Is my ex-girlfriend HPD (or just a little strange)?

I have read some of your stories, and my ex-gf seems to exhibit some similar qualities, but not all. She does not seem to need to be the center of attention. However, she thrives in social settings and loves socializing.

I dont know if she has HPD or some other disorder- I know she has issues, but is it as severe a HPD??? Can someone provide some insight or opinions?

Its a strange story...

The Beginning

She had a bf, but overtly flirted with me (at her bf'd b-day party!!)(though she would say that is just her personality), including asking me if I thought she was a pretty girl and telling me how cute i was and being flirty (red flag #1) Months later, she told me she had a crush on me (still with her bf) and that we should hang out (red flag #2). We started hanging out (just as friends), but I was enamored with her b/c she was very attractive, outgoing, and funny. We began spending more time and she told me about how her bf didnt want sex with her anymore. Eventually we started hooking up and having sex. (I know I deserved whatever happened to me - this girl had such a hold on me, it makes me sick to this day). The sex was great in many ways, though she could be a selfish lover, she was great at stroking my ego. She was adventurous and wild, and I ate it up. I thought I was just giving a horny, ignored girl some much needed loving.

So, we progressed like this to the point that I slept in her on weekdays. She would go to her parent's home for the weekend (or her bf's home - she lied to me about this), but we eventually began spend more weekends with me as her relationship w. her bf became very strained and apparently, he started an affair of his own (we discovered this after their eventual break-up). Neither of them broke it off for months, until I forced the issue with the girl (gave her an ultimatum). I had started to develop feeling for her and was convinced that she wouldnt leave her bf b/c she was so loyal even in the face that it was over. She admitted to having seperation issues and found it hard to let go of anyone (she tries to keep in touch with old bf's) and I accepted this as irrational but not a completely deplorable characteristic.

Throughout this period, she was emotional, cried often, complained that she felt like she was going crazy and "had two boyfriends." All the while, she insisted that she was only having sex with me. I was convinced that he was the one with the major problems and she deserved better. But I knew something was off about this girl.

The Relationship:
3 months later, they officially broke up and she was with me. Things started out well enough. She would refer to me as "the one". I found it premature, but I was flattered. I still had my guard up b/c i had seen how irrational and emotional this girl could be, but it slowly came down as we began to reach a comfort level.

However, I saw this girl lie and deny things to every single other person in her life. She also did not like to talk about our affair. In fact, she spun her previous break-up as he cheated on her (even though we learned of this only after they broke up) and used this as a rationalization for her behavior. She did not like to see her actions as wronging him in any way.

She exagerrated stories and conformed facts to fit her perception of reality. She was also very demanding, needy, and quick-tempered. She was also very jealous, but would flirt with other guys (she say she was just being friendly and I was being controlling). She would always brush off flirtatious behavior as being "social" and "friendly". In this period most things were great, but we had one big issue: the fact that she would be somewhat flirtatious with other guys (usually her friends, not strangers) and would sometimes ignore me, almost like she felt she had to be this way to entertain them. I found it inappropriate -she thought it was perfectly normal. (red flag #76) The other red flags (lying to others, denial, repression of events) did not concern me as much at this one.

The downfall:

It began with me catching her lying about meeting up with a guy. She previously expressed to me that she randomly ran into an old fling of hers (who had a fling and then ignored her in college) who I she had spoken of as the only guy that "ended it with her." She told me contacted him and wanted to meet up with him. She said she was just curious and that they were friends - however, from what i had heard they had a one-week fling during which time she had another boyfriend (in all of her stories involving cheating, she would always tell me they were on a "break") and then he tossed her aside and ignored her.

A few weeks later, she began acting very strangely and began talking about wanting to hang out with her friends and me to hang out with my friends (this is a girl that previously wanted to be with me all the time). That night, she was receiving many texts at dinner. Upon returning home she answered the phone (right in front of me) and I heard a male voice. She told him she would meet him up. Then, she told me she wanted to meet up some h.s. friends for an hour. She said they would be all girls and she would only be gone an hour. I let her go and stayed in her apt until she returned an hour later. I called her on her lie. She denied it but then said she lied b/c she knew i would not approve of her seeing him and she didnt think it was wrong and wanted to avoid a big fight. I believed her but was heartbroken. She had lied to everyone else around her, but this was her first big lie to me.

Then, she wanted space...she told me that she was having doubts about me being "it" for her. She said she wanted time to figure it out and "see it she missed me." I was shocked. I gave her space while I processed this. I asked her if she wanted to see other people. She said no. She just wanted time to think. We spoke on the phone during space, but I noticed she was less available. She always had stories. So, after a few days, I told her I couldnt handle space and we ended it. She continued to tell me that she wasnt sure but that b/c I was pressuring her she ended it. She said "her gut" was telling her that I wasnt the right guy for her. I asked her for reasons, but she never had any good reasons - it was her gut.

