strange hope

My grandfather passed away this month. I suppose it was his time, he had lived a very long life. However it was still hard on my family, like all loss is. Although in his last weeks of life something very strange happened. It was six weeks before his death and even though he was very unwell he still had the ability to walk around the house. The phone rang and he answered it. Me and my father were cleaning things upstairs at the time so we were oblivious to anything he was doing downstairs. The cleaning took about two and a half hours, but every five minutes or so my dad would go down to check on my grandfather. At one point my dad came upstairs and told me that my grandfather was saying very strange things on the phone and that he seemed oblivious to anything around him. We both assumed he was either very out of it or we were interpreting things wrong. When we finally finished cleaning we came downstairs and saw my grandfather sitting in an armchair and looking shocked out of his mind. My dad asked him what was wrong. He said, "I spoke with George." George is his dead brother. This was very strange since he is an atheist and didn't believe in an afterlife. My dad told him that it was probably just a side effect of the kemotherapy (even if he was not telling the truth) and sent him to bed. The two of us had a long talk afterward. There were many reasons to be skeptical that this actually meant there was an afterlife. But this gave me a strange hope that there is maybe an afterlife. I had always been depressed when I thought about just being nothing after I died and this actually made me kinda hopeful. I know there is probably a million scientific reasonings to why this happened, but there is a chance that he actually spoke with his dead brother. Has a similiar situation happened to anyone else here? I'd really like to know other thoughts of people.

First of all, may I extend to you my sympathy to you as you grieve the loss of your grandfather.

I know there are skeptics out there and many have their beliefs as to why you shouldn't believe in God...heaven, etc. I personally believe.

I would believe whether I had my stories or not.

But here are two of mine.

My grandmother died in September of '97. She and one of her cousins had always been particularily close. At the funeral her cousin came up to my mom. He was shaken. He told of a dream...a vision he thought he had. You see, my grandmother passed on his birthday. In the night hours...sometime just after midnight on his birthday. She ALWAYS called him every birthday and wished him a happy birthday and then they'd talk. Again. They were close from little on. Anyway. My cousin woke and there was my grandmother standing before his bed. She called him by name and wished him a happy birthday. Then she was gone. My mom asked him if he happened to know what time this happened. Yes he knew. The incident startled him so...after all he knew she happened to be in hospice at the time...that he glanced over to his bedside clock. The time on his bedside table matched the time that she passed to the exact min. Now my own mother believes that once you die...that's it. She believes in God. She's not sure what "heaven" means to her yet. But she says she doesn't believe that you can come back and visist your loved ones. She always says "black is black and white is white". So she said when she heard this story it was upsetting to her because she believes her mother's cousin. She doesn't believe that he was dreaming or confused or anything like that and of course that sort of disputes what she has always held true for herself. She said she still pretty much believes that once you die....that's it, etc. but at the same time....she has to wonder because she does not question this story either. She just shrugs and says I don't know. Guess I'll find out when I die won't I?!

Then there is my other grandmother's passing. My niece. She is about 10 now? So that made her about 5 or 6 when my grandmother died. She just loved my grandmother (her great-grandmother technically). She visited w/ my cousin often in the nursing home. We all knew that grandma's time was "drawing near". We knew it was just a matter of days basically. On the day that Grandma actually did pass my cousin and his daughter were coming to see her one last time. They drove past the nursing home...they were not going there just yet, but rather where on the way to my aunt's house....my cousin wanted to pick up his mom first and then head back to the nursing home so they could all go in and see my grandmother together. Well....as they passed by the nursing home....my neice let out a gasp...she cried and said "grandma's gone now". My cousin said "what do you mean....it's ok....we'll go see her today honey" and so forth. He went on to calm her down and explain that it was ok...yes...she was dying and didn't have much time but that they would get to see her one last time and so forth and so on. But she stopped him...she said that no, don't bother. She was gone. He asked what she was talking about and she said simply....I see her...she told me...she's gone. Well my cousin felt a bit nervous and stunned but he brushed it off. They got to his mom's house. It wasn't too much longer and my dad called my aunt. And at the exact time that my cousin and his daughter drove past the nursing home and my neice cried out.....yes...my grandmother had died. My neice believes that she saw her and was told goodbye.

Those are the only two things I have ever been told.

I've never experienced anything personally. Never have seen any loved ones past...you know....ghost if you will.

I did contact a phsyic once. It was via an e-mail connection. I wanted to reach out to a friend that I love dearly who committed suicide when we were teens. He has been gone 14 years now. As my friend (never a boyfriend or anything), I love him dearly. At any rate....I did not give very much personal information. I had some questions though. Now normally with these types of things they want money! They won't answer questions unless you pay like a min. of $50 ...most are more like $300! And then they set up to call you and do a phone reading. I am not paying for that!! Well anyway. She said she couldn't do a full reading for me w/out my paying for her services....but she would answer a couple of questions....my friend ....he too believed himself to be an athesist. Well I say it like that because as a teenager....when I was a teen...that was sort of the "in" thing to be...not so sure he would have carried those beliefs into adult hood...but who knows....anyway.....so for having died w/ those beliefs....I often wondered if he did cross over, etc. She assurred me that he did cross over and that he was fine. Then she shared some things w/ me that she said he had to say to me. Just 3 things and I honestly believe them. I truly believe there is NO way she could have just known these things. I didn't hint at them in e-mail and they were not things that you ....well you know how when you open up the paper and you read a horoscope....you can twist the meaning of the words and be like....oh wow....that is SO me?!! What she said...it wasn't like that. She even described where I would be in my home reading my e-mail when I got it....now sure....most are in front of their computer at their desk.....she wasn't that generic. She described personal items that I would have on my desk. in detail. One in particular that I just don't believe is any old item that most people would have you know? To where it would be like ...oh come on.....lucky guess...anyone would have that and she got lucky that you had it too! So I guess that brought me comfort. I guess there can be skeptics that can tear that apart regardless......but hey you know what......I also look at it like no matter what.....NO ONE CAN EVER KNOW BEYOND THE SHADOW OF A DOUBT FOR SURE until we die and find out for ourselves! So if how I believe brings me comfort while I'm here and I have faith in my God .....I don't see that as wrong!

