Demonizing SUFFERERS of Personality Disorders

Having personality disorders is not fun, ever. I don't speak from first-hand experience; rather, I speak from the standpoint of a person who has had "intimate" relationships with personality disordered people: a mix of histrionic, antisocial, borderline and narcissistic individuals who were all very different, but with similar mindsets.

I really loved each of them, but they were not able to love their true selves. This made them lie, steal, cheat and harm me and many others around them. This made contradictory and confusing and chaotic. This made them angry, sad, scared, wild, manic and easily frustrated. But it didn't make them evil.

Even though I have had my life threatened by one, my name smeared by a couple, and friends stolen away by all of them, I still recognize that I am luckier than they are and therefore can't feel any long-lasting anger towards them. They were all products of nasty alcoholic parents, awful divorces, incest and abuse. Their whole lives were chaotic and secretive, faked and false. Perhaps the most compelling thing about them, the reason that I was ever friends with them in the first place, was their sensitivity. It's like their skin had been peeled off throughout the years, bit by bit-- they felt everything so deeply they had to turn off their feelings in order to live without chronic emotional pain.

All of them knew they were crazy. They wouldn't tell anybody else this but me, because they knew I wouldn't judge them or tell anybody else. They were afraid of being seen as defective. Though they pissed me off a lot, I did have a lot of admiration for them at the time. I saw them as strong survivors.

It's wrong to demonize those who suffer from personality disorders, because to do so only breeds ignorance of the way they operate and of their true natures. True, some of them are what society considers bad people, but does that mean we should shut them in a box and lock them away in the corners of our minds reserved for mystery? These people are human. They aren't aliens. They're not THAT MUCH of a mystery. And if you think that they are, perhaps you yourself suffer from a lack of empathy and/or imagination, and that might be worth examining.

i agree with you 100%! this is a great thread.

"Having personality disorders is not fun, ever."

Not entirely true.

I've spoken with an ASPD, a BPD and an officially diagnosed HPD and they have told me with their behaviour they've had a lot of fun at other people's expenses throughout the years but they did agree that despite their fun it is a pretty bad existance to be personality disordered.

I was most surprised to hear that from the ASPD as it is said in the literature they are quite happy with themselves and don't feel anything is wrong with them but unlike others in his category I do believe he was fighting his disorder at least a little bit.

It was probably the challenge for him of not being ASPD that leads him to fight it I reckon as ASPD's do love their challenges.

"All of them knew they were crazy."

They're not crazy. They are very sane. My friend who was also victimized by them told me she believes they are deficient and that is a more accurate description of them in my view. They are deficient in that they are either completely lacking in conscience in the ASPD's case or possessing a fractured conscience in HPD, NPD and BPD's cases.

"It's wrong to demonize those who suffer from personality disorders, because to do so only breeds ignorance of the way they operate and of their true natures."

Nobody here demonizes people for being personality disordered. We demonize those who hurt people. The personality disorders are no excuse for these people hurting others as even though their minds are disordered they do know better. Psychiatrists have said this and I for one agree with them.

"True, some of them are what society considers bad people, but does that mean we should shut them in a box and lock them away in the corners of our minds reserved for mystery?"

Not all of them as ASPD's are mostly the criminals of them that need to be locked up and as for the mind of course not.

(Note: I'm not saying because a person is ASPD they should be locked up as by all means if they are able to find their amusement outside of crime and hurting others more power to them)

Know your enemy .

However to address the rest of your question we should avoid the majority of them that are UNTREATED when discovered unless of course a person is a masochist and likes being used and exploited and you will be used and exploited if you hang around any one of these UNTREATED personality disordered people for long enough. That is their nature unfortunately. I have heard from my HPD and BPD friends that they have the power of decision over a lot of their harmful acts and are not mindless slaves to their disorder. Its just that for them its easier to let their disorders harmful behaviour win out as that gets rid of their anxiety and depression for a couple of days. Yes, they have a good reason to do what they do at times but since its often at the expense of hurting others I just cannot accept that.

"These people are human. They aren't aliens. They're not THAT MUCH of a mystery. And if you think that they are, perhaps you yourself suffer from a lack of empathy and/or imagination, and that might be worth examining."

Have fun with that attitude.

With your empathy in full effect for everyone you immediately meet before getting to know them fully an ASPD will one day slip in under the radar, become your "friend" and use you for all your worth.

Nope, what you said is not right at all when dealing with the personality disordered. Its good advice for dealing with non personality disordered people though.

Well and the treated BPD's and HPD's but never a malignant narcissist or ASPD as treatment tends to always fail for these two types.

If one wants to be friends with a personality disordered individual that person has to be as ruthless as they are and know what they want and know their limits clearly in that friendship relationship so they don't get exploited and clear boundaries have to be established.

Then and only then can you somewhat safely be friends with one.

I say somewhat because a determined ASPD will keep working on you and your boundaries until they break you down slowly and once your broken down they'll get what they want out of you and depart leaving you emotionally destroyed and possibly financially as well.

I'm not friends with any personality disordered people anymore. I avoid them as soon as I meet them, and I'm lucky to not have met any severely personality disordered people in a several years.

