I am HPD and have some thoughts

Hi mylife. I would really be interested in your answer to the above question from twocents. I am convinced that if I could learn more about HPD piont of view, I could stop hating my ex wife so much and help me to help our daughter. I just joined and started posting yesterday. I have extreme problems with my HPD ex, but I don't believe that she is intentionally evil. Any feedback would be welcome. thanks.

Hi dad,

No, your ex is not intentionally evil....

If a doctor made you touch your toes while facing away from your wife (sitting on an exam table), and then the doc tapped her knee and her reflex reaction caused her to kick you in the butt....

Did she kick you in the butt on purpose?

Your ex's brain reacts to things, much the way that a leg reflexes when tapped in a knee.

The brain is "plastic" to a large degree, and can be "rewired" to change... but in all honesty, it ain't easy.

And statistically... it's likely your daughter has some major issues, because half of her came from your ex.

But half of her came from you... that's your hope... and your daughter's.

I know Kontroller reads these, so let me talk to him, too. APD, HPD, and NPD haven't been studied much... BPD is the most studied, and that's where you find the biological cause to all PDs.

The frontal lobes of the brain act like a sponge... when you or I become excited by stimuli, our frontal lobes absorb it, and allow us to "count to 10", evaluating whether or not we truly are at risk.

The brains of Borderlines (without exception) don't absorb the anger, fright, or excitement.

It's not the frontal lobes (although you're right about the different reactions in that area) that cause the anger or fear. It's the middle brain, the old brain, the reptilian brain... the limbic system... that causes the triggering of those emotions. You're right that the frontal lobes don't absorb it; but I'd recommend you look more closely at the amygdala and hippocampus.

Because in studies on patients with BPD, those two structures are undersized - THAT is the only physical difference found in PD brains. The studies have been repeated at every major psych hospital around the world, and there have been no exceptions.

The frontal lobes behave differently; but they are not physically different from a "normal" person. Therefore, they cannot be responsible for the different behavior.

The physical differences in the brain are found in the amygdala/hippocampus.

Dad... your ex, for all practical purposes, is lost. The older someone with a PD gets, the more difficult it is for them to learn new things... old dogs, new tricks.

Your daughter needs your support, and without pressuring her (the last thing that would work) you should try to get her professional counseling with a therpist/psychiatrist team that is experienced with personality disorders. There are lots of hacks out there... find one with proven experience.

Your kid will never be "normal". I hate to say that; but the odds prove me right. But that doesn't mean she can't be helped, and improve - lots - if she's given a chance.

Love her, and show your love and support... that's all you can do.

And don't hate your ex... She might have been damaged by her childhood environment, or she might have been born with it. Regardless, she never chose to be the way she is.

Who in their right mind would?

I have had long PM discussions with Mylife and have her email address so if and when she responds to my latest email I will ask her to come and answer some questions you all have.

Anyway about the evil debate for the personality disordered I think Al Bernstein says it best in his Emotional Vampires book...

Immaturity Versus Evil

"Emotional Vampires are not intrinsically evil, but their immaturity allows them to operate without thinking about whether their actions are good or bad. Vampires see other people as potential sources for whatever they happen to need at the moment, not as seperate human beings with needs and feelings of their own. Rather than evil itself, vampires' perceptual distortion is a doorway through which evil may easily enter."

"Your kid will never be "normal". I hate to say that; but the odds prove me right. But that doesn't mean she can't be helped, and improve - lots - if she's given a chance."

I don't know about that.

I think the daughter could be made "normal" eventually.

This almost sounds like a cult like setting where the mother has become the David Koresh to this girl ie her entire focus as her source of happiness and stability so of course this girl not only needs to be removed from her mother but also she needs a good deprogrammer to show her exactly what has happened to her and make her realize just how bad a situation she was in.

Of course the deprogrammer in this case would take the form of a psychiatrist/counselor but I'm sure you get my meaning.

Twocents -

Lying comes naturally, and unfortunately, to most HPD's - or at least to myself. We lie because it helps us to DENY and AVOID conflict or interrogations. I do NOT make up blatant lies about things that arent true; however, I WILL lie about anything to avoid trouble or being "caught" in a situation.

In our minds, the lie is to protect not only ourselves, but those that we may hurt.......the intention is not to lie for the sake of lying, rather to AVOID dealing with the consequences of whatever we lying about.

I don't much give me lying a thought, because I justify it in my mind by telling myself that I am doing the right thing. Fact of the matter is that I can not handle the truth because the TRUTH has consequences - good and bad. If I were truthful with people than I would have to deal with the situation which i want to avoid. does this make any sense?

Sometimes I feel guilty, but more times than not, I brush it off and THANK the Lord that I have gotten past that story. We DENY and DENY the truth in our minds, to the point that we almost beleive our own lies to hold the truth. But really it is to protect ourselves from what we fear the most - being rejected, disliked, disowned, ridiculed, or shamed.....IF we told the truth about many of our actions we would be forced to reckon with our demons and the fact that maybe deep down inside we are living a life that constitutes one big lie.

hope this helps.

