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Stock/Option "trading", I mean, gambling

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Re: Stock/Option "trading", I mean, gambling

Postby chilaxis » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:29 pm

Tbone, thank you for your guidance and support.

I think I may have hit rock bottom yesterday.

On the way home from work on the train, again I was switching on my laptop to trade the market trying to get back the $4k+ that I lost the day before, and started scalping the market. You are right that it was like betting on the horses - there was no following of any trading plan, no money management, just a gut feeling that there's a support here and there's a resistance there, and away I went. Surely enough, by the time I reached home I lost another $4k. And like waking up from a trance, I realized that within a day I have thrown away my monthly salary that I've worked so hard for. On top of that, I realized I have taken out my children's money from their savings account, and also money from my wife's business working capital to continue with trading. Now with a $65k debt overhanging, and I will be struggling to make ends meet even this month for my family's expenses and my wife's business.

On the bed at night, I was feeling so painful in the gut. I talked to my wife about my pain and my addiction and it caused her to lose sleep and was checking everything online to see how she can help deal with my addiction.

I will remember today's pain as the key turning point in my life. No way am I going to allow this to continue. Trading for me is truly just as bad as sports betting. Every trade/bet has a negative expectancy - it's like throwing money, time and energy into a black hole and irrecoverable.

Hopefully I can be as successful as you to go on a run of abstinence from gambling/trading, Tbone. Hopefully it will be an indefinite run. One that I can tell my kids about one day that has changed our family's circumstances for the better.

Day-1 for real this time!!!! One day at a time.
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Re: Stock/Option "trading", I mean, gambling

Postby tbone3443 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:14 am

I feel very happy for you, this time seem different. The main difference is that you talked to your wife. You have to have life long allies with you to beat this disease. And Im so happy you understand that there is a negative expectancy with every trade. Best of luck to you!!!!
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Re: Stock/Option "trading", I mean, gambling

Postby Timehealsall » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:43 am

chilaxis wrote:Nett outcome: In two weeks - lost a further -$300, plus 80 hours of time and energy which could have been better applied at work, business, family.


Hi chilaxis, glad to hear that you have told your wife about this and I am sure you will get out of this. I saw one of your replies on this thread and this part stood out to me

"plus 80 hours of time and energy which could have been better applied at work, business, family."

Personally, I used to play sports betting and realised that I was spending way too much time analysing odds, finding patterns, rationalising my own bets when the outcome is really really random. Not to mention the hours spent watching those sports games and wasting my mental energy trying to "will my team to win".

I really believe that if we can better spend our energy on the right things, we will be more satisfied in our lives in the long term. All the best staying gambling free!
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Re: Stock/Option "trading", I mean, gambling

Postby Fund Manager » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:06 pm

chilaxis wrote:On the way home from work on the train, again I was switching on my laptop to trade the market trying to get back the $4k+ that I lost the day before, and started scalping the market. You are right that it was like betting on the horses - there was no following of any trading plan, no money management, just a gut feeling that there's a support here and there's a resistance there, and away I went. Surely enough, by the time I reached home I lost another $4k.


Darn, that really sucks! :cry:

Please seriously consider PERMANENTLY CLOSING your trading account(s) to prevent a future relapse. Sheer willpower alone is not an effective solution to gambling addiction.

EDIT: As you trade derivatives, you probably have a leveraged account, which is usually harder to re-open than a normal cash account. To improve deterrent, consider changing your investor profile to "risk = low" and "occupation = retired" as this will preclude most financial institutions from any leveraged trading with you.

Source: Professional money manager with former stock market addiction.
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Re: Stock/Option "trading", I mean, gambling

Postby 58gambling » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:14 pm

I haven't read through all the posts in this thread, but I do believe day trading is very similar to sports betting....I recently spoke to a man who claimed he made nearly a million dollars doing this, but lost it all back, and more.....I knew a young man who got caught up in all the sports betting through a bookie that let him bet and keep doubling his bets even when he didn't have the money to cover his losses, ended up probably owing thousands.....I know the lure of sports betting is as bad as day trading, because when you don't bet on games and you see that you would've won if you had, it's a real temptation or lure to get you back into it....if only you could look at the big picture and see that it's a losing proposition in the long run and the bottom line is you will end up losing untold amounts of money....it may be hard to accept, but the sooner you face the reality, the better off you will be.
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Re: Stock/Option "trading", I mean, gambling

Postby chilaxis » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:33 pm

Thank you for the encouragement and tips all. It's not been easy. Still drawn to looking at charts - but have not entered a trade since 5 days ago.

Not sure how to abstain from looking at charts - it's already become a habit, like being addicted to a computer game. But at least I've managed to surf the urge to trade and not dig a bigger hole for myself. Left with $4k cash to last until mid-next month of next paycheck. Will need to use this wisely and not feed it down the black hole.