Some of the most compelling works of art revolve around tragically self-centered people who end up alone and hated. Art is the ultimate form of empathy, and I think it leads to understanding. As an artist myself, I value truth and understanding more than anything else. I've already been used by a sociopath, and now I can spot people with antisocial characteristics almost right away, but I don't regret any of my experiences with these people, because I learned from them and grew into the person I am now. I don't hate them. This is what I'm talking about. What's the use of hating a person who's ultimately going to lose? I believe in the death penalty. I believe in punishing people who do bad things. I just don't believe in flattening them into one-dimensional characters that are just viewed as bad and nothing else, because that's inhumane and does everyone harm. That's all I'm saying.

It just seems that a lot of people here engage in black-and-white thinking and believe that personality disordered people are just plain bad. Nobody's all bad or all good. That's not life. Still, people should be punished for bad behavior in order to protect the boundaries of others ... I do believe in this. The truth is terribly important, and people shouldn't live in lies, but some do, and they shouldn't get away with it. Nobody should talk to them. If the world were perfect, they wouldn't get any attention at all until they started behaving well again ... these people love negative attention just as much as positive attention, don't forget.

These people often end up bitter, alone and unhappy if they live that long AND IF THEY DON'T RECOVER. They know at some level that they've wasted their lives, that their dreams won't come true. They have addiction and lots of health problems associated with that. Whereas other people grow old with their loved ones: their spouses, or their children, or their friends and pets.

By the way, I do think they are crazy, and so do the ones I've talked to. They get misdiagnosed as having bipolar disorder because they are so impatient and chronically frustrated. Some of them even have really obvious mental problems, like temporary hallucinations and delusions. I think they're crazy, because who would CHOOSE to feel empty and awful on the inside? Who would want that? Nobody chooses that. These people are mentally ill. That's what I believe.

I'm not posting any more in this thread, but I hope others enjoy some discussion on the matter if they want.

Peace,
Blue Sky

"What's the use of hating a person who's ultimately going to lose?"

Yeppers... I'll agree with that. People with PDs didn't ask to be the way they are... they didn't drink their way there, they didn't eat their way into it, they didn't practice how to have a Personality Disorder until they were expert at it.

In a heartbeat, they'd be different, if they could.

They can't, and I feel empathy for them... because I can.

"I'm not friends with any personality disordered people anymore. I avoid them as soon as I meet them, and I'm lucky to not have met any severely personality disordered people in a several years."

So much for your speech about empathy and how they're humans too.

I'll be friends with an HPD, BPD or an NPD so long as they are either in treatment, have been treated or they seem to be in a transitional period where they want to learn about their disorder and try to understand it first before they get any help for it.

An ASPD though is just too dangerous to be friends with sadly.

"I can spot people with antisocial characteristics almost right away"

Careful you never get too confident in believing they are always easily spotted at first glance.

The world wide expert on them Robert Hare had been fooled by one even after years of research on them.

"I believe in the death penalty."

I don't. I think life in prison without the possibility of parole and making that person do something while on the inside that will benefit the world in some small way is a more just punishment than death. Plus if its a non who did the crime a life sentence gives them plenty of time to think about their crime and how wrong it was.

"I believe in punishing people who do bad things. I just don't believe in flattening them into one-dimensional characters that are just viewed as bad and nothing else, because that's inhumane and does everyone harm. That's all I'm saying."

Agreed, but again no one here hates the people with personality disorders for being personality disordered. We hate all people nons and personality disordered who continuously hurt people with no end in sight.

And again the personality disorders are no sufficient excuse for their harmful behaviour on others.

They absolutely have full control over what they do to other people.

The only thing they cannot control is the thoughts that come to them that come as the result of being disordered but again they can control whether or not to act on those thoughts.

I will repeat this until everyone finally gets it. This is what the mental health professionals have to say about the personality disordered about them not being insane and having control over their actions if not emotions (stimulation seeking impulses in the ASPD's case) and that control over their actions makes them able to be held accountable for what they do.

There are recovered HPD's and BPD's out there who took charge of their lives proving that it can be done for a personality disordered person and they no longer hurt people or themselves and though the chance for recovery is extremely poor for Narcissists and Anti Socials I have read of a few of those types becoming normal as well.

"It just seems that a lot of people here engage in black-and-white thinking and believe that personality disordered people are just plain bad."

You've probably been reading old posts when most of the victim posters arrived and our minds were hamburger and we were still trying to figure things out and comparing notes. Hardly a fair assessment of the current state of the board. Obviously to get a better more realistic picture of the current state you have to look at the date on posts before you read them and judge which sad to say isn't a big priority for well not just this HPD board in particular but this entire site. You've got people responding to posts from like two years ago on some boards thinking the original poster is still around and going to read the response. Geez people look at the dates of the post before you respond.

"By the way, I do think they are crazy, and so do the ones I've talked to."

Hey you're entitled to your opinion but the definition of crazy is insane and my opinion is in line with the professionals that these people are not insane.

The ones I've talked to told me that they know they think differently than others but they all save for the borderline told me they feel like they have a reasonable amount of control over their lives and what they do.

"They get misdiagnosed as having bipolar disorder because they are so impatient and chronically frustrated. Some of them even have really obvious mental problems, like temporary hallucinations and delusions."

Sounds like you knew a lot of severe Borderline Personality Disordered people. The hallucinations and delusions only accompany BPD in the most severe cases not ASPD, HPD or NPD.

"I think they're crazy, because who would CHOOSE to feel empty and awful on the inside? Who would want that? Nobody chooses that. These people are mentally ill. That's what I believe."

They don't choose to feel empty. With their conditions comes a lack of conscience, empathy and emotional awareness and without these things they naturally feel cut off and empty. Again deficient better describes them than insane.