non personality disorder

when i study history, politics etc, my reaction is : omg DX people are so cold blooded and unbelievably cruel, selfish, mean


For example I am reading this article,

When Columbus and his sailors came ashore, carrying swords, speaking oddly, the Arawaks ran to greet them, brought them food, water, gifts. He later wrote of this in his log:

They ... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for the glass beads and hawks' bells. They willingly traded everything they owned... . They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features.... They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane... . They would make fine servants.... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want.

These were signs of land. Then, on October 12, a sailor called Rodrigo saw the early morning moon shining on white sands, and cried out. It was an island in the Bahamas, the Caribbean sea. The first man to sight land was supposed to get a yearly pension of 10,000 maravedis for life, but Rodrigo never got it. Columbus claimed he had seen a light the evening before. He got the reward.

But too many of the slaves died in captivity. And so Columbus, desperate to pay back dividends to those who had invested, had to make good his promise to fill the ships with gold. In the province of Cicao on Haiti, where he and his men imagined huge gold fields to exist, they ordered all persons fourteen years or older to collect a certain quantity of gold every three months. When they brought it, they were given copper tokens to hang around their necks. Indians found without a copper token had their hands cut off and bled to death.

While the men were sent many miles away to the mines, the wives remained to work the soil, forced into the excruciating job of digging and making thousands of hills for cassava plants.

Thus husbands and wives were together only once every eight or ten months and when they met they were so exhausted and depressed on both sides ... they ceased to procreate. As for the newly born, they died early because their mothers, overworked and famished, had no milk to nurse them, and for this reason, while I was in Cuba, 7000 children died in three months. Some mothers even drowned their babies from sheer desperation.... in this way, husbands died in the mines, wives died at work, and children died from lack of milk . .. and in a short time this land which was so great, so powerful and fertile ... was depopulated. ... My eyes have seen these acts so foreign to human nature, and now I tremble as I write. ...

Las Casas tells how the Spaniards "grew more conceited every day" and after a while refused to walk any distance. They "rode the backs of Indians if they were in a hurry" or were carried on hammocks by Indians running in relays. "In this case they also had Indians carry large leaves to shade them from the sun and others to fan them with goose wings."

The Spaniards "thought nothing of knifing Indians by tens and twenties and of cutting slices off them to test the sharpness of their blades." Las Casas tells how "two of these so-called Christians met two Indian boys one day, each carrying a parrot; they took the parrots and for fun beheaded the boys."

'When we read the history books given to children in the United States, it all starts with heroic adventure-there is no bloodshed-and Columbus Day is a celebration.'

^actually this kind of thing is common in history etc, people enslave some other people and treat them INCREDIBLY emapthyless....
Domination, Obeidance, Violence, was social norm at the time. Women were seen as some objects and to follow men's whatever order obediently, if she speaks out for her right she was seen as 'personality disordered'.



It's incredibly how normal people so easily adopt whatever social norm and firmly believe in it.
I read that Marilyn monroe refused to say 'i'll forever obey my husband' in her wedding for she was a feminist.....

i am kind of always stubborn and try to follow my own rules. For example people say i should treat special people differently from strangers. But in my moral dictionary it is moral to treat people equally. best friend or not best friend. I am sure that when our non-ancestors could be so easily so cruel to strngers like 'slaves' our hpd ancestors would have been like(even though trying to get attention) 'oh those poor slaves !!! :'( :'( :'(' and saved some of them
because we feel intimacy with the most alien and total strangers.

this guy has been rlly nice to me but ever since i rejected him and told i have bf he has showed a remarkable change in attitude. He is a nice man and i think that is his 'boundary' setting.
yea.. the freakin non boundary....their empathy.... I get really confused about it whenever i read human kind history......
isn't their empathy simply following what societies tell them to do?
:/
i have seen nons bullying some kid in school numerous times and i'd be only person who doesn't try to 'follow the social trend' but try protecting the poor kid. Those girls/boys who bullied other student had normal empathy as i've seen how they act in their relationship, to their best friends,
which was a total shock to me 'god that's all fake persona. she cries cuz her long dated bf dumped her? some guy loves me so much ? i know what u guys were like when u bully someone or how uncaring you were, you guys are not an emotional person, i don't buy that s*it'

kohut said npds are bullied in class when they are young cuz they are bullied by students, for npds family is lots of times abnormal
i know some N friend who was truly bullied all time... and he said everone in his class was like soulless monsters, and i quite agree. as i grow up, as i went to elementary-high school, i saw how those so called 'nons' are so fckin cruel. i might cheat but i've never bullied anyone or let such immoral thing happening in where i am.(i think one thing being hpd, i was popular/persuasive so i could persuade people to stop doing immoral s*it, can't really expect normal ppl to do the same thing cuz they don't have same ability as mine usually)

yYyYy wrote:It's incredibly how normal people so easily adopt whatever social norm and firmly believe in it.
I read that Marilyn monroe refused to say 'i'll forever obey my husband' in her wedding for she was a feminist.....