I truly believe that what happened to your grandfather is real. Maybe the disease that was taking his life put him in a prospective that helped opened his mind to receive the messages from his brother? Just a guess....I don't study this sort of thing so I can't "pretend" to know! But again....what brings you comfort right? That's how I look at it.

Psychics are charlatans, I'm afraid. Much paranormal research has been done not one whit of evidence has been shown for psychic viewing. Hell, if you could do it, you could earn yourself 1 million dollars. Google for JREF challenge if you like.

to each their own. I believe it for me. No one else has to believe it for them. My belief in my stories bring me comfort. When I die....I guess I'll find out the ultimate truth at that time won't I?! No one can challenge that beyond any shadows of doubts now can they?
Until that time....I'm happy with what I believe. I don't feel like challenging that. What I believe for myself doesn't work for you. I can respect that. To you it's nonsense....fakes ....oh and don't get me wrong....I do believe that there are many people out there that are fake and that not all are real or to be trusted. But yeah....I guess I do believe in the possibilities and I do believe there are certain things that can and do happen. Again....my beliefs bring me comfort and I don't feel I myself personally take it too far or anything. We all have to do what we feel is right for ourselves to carry us through. Like I keep saying....carry us through until is is our time and we do get those firm solid answers that can't be challenged! You can provide me a link to any site you want verty....but no matter what....there will ALWAYS be someone on the opposite side to challenge it and believing they have their facts or evidence to speak to the contrary!

Oh, I know. It comes down to whether or not knowledge beats belief. For some, knowledge is scary and threatening, it doesn't allow one to be comfortable. Of course there are philosophical responses to that which I'll not get into, but I certainly appreciate that a person must first choose knowledge over belief for any appeal to knowledge to be worthwhile.

Well.....it's like I said.....each side can offer up that they have facts and evidence to back up their arguments for why their believe their side to be true beyond the shadow of any doubts!...........

I know I'm pretty much talking in the way you said about "beliefs"....but yep....I do "believe" that when it comes down to it.....you just truly won't know anything til you die......not for 100% certain. You can argue your knowledge but even that I believe you can't argue to 100% certain! You just won't know til ya die after all and then ....well....I guess we can only debate on that one whether or not the idea that you can come back and tell me if your information was right or wrong (haha!! )

I won't debate with you...not that I think you mean to start.....I don't have facts on this one....I don't study up on the subject....I just go with my gut and my heart here...what I believe...and take comfort in it. I'm one of those...if you can't tell as I repeat!....that believes when I die I'll find out one way or another....but for now...yep....I take comfort in believing as I've stated! I feel for what I have been taught thus far....what I believe does hold and make sense. That's enough for me. So I don't question it. Others need to. And again....for them I respect that. [/b][/i]

Thank you for sharing your stories and beliefs with me. I could go on about my paranormal experiences, but like you said, it comes down to faith. That is something that I don't have sadly. I'm a natural born skeptic. I just wanted to know if similiar things have happened to other people. Also it's worth mentioning that my grandmother (wife of the same late grandfather) died last night. She had no paranormal experience, but she was also out of her mind the last few months. I don't think she even cared to live anymore without her husband. It's tragic on the whole family, but I can't imagine how my father feels, having lost two parents in just two years.

but I can't imagine how my father feels

This always puzzles me. Usually we say something like this to be supportive, but how supportive is it to tell someone that you have no clue what they are going through? To me, it seems like removing the ladder while someone is on the roof. But at the same time, if we do claim to know how it feels, they might challenge us.

So I suppose it comes down to specifically how much of an epistemic limit the subjectivity of feelings is. On the one hand, I'd like to say that we can imagine to some degree what it might feel like, but on the other hand I am loathe to accept that claim that transsexuals "feel like a woman inside", etc.

My usual retort to that is that one only knows what being oneself feels like, and that there is no good basis whereby to seperate what it feels like to be a man or woman from what it feels like to be black or white, etc. Our feelings are only differentiated over time, but being a man or woman, or being black or white, does not change over time. Certainly we might make some claim about what it feels like to be young versus what it feels like to be old, because that changes over time.

Along these lines, I'd like to say that if one has experienced grief, one can rightly claim that one knows what grief is like. Grief does alter over time. Therefore, I believe you should rightly be able to claim that you can imagine what it feels like, since you (presumably) have experienced grief to some degree.

Even if the grief of losing two parents is of a greater degree, any experience of grief should compare.

Did you ask your Grand Father later about what he said before he went to bed?
Did he recall talking to George?
What was his conversation with George?

J_M wrote:Did you ask your Grand Father later about what he said before he went to bed?

No, but after he woke up my father asked him questions.

J_M wrote:Did he recall talking to George?

Yes, but he did not recall what they talked about.

J_M wrote:What was his conversation with George?

Refer to the answer above.