I was confused by the light switch ability to let me go when she previously couldnt let me go away for the weekend w/o calling me 20 times a day. I began to suspect that she was seeing someone else. Then, a mutual friend told me that while she was talking to me (and stringing me along) she was spending time with the same guy she lied to me about meeting up with. Her lies during this period were pervasive and her ability to deny the truth was impressive. I also found out she had met up with this guy a week before the breakup (she told me she was meetin a female friend). I was pretty sure she did something she regretted and began acting strangly after this day. But before this incident (that same night) she was sending me texts about how much she loved me, etc. Her friend starting telling me about how she was spending much time with this new guy. Every once in a while she would call me and ask if she thought we could ever get back together. Bitter and feeling jilted, I had very choice words for her that always left her crying. I would try to point out why she was a flawed human - she would deny her actions and say "things happen - thats life." I had no idea about HPD until a friend of mine told me he thought she might have it based on his interaction with a girl with HPD.

I've gone on for awhile, and I could go on even more. The girl has never been faithful to a boyfriend, jumps directly from relationship to relatiohship (she hasnt been "single" in over 7 years).

Does any of this sounds like HPD?
I actually was in love with this girl and she was a thoughtful, caring person during much of our relationship. I was angry/bitter and said some harsh things to her. She never likes talking about the details of our breakup shadiness (she calls me sick when I go over the details and question her about them) but she insists that we remain friends and that "fate" may bring us together in the end. I dont believe this drivel and am a strong proponent of accountability. Hence, I dont tell anyone about my heartbreak b/c in some way i feel l deserve it do my actions before we were "together." Anyways, this whole mess has left me scarred and confused.

"Does any of this sounds like HPD?"

Yes definitely.

The "thats life" and other assorted B.S you detailed from her matches my ex perfectly.

"I actually was in love with this girl"

No doubt you were.

They have a natural ability like all sociopaths to make you love them and inspire intense loyalty on your part.

"she was a thoughtful, caring person during much of our relationship."

No, that was just a part of her charm con.

Its very important you understand that and begin to actively try to believe it no matter how long that painful process may take.

"I was angry/bitter and said some harsh things to her. She never likes talking about the details of our breakup shadiness (she calls me sick when I go over the details and question her about them) but she insists that we remain friends and that "fate" may bring us together in the end. I dont believe this drivel and am a strong proponent of accountability."

Yeah its a load of B.S but the Emotional Vampires book does say HPD's don't know whats going to happen as in their moods change on the drop of a dime so she could become extremely infatuated with you again for no reason known to her.

"Hence, I dont tell anyone about my heartbreak b/c in some way i feel l deserve it do my actions before we were "together." Anyways, this whole mess has left me scarred and confused."

Well yeah it was pretty damn low of you to accept her offers of sex when you knew she had a boyfriend.

Still though had she taken responsibility for her own life to begin with and gotten treatment she wouldn't of placed you or many other men in this position I'm sure.

I actually do believe she was caring and thoughtful. She often bought me gifts, supporting through my education, and made genuine efforts to improve my life. This was hard for her, as she has materialistic tendencies and dating a student was a "step back" for her.


My initial feelings of anger and resentment have become pity and confusion. How could she have hid these traits so well for so long? Its so bizarre!!! It was one fateful weekend that sunk the whole relationship - how does someone just start lying and acting deceptive like that after a year of seemingly being happy?! When I ask her, she now tells me that "she always had doubts...and still isnt sure she made the right decision." However, I have no doubts that had I not caught her in the lie, and then been told ber her friends (ex-friends now) about her continued lying, that she would still be lying to me about many things to this day!!! Actually, she will only admit to those things which I can prove 100% and still denies things that i cannot prove (but have strong suspicions about)!!!

I thought she just had a problem with lying and was a bit out of touch w. reality at times...but are her issues much deeper than that???

I always had strong reservations about her being a potential wife (too fickle, demanding, quick-tempered, irrational, etc.) and mother (far too selfish, capricious, and short-sighted.) She often said unusual things and offensive things to me. She was far too impressed by superficial qualities (financial success, nice cars, clothes/style, grooming) and not very interested in deeper things like philosophy, politics, theories, etc.