I still haven't heard why people think Monroe had HPD.

yYyYy wrote:i have seen nons bullying some kid in school numerous times and i'd be only person who doesn't try to 'follow the social trend' but try protecting the poor kid.

This actually isn't how I've heard pwHPD are "supposed to" act. ?

lets not focus on monroe, if we start discussing if what pd she has we can't reach 100% agreement ever.

u know hpd try to celebrate birthday of her friend who she doesn't know well etc,
and her friends are 'ugly' because she doesn't want 'competition'
her emotion is exaggerated and how a person with exaggerated emotion would do something like 'bullying'?
you know how hpd bfs complain 'she doesn't empathize with me but empathize with total strangers/beggars on the street it makes me angry'


i really think whenever if have chance
non men would try to do immoral things. enslave. discrimate. dominate women. concubines. sex slaves. objectification. just like they did through the most~ of histories.
how recent it is that women are treated equally as men? even in 50s monroe's time women were 'posession' of men and it was social norm

it's kind of hilarious that men make certain type of 'expectation' from women and whenever women don't follow it they blame women to be like 'insane'

for example in 21c, hpds. men want to bind women to the 'eternal romantic relationship' and tell us we have 'personality disorder' but we wouldn't be able to do really 'personality disordered cruel' behaviors onto others like men did to slaves, or colonized people, etc.

you just think you are nothing like that because you are in a situation which you 'cannot' do those bc of 'social norm' of the moment
and again blaming hpds for being 'disordered'

hpds are beautiful &amiable to new people and so lots of men like hpds and some better man than you appear frequently in hpd's life and take hpd from you
and is that really personality disordered of hpd? i'd say that's just a natural behavior of someone who is born beautiful/charming. plus if a hpd is only nice a little bit men feel all special and start thinking she 'seduced' him


verbal abuse, lies,manipulation? that is npd/bpd qualities. but except those what is left to blame in hpds?

'oh my god that hpd is showing her tits there that is VERY *inappropriate*! she should do it to just her husband... she is trying to seduce that man, very *inappropriate* she is married! Why is she so noisy and overly emotional? *disordered*!'

if i say this 'non men' always argue by telling me 'if your bf does the same thing wouldn't you be hurt?'
i might be, but because the man does something i wouldn't like, should i call him 'disordered'?
like he might have cheated but what if he himself is really nice person with independent strong sense of morality?

do not tell me i am disordered based on my behaviors are, i'am pretty much passive aggressive here, men have all the absurd opinions on hpds so i am willing to be what they imagine hpds are like to just be passive aggressive

capitalism/democracy works out because it does not try to 'fix' human nature like marxism etc did. it just accepts that human are greedy and motivated by narcisstic incentives.
if you want 'hpd' to work out too i think you should 'accept' their nature, like rather than telling them to be 'satisfy themselves in a boring relationship forever' or 'cover up their beautiful body' but tell them how to avoid mentally abusing someone, or lying/cheating out of fear of directly dumping a man, or understand how men will usually accept their words/behaviors

hpds are often surprised when men try to have sex with them(they misunderstand hpds)
or men think hpds are in love with them(just because hpds poured lot of attention/admiration which she does really to be nice)

those are 'differences' than 'disorders'. men misunderstand hpds mind 3000% time therefore disastrous outcome is made.

some ppl argue that 'hpds are disordered to not have female friends'
but i read in psychology book about how 'pretty girls' are more insecure than 'not pretty girls' because like women have strong jealousy lots of times that they will be kind of mean to 'pretty girls' lots of times, do not accept them as a close friend, nice to them only outwardly, try to find flaws, jealous, when pretty girl does something they say she is being femme fatal, etc

it's only natural hpds will try to protect themselves from possible danger by not being close with females too often

and males don't understand how female friendship work so they are like hpds are disordered cuz they don't have same sex friends like males do

yyyyy -

Yes, you are right. One of the aspects I do like about evolutionary psychology is that people aren't painted as essentially 'good' or 'bad'; they are first and foremost survivors. Nature is what it is, and we people are inclined to go along with the group, even if that means being cruel.

