It's not always our fault

Right.

I don't ask you to IDEALIZE me. I'm just trying to survive in this world with the few skills that I have.

You bought into it.

But in the end, I'm the one that suffers. I have to put out a false face to even be accepted, wanted.
You think I'd be desired if people REALLY knew me, and what I struggle with?

In the end, I just DISAPPOINT. I have to deal with the BACKLASH. The ANGER because I'm an actual person with actual problems. I didn't live up to your fantasy.
How dare you?!!! Judgemental pricks. Who is the one that hurts the most?

exquisitecorpse wrote:But in the end, I'm the one that suffers. I have to put out a false face to even be accepted, wanted.
You think I'd be desired if people REALLY knew me, and what I struggle with?

You think you're the only one who's ever been there ?

exquisitecorpse wrote:In the end, I just DISAPPOINT. I have to deal with the BACKLASH. The ANGER because I'm an actual person with actual problems. I didn't live up to your fantasy.
How dare you?!!! Judgemental pricks. Who is the one that hurts the most?

Has it ever occurred to you that it has nothing to do with people's stupid little nonlike fantasies and a lot more to do with 2 simple things -

1. action and reaction. Your action hurts or angers another person, they react.
2. the other person's anger issues.

As far as "HPD" goes I'd seriously doubt people who end up dating seriously disordered people are "Nons"

But then you say "how dare you", brand the person judgemental, group them with all the "normal" people, and insist that your reality hurts most (even if its possible it does, that isn't the point I'm making here, also not something I'm trying to hammer down if you feel that way), but when you accuse them of not allowing you to be an actual person with actual problems, I guess technically you'd be doing the same to them.

exquisitecorpse wrote:You think I'd be desired if people REALLY knew me, and what I struggle with?

Honestly, have you tried it? You may yet be surprised.

exquisitecorpse wrote:Who is the one that hurts the most?

Very subjective. Let's not all start producing pain scales.

The label "PD" has a lot of negative connotations.

Suppose instead we met someone with the following traits -

o They've been over-eating since an early age, so long they're not even aware anymore that their desire for food is excessive as compared with the norm.

o They literally don't feel good about themselves unless they are eating.

o When they go out on a dinner date, they are constantly distracted by the food others are eating around them.

o When they go out on a date or with a loved one, if some strangers offers them food they entirely forget about the person they are with in favor of a food opportunity.

o When they go to a restaurant, they are willing to trade a lot of money for extra servings (and confuse that the person serving them 'likes' them, and is bring extra food out of caring, with the fact that the person wants more $)

o When you are alone with them or trying to do an activity, they're constantly distracted by the want to eat, and frequently making demands that you feed them.

o When in a family style setting, they take more then their 'fair' share of the food, and literally get upset at others who want a fair share, and especially upset with others who have a similar coping mechanism and take more than their fair share.

o The may have some friends who also over eat, who support them, who they go on binges with together, causing others in their life great concern.

--

Odds are most people would go okay, well eating food is normal, healthy, not a problem. This kind of behavior is an extreme though, and the ironic thing is it's reasonable that the people who do want to care about a person like this to ask 'what's really wrong that you're so dependent on food to feel good?' Ironic because it's not the people who will give someone like this more food for $ who care.

The analogy is not perfect, because obviously anyone that eats too much will eventually show some visible (physical) symptoms (e.g., weight gain, health problems, etc), unlike PDs that are hidden from plain site, but on a very simple level, wondering what's wrong that you need so much of X, Y, or Z to feel good remains a fair question.

If you substitute an excess want for food with an excess want for attention, and trades with others involving money for food with trades involving sexual innuendo for attention, well you get the idea.

So no, it's not really anyone's fault that if they having a coping mechanism, but coping mechanisms are ways to mask deeper issues, and both the deeper issues and coping mechanisms often do have real negative affects on self and relationships.

katana wrote:As far as "HPD" goes I'd seriously doubt people who end up dating seriously disordered people are "Nons"

Define "seriously disordered people". Please also elaborate on the foolproof method a "non" should use to identify "seriously disordered people" BEFORE the damage is done.

Thanks

When you come to think about it, all of us are small creatures in a gigantic universe. We have no choice over the very stuff we are made of, and later as developing children we are all at the mercy of forces largely beyond control. Yet as the sovereign beings we become in adolescence and adulthood we make choices and decisions that no one else can be held accountable for.

Some people with PDs spend "downtime" in substantial guilt and self-blame. But I think any competent therapist will quickly work to deconstruct excessive guilt and self blame in the client, and instead replace it with taking responsibility over one's life and decisions.

Responsibility, unlike guilt and self-blame, is a healthy forward-looking attitude that accepts and acknowledges mistakes, but responsibility is not condemned nor otherwise stunted by mistakes...responsibility builds upon the experience of past mistakes, but ultimately it transcends them.

tran•scend (trænˈsɛnd)

v.t.
1. to rise above or go beyond the ordinary limits of; overpass; exceed.
2. to outdo or exceed in excellence, extent, degree, etc.; surpass; excel.
3. to be independent of or prior to (the universe, time, etc.).
v.i.
4. to be transcendent or superior; excel.
[1300–50; Middle English < Latin trānscendere to surmount =trāns- trans- + -scendere, comb. form of scandere to climb]

lol I really like the word transcend. Quoted from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/transcend

orion8591 wrote:Responsibility, unlike guilt and self-blame, is a healthy forward-looking attitude that accepts and acknowledges mistakes, but responsibility is not condemned nor otherwise stunted by mistakes...responsibility builds upon the experience of past mistakes, but ultimately it transcends them.

That's a good post.