crumble, thats often when the relationships begin to dissolve. They probably think that she is fun, and a little excentric?

HPD in general tends to be when people seek attention, and will use manipulative behaviours to get it if necessary. Some use their sexuality others use exaggerated stories. Your comments about the focus on her health (or ill-health) seem to be a part of this - they always have it worse or more ailments, than anyone else, and most often its just that they need that there, there, there fix at the time. Im sure its frustrating when one minute they are lying in bed, so ill they cant move, then a few hours later, when something distracts/excites them, suddenly, they are fine and forgot that they were soooo ill earlier! The girl who cried wolf???
I dont know if this is ringing any bells with you or not.

I understand that although you have been hurt, you still care for this person and therefore want to help or fix or cure or try to show her how her life could be so much better if she could just...........

Many have felt this way on this board.
You now need to look after yourself. Take it as a learning curve and move on, unless she really does consider her problems and considers professional help.

Personality disorders are complex, and usually not something that can be diagnosed in one catagory.
If you are interested - a link for your information - not strictly to do with HPD but it does include the somatic traits:

http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/papd.htm

I appreciate your comments. It is very hard not to take it personally Iguess since I hoped that I could be someone special to her, someone that made her feel OK and good. It's however, a comfort in a way to know that I probably meant nothing much to her. It was so easy for her to come over and say farewell, and then ask if she can store things in my garage as if it's ?????

I really think she initially wanted to try, she says all the things she allegedly wants, a committed long-term relationship, etc. she began to tell me a tiny bit about her 'flaws' ....but I felt that there was a hollowness -I felt like she wanted warmth from me, but her actions were such...that it's VERY difficult to be warm towards someone who's criticizing you, not honoring your uniqueness..etc.
I stood there, she ignored me, then said she feels nothing for me.
How can you win that battle, ever?

She isn't a promiscuous(to my knowledge)HPD, rather, I think she gets kinda isolationist and hangs with her few friends that seem to cater to her needs without asking more of her. However I would imagine that she manipulates men that she works with by flirting/etc.
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It's just sad, and looking at her 'self' I don't see anything really to be 'in love with'..I guess I was loving her human condition, her essence which to me shouts FEAR! I hoped I could comfort her, let her cry like a baby to me then get better.
Unfortunately I just ended up sad and wasted about a year trying to get to the core while potentially passing by opportunity and love from others while I was all effed up about her and being bummed out.
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"Hi X,
Interesting to hear avoidants survive longer than others with the hpd person. Is this based on observations/testimonials or on some publications? I'd love to learn if there exist pubs. re: this compatibility."

A few things...

Observation on my part as this was true of my ex with our mutual AVPD friend, questioning other HPD's I've met about their friends and reading accounts from others who've dealt with HPD's about the HPD's friend base.

Not all HPD's have an avoidant friend per se but with many of them if they have only one friend that has managed to stick around who they've kept around them for some reason I've found that its usually either an AVPD male or a woman thats been depressed and a bit of a loner her whole life. These two kind of friends are non threatening to the HPD in not stealing her spotlight especially if she views her depressed woman friend as severely less attractive than she is.