Partially HPD? or a "waking" HPD?

I have come to realize that I'm not exactly normal. I'm a 30-year-old woman who is often very childlike, acts impulsively, loves to tell jokes and be with people. I find it very hard if not impossible to hide my feelings even in situations where it would be really bad to show them (like at work). It is hard for me to be alone and I crave for love not only from my partner (when I have one) but from my friends and family, too. I suppose everybody does that but for me the need to be with people and to be loved is much stronger than for anybody I know. Still, I am able and willing to love friends and family very strongly, stand by them when they need me, give love and support.
My mother has been an alcoholic as long as I can remember and ever since I was 4 I have taken care of my younger siblings. My mum deserted us and we were left with our distant father and a stepmother with NPD.
I have always been over-emotional and oversensitive. I cry easily, I laugh easily. Humor is one of the ways for me to cope in this life. I love people easily as friends but have difficulties with loving a partner in a different way. I ended up marrying a man who was completely unsuitable for me and have come to realize this was due to me craving for love and acceptance and fearing to be alone or in a real, dangerous relationship. I needed security and really confused that for love.
I suppose these characteristics would qualify me for a HPD sufferer.
BUT: I am not jealous - I actually enjoy having interesting, engaging people with me. I am very often the centre of attention but am very happy if someone else takes the centre stage - I sometimes wish I had more open and sociable friends so that I could listen more and talk less. I am also happy when my friends get attention from men. I love to laugh at other people's jokes, too. I am totally incapable of lying in social situations, I adore the theatre and drama but am the world's worst actress. My drama is drama in a sense yet feels real, not shallow. I don't think I act - I sometimes feel I am more real and honest than many as I am very open and show my very real emotions easily. I don't lie nor have I ever cheated on any of my partners, the opposite: I've had an unhealthily strict perspective on relationships, I used to think even mild flirting was a sin. I have always thought my ability to feel strongly comes from feeling immense pain when I was little. As my emotions were not numbed I became overemotional.

In the past two years I have noticed a change. I fell in love with a man with NPD, this is the first time I felt something else than friendship-love in my life. Since then I have become much more open, impulsive and sexual. I seem to have discovered a new side of myself. I think about sex often and have noticed this side of me (which I have unnaturally strongly suppressed all my life) is surfacing. I have always been pretty, I was probably even prettier when I was younger, but now suddenly I am receiving much more attention from men. It is as if they somehow thought I was sending some kind of messages I am not aware of sending. I have started paying more attention on my looks although I don't spend much money on maintainíng them. Still, my behavior might be interpreted to be sexual, I don't know. (I never ever dance on tables, rub myself against others, suggest sexual things to people etc - the stuff I have read about here.) I have never been a jealous attention-seeker, just popular. Now it is almost ridiculous how popular I have become, I don't know why. Maybe it is because I am warm and talkative and I really care about other people. I have many long, warm relationships with my friends and relatives. Now I notice I have an enormous power over men. I have always disliked people who are not genuine and who play games yet a part of me enjoys this power.

As far as relationships go I realize I have broken some hearts. I try to love but have to end the relationships when I realize I am not loving really, just desperately trying to love. I don't want to hurt anybody and it has been very painful to end these relationships (I am a serial monogamist) and see the other person's pain. I am now thinking of joining a nunnery or something as I seem to bring pain to the men I try to love.
It has been a shock to realize that I really am not normal. I ´behave so differently from the average and my emotions seem to work quite differently from many others' emotions. On one hand I do like myself as I am but on the other it is a lonely feeling that I am somehow abnormal.


Do you think I am somehow getting ill with HPD?


_____
Love many trust few, always paddle your own canoe.

You sound to me more like you have the healthy Histrionic Personality Style moreso than the disorder as for one you say you really care about people.

Two you'd be cool with someone else having center stage and:

Three you are not jealous of people so you say but anyway...

A true HPD is so wrapped up in their own emotional life dramas they could give a damn about anyone else's suffering or problems.

That sort of thing is something thats just not on their radar.

However you are involved with an N and they are abusers, if not physically emotionally which tells me you probably hate yourself deep down and on some level probably believe this destructive relationship is what you deserve.

Well its not and the moment you begin to truly love yourself you will see this and not go any farther with this man as well as fall any farther down the HPD path until you ultimately have the disorder.

Good luck to you.

Hi, thanks for your reply. It helped a lot. Of course my self-image is probably very far from how other people see me. I could, for instance, be blamed for attention-seeking. But I do genuinely feel for others, often far too much. I am a shoulder many people cry on. I feel compassion and have always been able to cope with my problems by putting them into perspective, realising how many people suffer in this world etc.
This whole falling-in-love-with a person with NPD has brought out the strangest sides in me. As you suggested it is perhaps a sign of something being wrong if I fall for a person with no sense of empathy (or a sense of empathy seriously damaged). Especially, since I have been incapable of loving in this way before. Hard to say. All I know is that more introspection is needed so that I can learn to love myself and experience 'grown-up' love.