On the other hand we do have the intellectual capacity to be more; that's entirely up to us to choose to simply survive, or to be something more. Problem is it's really hard to judge people who grow up in different societies and in the past. We're all inclined to follow the group to some degree. The society as a whole has to help each other to rise above our primal survival instincts too.

p.s. ...even choosing to be an individual, to avoid group think, doesn't necessarily mean people will choose in ways that don't hurt others. Take sociopaths who do what they want, then end up harming others - individuality is important to break free of group think, but without a moral compass too, can end up even worse than group think.

Women's treatment rates for mental
illness are higher than men's. This article argues that
one explanation for this sex difference is that masculine-
biased assumptions about what behaviors are
healthy and what behaviors are crazy are codified
in diagnostic criteria and thus influence diagnosis
and treatment patterns.
...
What is the significance of women's higher
rates? As discussed earlier, Chesler (1972) asserts
(and the Broverman et al. [ 1970] study supports the
assertion) that one reason healthy women are labeled
disordered is that they refuse to play the traditional
female role. But Franks and Rothblum
(1983) claim that women are disordered; that is, they
are depressed, agoraphobic, and experience sexual
dysfunction.

In other words, not only are
women being punished (by being diagnosed) for acting
out of line (not acting like women) and not only
are traditional roles driving women crazy, but also
male-centered assumptions—the sunglasses through
which we view each other—are causing clinicians
to see normal females as abnormal.

Marcie Kaplan

yyyyy -

You are no doubt correct that psychology and disorder diagnosis are heavily male biased.

So in my country there was a long bloody civil war over the matter of slavery. Here is what we know (simplified and generalized) -

A large group of people grew up with slaves, families, men, women, and children profited off having others as slaves.

A large group of people opposed slavery, and fought and suffered many casualties too, fighting for a cause.

Probably 100% of the slaves would 100% agree they were being wronged.

People can do some terrible things; likewise people sometimes also fight for what they truly believe in.

What we know for sure though is that nobody who owned slaves would disagree with the slaves, IF the shoes were on the other foot. And that's how you separate out what people really believe vs them just wanting what they want because it's good for them.

You know it's very likely that the slavers said too 'just accept us for us, this is who we are', but that's not the end of it. Others are allowed to have an opposing view, and here is the difference (and it is HUGE!) -

Those who opposed slavery had a belief system which is consistent with what they'd want for themsleves.

Those who were in favor of slavery did not.

The same applies to cheating, and in theory, to what should separate 'disordered' from healthy thinking. If a cheater would not like to be cheated on, then their belief system is inconsistent and it's just never going to happen that everyone just accepts 'but that's me, accept me for who I am'

You are right though. People can be abusive, especially in groups. They do it for the same reason. Befitting at someone else' expense, and selective empathy. Unfortunately too, often it's the relatively few who utterly lack empathy, and the rest follow along like lemmings because they are benefiting too, and don't have to feel entirely guilty since someone else started it or 'makes them do it'. Victim think, giving into the group for benefit, or out of fear of backlash - unfortunately sadly very common.

p.s. the short version is would you be happy if everyone strived to be HPD? If the answer is yes, then your belief system is consistent. If it's no then that's a red-flag that your belief system is inconsistent. Non's on the other hand generally do wish others believed/acted as they do.

yYyYy wrote:capitalism/democracy works out because it does not try to 'fix' human nature like marxism etc did.

capitalism and marxism are not the only systems yyy. and there are far more equal societies than ours (cp. Amish) that are also far happier, so those are the principles of marxism successfully at work. what has historically shown not to work (so far) are applications of marxism at the level of the nation. but small scale societies do very well and even better than us which apply marxist (inadvertently, I'm presuming) principles, in terms of greater happiness for all.

and capitalism does try to fix human nature. capitalism severely undermines social relationships, which humans badly need for psychological health and happiness as they are the most social animals on earth. capitalism makes people's self-worth contingent on things that don't really matter, things which undermine happiness and make many people suffer needlessly.

there is nothing 'natural' about capitalism. and all systems suppress/promote different aspects of human nature. the aim is to arrive at a system that promotes and suppresses the right combination of aspects of human nature to arrive at maximal happiness.

if capitalism was that system we wouldn't have mental illness to the extent that we do

Crystal

Even if you dislike capitalism, before you throw it away, the history of therapy and research in psychiatry and psychology is embedded in Western capitalism...research and therapy costs money, and the people who do it aren't going to do it for free.

In contrast, in communist societies there were (and are) gulags for those with PDs and mental illnesses.

BTW, wouldn't you find small-scale traditional communal societies like the Amish boring? Or have you changed?

yep, nons will almost always just do what the group tells them and not try to think for themselves. it really shows how far society has come and how enlightened we are now. people were crazy motherf*ckers back then. pretty depressing to read about, though.