My mission now is to stay gamble/trading-free, work hard over the next 24 months to cut down my $65k debt, return money to my kids' accounts and wife's business's working capital.

Have set up an appointment with a gambling and financial counselor this Friday. Hope they can help give me some guidance on my way to recovery.

Day-5 Gambling/Trading free. One day at a time - thanks for your support Timehealsall, Fund Manager, 58gambling and especially tbone3443 (who seems like my soulmate as we share very similar life experience!) Need to stay vigilant. One gamble/trade is too many, one thousand gambles/trades are not enough.
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Re: Stock/Option "trading", I mean, gambling

Postby tbone3443 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:15 pm

Great chiaxis, I think the first 5 days are the hardest (I will be at 2 months and 8 days of trading free days today). You have exposed your gambling addiction to outside people which I have done and it is a HUGE step. I think you have the right attitude and mission.

I have been able to avoid financial news media almost entirely, and it really has helped. I would avoid the charts completely-they are your enemy, your poison. The charts are like showing pictures of heroin to a heroin addict. Your brain is trying to look at squiggly lines on a graph, and convince you that those squiggly lines are going to tell you something about future squiggly lines. But the computers that control Wall Street know you are trying to do this, and they are designed to take money from those who think this type of analysis provides a long term way to trading success-it doesn’t. I don’t care how many people on CNBC say they are good at technical analysis, I guarantee you that 99% are not doing any better than anyone else.

I would try to understand and think about what your brain is doing when you are getting those urges to trade and why. You have to teach that part of the brain that it has to get stimulus elsewhere-from something that is going to improve your life.

Great job on Day 5!!!
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Re: Stock/Option "trading", I mean, gambling

Postby tbone3443 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:01 pm

Chilaxis, it has been a while and curious to see how things are going. Im hoping that you are on the road to recovery.

I went to exactly 3 months to the day without gambling. I would say what I did this week was “technically” gambling, but I need to explain, as I really still have no desire to put significant money at risk I thought long and hard about this before making this decision, and I came up with a strategy that effectively tries to take away money from investors who think they can predict the market, using certain option strategies, which I have not seen anyone else doing (at least publicly). There is some principal risk of course, but it is tiny, and much less risk than if one were even just to invest in the broad indexes. I have found it impossible to stay away completely from the markets, as that is where most of intellectual curiosity lies.

Sure, I am saying “it is different this time” and anyone reading my posts would think I am crazy and that I should stay away from Wall Street completely. But this time it feels different, completely different. I am still sure I CANNOT beat the markets by predicting the direction of securities, but I think I can use time and patience to take money away from those who think they can. Just having money in a brokerage account though is risky. Will my desire to gamble (which doesn’t exist now but could re-emerge in the future) take over my mind and take me away from this strategy? Today, I say that it is a 0% chance, but I really don’t know what will happen in the future. Plus, I am starting with a small amount of $ so I cannot do any real financial damage if things changed.
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Re: Stock/Option "trading", I mean, gambling

Postby NewSunRising » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:16 am

tbone3443 wrote:Will my desire to gamble (which doesn’t exist now but could re-emerge in the future) take over my mind and take me away from this strategy? Today, I say that it is a 0% chance, but I really don’t know what will happen in the future.


My experience : After 6 months of recovery , I became convinced that I could gamble in control if I followed a set of self-imposed "rules" .

For 2 months , I did just that . I set a limit and stuck to it , followed strict time restrictions , made sure all financial obligations were paid before even thinking about going to gamble .

In the 3rd month , I started regularly winning money and actually was able to walk away with it .

By the end of the 4th month I had spiraled so far out of control that my previous level of addiction ( which was BAD ) paled in comparison . To this day , relapse is the thing I fear the most because I know without a shadow of a doubt the next time will be even worse .

I truly hope that it doesn't go that way for you but for me the risk is far too great . No amount of money is enough to lure me back into the trap . I barely made it out alive the last time .
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Re: Stock/Option "trading", I mean, gambling

Postby tbone3443 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:43 pm

Thanks NewSunRising, I really appreciate your response. I did put such a small amount in my account that it wouldn’t matter if I lost it all, which is not likely based on what I am doing. A relapse for me is if I add more new money to my account, or if change my (conservative) strategy, which I am determined not to do. The last 3 months have seemed to destroy the gambling monster I had inside me-to me, it seems like he is gone. I don’t feel the need to “get my money back” or anything like that. I think most would say I am niave to the evils of the gambling mind and what it can do to trick you to get back in the game, but after this 3 months, I do feel like a new person. Time will tell.
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