All the best for you, too!

ps what is this thing about a specially kind of coarse skin at the back of one's hands? I read from somewhere on the internet that all 'genuine' HPD's have that kind of a skin on their hands.

Hi Sorrowchild,

I had a one year relationship with a woman who has Borderline Personality Disorder, and recently ended a six month relationship with a woman who has Histrionic Personality Disorder... I've done a lot of reading about both.

The Cluster B personality disorders are all similar, and overlapping... but their effect on the "nons" in their lives tend to be pretty standard. If nothing else, it's disorienting, eh?

You're in a relationship with someone who has NPD? To me, NPD is HPD, plus testosterone... they're very, very similar.

Your recent changes in your own behavior are most likely the result of your relationship with an NPD/HPD partner... you've picked up some "fleas" from him.

Even in a normal relationship we all pick up fleas... if you're with a partner who eats a lot of fish, you'll increase them in your diet, too. If your partner likes Country music, you'll develop a like for it. Putting the cap back onto toothpaste, or putting the toilet seat down? In many ways, they're all just fleas that we pick up from one another. We do, after all, try to please our partners by changing ourselves to be more like them... in a healthy relatinship, that increases compatibility.

In an unhealthy relationship, we pick up unhealthy traits... those are the HPD/NPD fleas that you've picked up.

You're now more interested in your looks and sexuality; because your guy was obsessed with his, and your looks and sexuality. He gave them new meaning for you... it's quite normal for that to happen.

In time, you'll find a balance. It's not wrong for you to be more interested in your sexuality after your relationship with your NPD... anymore than it would be wrong for you to have an increased interest in exercise, following a relationship with a workout guru. None of us reverts back to exactly what we were, prior to being in a relationship. Change is good. Balancing your old life with the experiences you've learned in your NPD relationship (or any relationship) will make you grow (hopefully) into a new and improved you.

OH... and there's nothing wrong with caring about someone who lacks empathy. That would be like thinking you're wrong to donate money to someone who's starving, simply because the person wouldn't share the food you give them. Our humanity makes us care for people who cannot care for us, and we're blessed to have that ability. We're also blessed with the ability to forgive them.

To understand Personality Disorders a bit better, you might want to Google "PET, fMRI, hippocampus". Their brains are different from ours. I'm not sure if they're born that way, or become that way... I think it's a lot like looking at someone who limps... do they limp because of a birth defect, an injury, or because their parents made them wear shoes that were too small while their feet were growing?

All we can know for sure, is that they limp. It's the same thing for people with PDs... their brains limp. I feel sorry for them, especially if it was preventable.

Your post sounds like you were disoriented by your involvement with someone who has a PD... welcome to the club. One out of seven people has a PD... they all have numerous turbulent relationships, so you can be sure that there are even more disoriented "nons" out there.... Just like you.

You don't sound like you have HPD/NPD.

You sound like someone who has been with someone who has HPD/NPD.

You sound like you picked up a few fleas.

:0)

I wouldn't rule out that shorrowchild in fact suffers from HPD.

The question is: why did you have all these relationships with people that you didn't actually love? Yes, a normal relationship may turn sour, but usually we do not enter a relationship and then have to "desperately try to love". Since you have done it often, there is probably something wrong.

If you do feel some compassion for the men who may have honestly fell in love with you and got hurt, then you should seek some professional help and evaluation, so that you will not hurt other well-meaning guys. It is very difficult to diagnose HPD and I don't think it can be done in a forum.

[twocents, there is a huge problem with you limp analogy: a physical defect is obvious and does not hurt other people. Cluster B people are stealthy, they cheat and lie, and do hurt other people.]

"there is a huge problem with you limp analogy: a physical defect is obvious and does not hurt other people. Cluster B people are stealthy, they cheat and lie, and do hurt other people."

The Emotional Vampires book I just got instructed that while these people don't operate in the same way as a normal person its wrong to think of them as sick in the sense of she is so sick she couldn't help but manipulate and be cruel to everyone she has come across in life so lets just give her a break and let her continue on in life hurting people without saying a word to her to stop since she can't help but hurt people anyway etc.

No.

The psychiatrist author makes it clear that while these people may not be able to control their erratic and impulsive thoughts from coming to them they can control whether to act on those thoughts or not and more often than not they consciously choose the action that will help them (in their mind) and hurt you (if you find out).