Thanks for the insight, Mylife... and please don't end your post with a frowny face. Your willingness to answer my question made me smile.

I have another question....

First... when I meet a woman (say, in a bar) I can generally size her up in a few minutes, having a good idea whether or not she'd be the kind of woman who I could "score" with that night, if I wanted to.

My question is this.... When you meet a man, are you able to judge whether or not he's the kind of man that you could manipulate? What qualities do you think all of the guys here have in common that made them attractive to HPD women?

(thanx for anything you care to share)

I'm sure Courtney Love has HPD, it's so obvious. she's like the best example of someone that has HPD like ever lol

Nah, a good case could probably be made for Courtney being a BPD but definitely not an HPD.

Why?

Well for one thing she's almost always dishevelled in appearance and an extremely beautiful and stunning appearance is very important to an HPD to have also about Courtney....heavy, heavy, heavy drug use and probably alcohol as well.

Also seems extremely unstable.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out she was/is a cutter which is also a BPD trait.

So yeah severe BPD case but definitely not HPD as HPD's are cool, calm and collected for the most part and though they can abuse drugs and alcohol like anyone else or a BPD for that matter typically they do not take this route.

They just get f***ed up on drugs and alcohol when they need to deny something or block something out so they can still feel like they are a perfect person whose never hurt anybody.

If not drugs and alcohol to feel good they will use a random sexual encounter instead.

KontrollerX wrote:Nah, a good case could probably be made for Courtney being a BPD but definitely not an HPD.

Why?

Well for one thing she's almost always dishevelled in appearance and an extremely beautiful and stunning appearance is very important to an HPD to have also about Courtney....heavy, heavy, heavy drug use and probably alcohol as well.

Also seems extremely unstable.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out she was/is a cutter which is also a BPD trait.

So yeah severe BPD case but definitely not HPD as HPD's are cool, calm and collected for the most part and though they can abuse drugs and alcohol like anyone else or a BPD for that matter typically they do not take this route.

They just get f***ed up on drugs and alcohol when they need to deny something or block something out so they can still feel like they are a perfect person whose never hurt anybody.

If not drugs and alcohol to feel good they will use a random sexual encounter instead.

yeah i agree that courtney probably does have bpd but i'm sure she has hpd too.. hpd people are usually very very energetic and lively and well courtney is probably the most lively celebrity there is. people with hpd like to draw attention by dressing inappropriately and well once again courtney's definetly the most "inappropriately" dressed celebrity there is. she's always taking off her clothes during her concerts and running down the streets naked, she even did a photoshoot for a magazine while being completely naked. and she's always flirting with everyone she sees, i mean she kept flirting with david letterman on his show.. like she'd be all like: "my whole life i've always wanted to flirt with you:)" dave: "oh well we don't need a show for that!" courtney: "i just.. i've always wanted to flirt with you" dave: "oh well that's very nice of you to say.. now let's move on shall we? so what's your life been like recently" courtney: "oh dave let's just forget about the crowd.. just.. this is it" dave: "oh how sweet.. ok now let's move on.." lol and courtney is extremely sexual and just CRAVES attention allllll the time, wherever she goes, and she's always asking people if they think she's "wacky", and if she's not doing that she's just talking and talking and talking and if the other person talks or the attention isn't on her she'll get really pissed. she once did a tour with marilyn manson and the crowd kept chanting "Marilyn manson!" during hole's(her old grunge band) and she got really pissed that the attention wasn't directed at her(i know because this is all the crowd chanted, they didn't say anything mean about courtney at all or throw anything at her or anything of that sort.. they just chanted marilyn manson's name) and told everyone that she "bet you all have a tiny dick". she's just a huge attention seeker and she's also very insecure(she doesn't seem it but she is and in fact i remember kurt cobain saying that before he married her he believed her to be extremely confidant and that after he married her he discovered bit by bit that she's a lot more insecure that he believed her to be before he married her) and paranoid which are some symptoms of hpd. and have you ever noticed how many guys she's been/slept with? and how fast she changes boyfriends? like once a relationship ends, she's already with another guy within 15 minutes! but i <3 her anyways

but i do agree with you on the bpd thing.. but i really do think she has both.. she fits both like really perfectly :\

Hmmm, damn good break down Zander.

Seems I focused too much on Courtney's instability on all counts and didn't notice the HPD side of her.

I agree with you now she seems to be both.

I have a good friend that has been officially diagnosed with HPD and BPD and is supposedly more severe according to her therapist with BPD yet it manifests itself in her trying to destroy herself through frequent suicide attempts/threats and substance abuse and acting overly nice.

Courtney I believe is different in what the moderator here Deehopes who is a BPD would call a rage stage BPD but it seems that Courtney has always been in that rage stage lol but maybe that rage is just an HPD attention seeking publicity stunt con and not the real trait of BPD that I thought it was.

Also the never ending stream of sex partners you brought up is also HPD but hey it goes with BPD as well.

Still good point on the crowd's reaction and Courtney's extreme attention seeking.

Again she probably is both.