But she has a successful career working as an investment banker, People liked her (especially men) and she makes a great first impression. She has a great ability to be phoney which always impressed me but caused me concern. She could lie through her teeth like no toher I have ever seen! She could also deny/repress the truth - in fact, it was of her philosophy of life...why think about things that bother you? But at the same time, she dwelled on decisions she made in life and often felt like she wasnt successful enough. She was disappointed she wasnt married yet (she is only 26!); she was always disappointed whenever she didnt get a promotion or the bonus she expected. She had little patience and always expected so much - I just thought she was very ambitious!

She was also very jealous of others in a very strange way. For example, when her best friend starting dating a very successful and nice guy, she was jealous b/c she had always been the one with the "functional relationship" (I guess she chose to repress her previous cheating). These feelings eventually came to pass, but i found it strange in the first place. Her friend had previously been in a terrible relationship w/ a cheating, dirty slimebag and everyone else was happy that she finally found a decent guy.

I had always been a very supportive and understading boyfriend to her. However, she was very quick to get angry with me over certain things (I have a bad habit of forgetting keys, etc.) If i ever diagreed with her, she would accuse me of "awlays disagreeing with her" (in truth, I often kept many comments to myself just to avoid a conflict).

So - knowing this, should I advise her that I think she has HPD? Or should I just steer clear of her altogether?

I really do want her to get help if possible. I dont expect it to go well, as I sued to half-joke that she needed therapy and upon breaking up told her she needed therapy.

She says she was not "crazy" and that therapy is for "crazy people"...strangely, her mother is a psychiatrist?!?! How can someone be so ignorant?

I too think she suffers from Histrionic Personality Disorder. Although you've told us quite a lot about your relationship with her and the events that took place in it, you've not described her personality in much detail. However, it is still possible to evaluate her personality against the DSM criteria:

(i) interaction with others is often characterised by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behaviour

spiralingconfusion wrote: overtly flirted with me (though she would deny it or say that is just her personality)...
She was also very jealous, but would flirt with other guys (though would say she was just being friendly and that I was trying to be controlling). When I would point out that the guy was probably interested in her (no doubt b/c she gave some flirtatious signal that she claims she is not aware of), she would accuse me of being jeaous and controlling. She would always brush off flirtatious behavior as being "social" and "friendly".

It is of course well-known that HPDs treat their flirtatious behaviour as not sexual or flirtatious per se but as a way of socialising.

(ii) consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self or 'overconcern with physical attractiveness' (ICD criterion)

spiralingconfusion wrote: including asking me if I thought she was a pretty girl as her bf's b-day party and repeating telling me how cute i was and being flirty.

(iii) considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are

spiralingconfusion wrote: 3 months later, they officially broke up and she was with me. Things started out well enough. She would refer to me as "the one". I found it premature, but I was flattered.

(iv) shows self-dramatisation, theatricality and exaggerated expression of emotion

spiralingconfusion wrote: I still had my guard up b/c i had seen how irrational and emotional this girl could be, but it slowly came down as we began to reach a comfort level.
She exagerrated stories and conformed facts to fit her perception of reality. She was also very demanding, needy, and quick-tempered.

Furthermore, she displays all the other characteristics that HPDs have: pathological lying, forgetting details, being unaware of the motivations of their own actions, and having numerous shallow relationships. She may even be a psychopath (check here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopath ... 28PCL-R%29)

As for the other traits of HPD, she may also have a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail. Did she often express very strong opinions or emotions but when you asked her about her reasons, there were none or they were very vague?

(vi) displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions

spiralingconfusion wrote:I always had strong reservations about her being a potential wife (too fickle, demanding, quick-tempered, irrational, etc.)
... She was far too impressed by superficial qualities (financial success, nice cars, clothes/style, grooming) and not very interested in deeper things like philosophy, politics, theories, etc.
...She has a great ability to be phoney which always impressed me but caused me concern.

Some things that make me thing she is not histrionic:

1. She doesnt seem to need everyone's attention all the time.

2. Her mother is a psychologist and has not diagnosed her

3. She is not promiscuous. Though she has cheated on boyfriends, the cheating usually led to another long-term relationships. At age 25, she only had sex with 4 guys before me[She could have lied to me about this].

4. She does not seem to be an uncaring, 100% selfish person. She seems to genuinely care about some others, but seems that she sometimes cant escape the self-centered view of the world.

Some things that may show HPD:

1. She represses and denies unpleasant memories regarding her own behavior.

2. Dramatic, emotional, affectionate

3. Pushy, demanding - had to have things her way

4. Impatient - needed things done right away

5. Quick tempered - little things can set her off (leaving shower curtain unclosed; leaving trash in room)

5. Double standard - judges others but not herself harshly

6. She had a strange childhood where her father wasnt around for the first few years. her parents had a strange relationship where they were not in love but lived together. Her mother was unhappy and took the children to live with some other man for a little while she was very young.