He also stresses accountability for their bad deeds all throughout the book and instructs partners of Cluster B Personality Disordered to hold them accountable for what they do ie leave them if they cheat or lie or if you work for one of them and they try to get you to do some difficult work for many months and promise you a big payoff in the end make sure you get a formal contract drawn up that guarantees you the money because they will screw you out of the promise in the end if you don't as the promise was just a way of getting you to do a bunch of their work for them while they're off cheating on their wife or doing something else while you slave away unawares about the knife of betrayel approaching your back.

However while all of them consciously choose whether to act on an impulsive thought that may be harmful to their partner not all of them manipulate consciously. The HPD's and BPD's often are unaware of how manipulative they really are while NPD's and ASPD's are pretty much always aware of exactly what they are doing.

When a HPD or BPD is dual diagnosed with one of the other two more dangerous Cluster B Personality Disorders they are consciously aware of their manipulations thanks to the side effect of the more dangerous Cluster B Personality Disorder they have in addition to HPD or BPD but again a pure case of HPD or BPD alone would probably yield someone completely unaware of how very manipulative they are. Not always but usually the case.

Anyway all Cluster B's realize the harm certain actions of theirs will bring to other people but due to no emotion or very shallow emotion and lack of conscience and many rationalizations for their behavior they are able to make it through the day.

So in closing sick probably isn't a fitting word for them but rather deficient.

Deficient of remorse, empathy and guilt but efficient on rationalizations, excuses and broken promises.

To say someone is sick gives them an out because they could embrace the label and say I'm sick I can't help what I do but according to the psychiatrist who wrote the great book I've been reading its not the truth for Cluster B.

They are deficient and disordered not so much sick.

Anyway all Cluster B's realize the harm certain actions of theirs will bring to other people but due to no emotion or very shallow emotion and lack of conscience and many rationalizations for their behavior they are able to make it through the day.

behavior spelt with a u in the UK. Maybe not in The SA. dunno.

I agree with most things you have posted here but this comment.
I used to live with a girl I believe to be HPD. Well without a doubt she was.
She used to tart herself up and go out 4 - 5 nights a week, I found out when we were over that she had cheated on me nearly the whole time we were together. Different guys in different cars. My god she should have got paid for it. She could have retired.
She kept telling me she loved me and how wonderful I was. She wanted to marry me and have a kid. No chance, i was just getting over a divorce. (Thank god i had my head screwed on). I always felt her love was empty, pure words switched on when she wanted to or needed something. No depth to them at all.
She falls perfectly into your cluster B category. But... She never thought once about anything she was doing, or the hurt she caused. The way she had left me feeling or any other guy that she had used. No remorse ever. She didn't care.
I had not long come out of a marriage and was not at this time looking for something to last a lifetime. I just wanted some fun well i buried myself in work and court case that was left battling to see my son.
She lied and lied and cheated. She went too far and eventually it turned around and bit her on the arse big time.
But she never thought about what she was doing. It was a normal thing. She used her sexuality and looks to get what she desired. When I kicked her out I thought I would never see her again. I was so wrong. See the more I didn’t want her the more she wanted me. In the end we ended up in court. With her making up lies to the police that she had been raped by me. I was arrested and taken to the police station; she signed a statement which I was allowed to read that I had broken into her flat and raped her.
She was a very sad and unfulfilled sick girl. At that time i never understood why she would say such crap. Why would she say these thing's about me. I understand them perfectly now.
When she was checked over by a police surgeon and nurse she retracted it all. No bruising, no DNA to locate etc. She $#%^ herself and she was arrested for it all.
She was a F***ing nightmare.
But I do understand she couldn’t help it, it's just the way her mind is cross wired. She believed she was acting normally. I spoke to her about a year later about this. She said that if she couldn't have me she was gonna hurt me till i begged her to take me back.
She never ever thought about consequences of her actions, or others feelings ever! She couldn't, she wasn't capable of this. So in the realms of what is normal behavior? to her she was normal. As normal as the rest of us.

Regards Jamo

"twocents, there is a huge problem with your limp analogy: a physical defect is obvious and does not hurt other people. Cluster B people are stealthy, they cheat and lie, and do hurt other people."

I don't mean this in a wise way... but why do we all accept that our good behavior comes from our brain; but we don't accept that bad behavior comes from the same place?

Think about this....

People with PDs have a lack of "object constancy". We've all had that at one time in our lives. Ever played "Peek-a-boo" with a baby? If you cover your face with your hands, suddenly... to the baby... you no longer exist. Do any of us still exist to our PD?

Ever dealt with a kid who's in their Terrible Twos? They need instant gratification, are impulsive, have no control over their emotions, and they "rage". Just like the PDs we've been with.

And what would you call it when a young child goes up to mom; puts on their "pretty face" and asks for a puppy? Mom says "No"... and then the same child goes to daddy; puts on their "cute face", and asks dad if they can have a puppy? When a young child does it, we don't call it manipulation... but if a young adult does that same sort of thing, we call it manipulative and evil.

We've all been there, done that. Our HPD didn't get what they "needed" from their last partner, so they came to us... then they didn't get what they needed from us... so they found another "mommy" or "daddy" to try to satisfy their need.

When we deal with an immature brain in a child, we accept their bad behavior as "normal".

When we deal with a damaged or undeveloped brain in an adult, we reject their bad behavior as "abnormal".

But it's the same behavior... from the same part of their brain.

Take a kid who is stuck in their Terrible Twos, age them, make them intellectually intelligent, give them a procedural memory that allows them to "learn" how do do things like eat in fancy restaurants, perform sexually, etc... and essentially you have a PD.

Take a kid who plays "dress-up", knows how to use their appearance to be pretty or cute to get what they want... and how is that different from HPD?

We call them Barbies... but we don't accept that emotionally they're stuck playing with their Barbie dolls.... The only difference is that THEY become the doll.

Their brains are different. The emotional part of their brain, the limbic system, didn't grow normally.

If the physical part of their brain is mis-developed, we call them "handicapped"... and build wheelchair ramps for them.

If the intellectual part of their brain doesn't develop, we call it Mental Retardation, and we accept it as a physical cause.

But we don't know what to do if their emotional brain doesn't develop... somehow, we don't accept that.

A person with a PD does have a physical defect which is very obvious, and it does hurt other people. Cluster B people are stealthy, they cheat and lie, and they do hurt other people. I won't argue that at all. Those are the manifested symptoms of the physical defect in the part of their brain that controls emotions.

I'm not trying to make those symptoms "right", anymore than I'd say that being a cripple is normal, or having an IQ of 60 is normal.

But I am saying that they are all connected to our brains.

What do you think would happen if the part of the brain that controls our legs was damaged?

What do you think would happen if the part of the brain that controls our intellect was damaged?

And... why is damage to the emotional part of our brain any different?

Babies can't walk, think, or feel the way that a normal adult does....

Some have brains that never grow to walk, or think, or feel the way that a normal brain does those things.

Have a relationship with a cripple, and you won't expect her to run.

Have a relationship with a woman who has a low IQ, and you won't expect her to be a mathematician.

But have a relationship with a woman who has an undeveloped emotion control center... and suddenly you think she shouldn't have a problem with her emotions?

It happens to one out of seven Americans. To varying degrees, they have problems controlling their emotions. Some never stop raging, some never stop needing instant gratification, some never develop object constancy.

I'm not offering an excuse for the behavior. I'm offering a biological reason for it.

Each of us runs, or thinks, at a different speed. Each of us feels at a different speed, too.

Ultimately, it all comes from our brains.

A "limping" brain is a perfect analogy. The damage that can be done to our brains will produce symptoms. One out of seven Americans have damage that we call Personality Disorders. The emotion controlling parts of their brains "limp".

The symptoms are not easy for "nons" to accept... but they are nonetheless caused by measurable (PET and fMRI) differences.

:0)

I agree with your main point.

After all, from a scientific viewpoint there are only two possible reasons for ANY psychological problem: 1) brain problem, or 2) chemical imbalance (or some combination).

Research in this area might lead to better treatments in the future.

However, right now there are also some other considerations (and in this I agree with KontrollerX).

1. Cluster B people usually do not realize they have a problem (and they do not seek a cure).
2. Other people cannot easily discover that a person suffers from some cluster B handicap.
3. There are victims. And many of the victims had good intentions, but they were not prepared for a cluster B.

Since you like analogies, heavy drinking is also a brain problem. However, people who have accidents DUI go to jail. Those who damage other people’s lives because they suffer from cluster B disorders don’t go to jail. So, already our society is quite lenient towards cluster Bs.

You said: “I'm not offering an excuse for the behavior”. However, all of your examples are about innocents, like babies and people with low IQ, who do not and cannot harm anyone. Why don’t you compare Cluster Bs to serial killers? After all, most serial killers do have some brain problem too! If all criminals with some kind of brain problem or chemical imbalance were freed from the jails then very few would remain jailed (mostly the innocent!).

Personally, I do pity my ex – HPD. But I feel even worse when I think that: 1) I could not help her because she didn’t think she needed any help at all, and 2) I could not warn any of her future unsuspecting boyfriends…

I think everyone should be held accountable for their behavior... and punished if that's what they deserve.

The majority of patients at psych hospitals have PDs, and the majority of the inmates at our jails have PDs... so many of them are already being punished for bad behavior.

I'm glad I don't have a PD. I'm also sad for anyone who does.

They didn't ask to be the way they are, and if they could change, they would. I've already admitted that their behavior hurts people... but that doesn't mean it's premeditated. They can be guilty of hurting people... AND still be innocent.

Would you act like them, if you had a choice?

They don't have a choice.

That's sad, and I feel sorry for them.