7. Her sister also has some major issues - very low self-esteem even though she is a gorgeous, ph.d with a successful career.[/b]

Is is possible to be partially HPD or half- HPD?

spiralingconfusion wrote:Some things that make me thing she is not histrionic:

1. She doesnt seem to need everyone's attention all the time.

They don't seek attention all the time. If they did they'd look 100% crazy. The DSM criterion says "uncomfortable in situations where she is not the centre of attention". I think this is not a good way to put it. The ICD has a better phrased criterion: "continually seeking excitement and situations where she is the centre of attention". What this means is that although they don't always want to be the centre of attention, they love being the centre of attention. Even if they're just engaging in one-2-one conversation, they never attempt to establish an emotional connection. All their talk is either one-sided dramatic speech or speech intended to impress you or please you.

spiralingconfusion wrote:2. Her mother is a psychologist and has not diagnosed her.

Most personality disorders are very difficult to treat and require years of constant psychotherapy. That is why psychiatrists never bother to diagnose them. Her mother might be a psychologist but she most probably doesn't know much about PDs or doesn't know her daughter enough!

"Most personality disorders are very difficult to treat and require years of constant psychotherapy. That is why psychiatrists never bother to diagnose them. Her mother might be a psychologist but she most probably doesn't know much about PDs or doesn't know her daughter enough!"

What bane said is a definite possibility and another I read that is far scarier is that people with these sociopathic Cluster B Personality Disorders are so skilled at manipulation whether conscious or unconscious they fool even trained professionals at times about whats really wrong with them because they are pathological liars and as such lie so much and so well that their withholding of information keeps the service provider from getting to whats really wrong with them never suspecting that the girl or guy that is infront of them being treated is a sociopathic pathological liar.

So they might end up with a simple diagnosis of anxiety or some form of depression but unfortunately due to their withholding of information never get to the root of those problems which more often than not has been caused by their PD.

Even with this girl's mother being a psychologist you have to take into account that the people HPD's are most dangerous to are their lovers and friends. Those are the two groups that eventually see her darkside but I think just like a casual aquaintance all the mother see's in her HPD daughter psychologist or not is what the HPD wants everyone to see upon first meeting her.

An extroverted, happy and kind bubbly young lady and thats that. Oh what a laugh!

Also even if the mother knows or suspects by being a psychologist that her daughter is an HPD maybe the mother judges that either the disorder isn't effecting her or others to horrible degrees (erroneously of course) so doesn't say anything or doesn't want to pin her daughter down with a diagnosis as maybe she figures that will hurt her daughter's job chances in a certain field or something like that.

An extroverted, happy and kind bubbly young lady and thats that. Oh what a laugh!

This is defintely how the girl would describe herself. And for a while, its how I would have described her too.

Thank you guys for explainin the center of attention aspect of HPD. This girl wasnt the type who danced on bars (in fact she would look down on these girls), but she defintely needed all of my attention and did not shy away from being the center of attnetion in group settings.


Also even if the mother knows or suspects by being a psychologist that her daughter is an HPD maybe the mother judges that either the disorder isn't effecting her or others to horrible degrees

I think that her mother may be in denial about her problems (and possible the cause of her problems). Her mother has subjected both of the daughters to unhealthy criticisms and has made offensive comments in the past. Also, she carried on affiar with another man while the two girls were very young. Her relationship with her husband has been dysfunctional.

Ironically, despite the fact that the mother carried on an affair in the early years of her marriage, both daughters seems to be decidely on the mother's side regarding any problems in the marriage. I find this strange, b/c my father had an affair with my mother, and I will always blame him for his actions.


How does the fact that this girl never breaks up with a guy until she has another guy lines up tie into HPD (if at all)?

She seems to be a serial monogamist, except that she has also cheated on every single one of her boyfriends (in some form of fashion.) I thought HPDs were promiscious and carried on numerous affiars.

She seems like she has to be in a relationship (which she ultimately becomes disastisfied with). She has a fear of abandonment and ending up alone, but also, maybe this plays into her need for attention. As KX emplained, she may only need this attention from a single person, rather than a room full of people.

"How does the fact that this girl never breaks up with a guy until she has another guy lines up tie into HPD (if at all)?"

It ties in with the dual diagnosis of Histrionic Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

When someone has one personality disorder I've learned its highly likely that they have another personality disorder as well or some other kind of disorder.

The reason she would never break up until she has another man to prey upon is she needs to ensure a constant flow of narcissistic supplies to herself so she can keep functioning.

She needs to be assured that she will have a man to praise her, give her undivided attention, sex, love, money, etc its all the need for narcissistic supply.