Courage to Leave a Bad Situation

is DDJ a form of spouse abuse?

i've been thinking a lot, in the last four months, about my choice to stay with my DDJ husband for so many years, the anguish I felt after he moved out, and his reaction to the split. I'm beginning to realize that he was controlling me through his illness, and that I had become a willing participant in an abusive relationship.

I stayed because I believed I loved him, that the kids' well-being depended on an intact family, that I needed him, and that he was my responsibility, that I was somehow to blame for his anger. After he moved out, I felt rejected and lonely and I prayed for his recovery. He, on the other hand, continued to bully me: coming over, calling, picking fights and writing nasty e-mails. I'm having trouble reconciling this angry jerk with the loving partner of my memory.

In his book, The Gift of Fear, Gavin de Becker writes that a battered child or spouse gets "a powerful feeling of overwhelming relief when an incident ends." The victim "becomes addicted to that feeling," and the abuser is the only person who can "deliver moments of peace, by being his better self for a while." Victims in this situation lose their self-protecting instincts, and make irrational decisions.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I lived for those peaceful moments. The worse the episode, the more precious the peace. I fantasized about a time when every day would bring love and peace, and I would be happy again. Since he has moved out, the difference this time is that I know there will be no "peaceful moment" with his "better self".

So, do any of you feel that DDJ is another type of domestic abuse? And how have you regained your self-worth?

Thanks for posting uptohere - I have been wondering how you have been doing.

I think I would have stayed longer in the situation (was in for 3yrs.from onset) if my xhusband hadn't asked me to leave. That changed everything for me.

I agree with you that DDJ is a form of spousal abuse. Whether there is an illness involved or not it becomes a highly controling and verbally abusive situation for the partner. I never considered leaving until he asked for it. I just kept trying to make it work.

It's not easy to recover from. It's been a year and a half since I moved out - but in truth my marriage died a slow and painful death while I was still with him. I distanced more and more to keep some sense of emotional safety. It's a slow rebuild. I feel pretty good most days. But I don't have the emotional reserves. I feel like my nervious system has been affected and I get aggitated more easily and it's almost like I get over stimulated very easily. I've become very sound sensitive and can't handle loud noises or being around alot of activity.

I've been thinking alot about the DDJ's responsibility in the situation. I understand there is an illness involved, however, at the same time I'm not sure where the line is in what they can control in how they actually treat the other person. The DDJ truly believes that we are guilty, however, do they not have some responsility or choice around their actions? I don't know.

Hi Everygreen and Uptohere,

My situation was very similar to yours. I was determined to keep the family intact, until my ex filed for divorce. Looking back, I know it was mental abuse for the last 3-4 years of my marriage.

I think the most important moment for me to recover from it was when I realized that it happened because his brain was ill, and there was absolutely nothing I could do to help him, especially when he refused to accept the diagnosis. From there, I started to draw a clear boundary for our relationship. Because we have young children together, I still had to maintain a level of connection, but I cut off all face-to-face contacts and stopped answering his calls. All communications were done via emails or text messages. If something needed to be done for the children, I first asked the children to make the requests for themselves and if it was absolutely necessary, I used emails. It was the only way I knew for me to "get over" my feelings for him. I had some very very difficult moments in the beginning. (One thing that I did was to tell myself that he had died, so when issues arose that normally only he could help; I would tell myself - "he is dead, so find plan B". I also had to learn to put things/feelings/responses-to-him off, and told myself that nothing was that urgent and all could wait for 24 hours - this gave me time to cool off and not acted impulsively and emotionally).

I also hoped by setting the boundary, it would help him to "get over" me. Though I am still not certain if it is the case yet. As for me, I did go through all the stages of "battered women sydrome" and the recovery.

It has been almost 4 years, I am in a wonderful relationship with a loving and caring man. I am thankful that my ex's DDJ got him to use divorce filing as a final punishment to me, because it turned out to be the kindest gesture that he had ever done -- it set me free.

In my experience, I had to first accept the fact that I could not fight nor help him with his DDJ and it was terminal, then to set the boundary to detach, (therapies helped a lot along the way), eventually I was able to move on and be happy again.

Best wishes to both of you.

Next month it will be a year since he moved out. We are no closer to a divorce than we were then. He fired the mediator (she was on my side) and then his own lawyer (he had been influenced by my lawyer). Now he wants to "meet" and "work this out" between us.

I agreed to meet him last week, secretly hoping he had magically recovered. Silly me. Just like he has not given up his delusions, I have not given up mine -- that he will "get better" some day. I need to keep reminding myself that he is mentally ill, and that his illness requires that he punish me for his own torment. I cannot control that, and I certainly cannot cure it! I can only distance myself from his unhappiness.

I feel so sad for those of you still deep in the grip of this illness, and so grateful to those of you have have got away and come back to tell us what life is like outside of a DDJ relationship!

Still striving,
Uptohere

Now it is almost twelve years since he developed DDP and five years since DDJ. No, friends, it does not end. It gets worse. Even though he moved out two years ago, he continues to try to punish me, for the 'hurt' I caused him. Time and distance have brought some peace for me, though, and for that I am grateful. I still grieve, for the man I once loved and for the family we once were. But that man is truly gone, and the one inhabiting his body is a stranger to me. So when I have to interact with him, I find it helps to think of him as a stranger -- I can be kind and respectful, and have no expectations. It does nothing to change his behavior, but it makes me feel much better about my own!
My thoughts are with each of you, and I thank you for joining in with your stories. Best of life to you all.

evergreen wrote:I agree with leavingthedarkeness that the accusations are a projection of their issues. Primarily issues of shame. The psychiatrist explained it to me as they wants you to feel the shame they are actually feeling.

I am not entirely sure I agree with this. I feel that delusional disorder is a brain dysfunction, a brain disease, and can happen to anyone.

I do think that the psychiatrist is right, but I look at it more as, the person feels this inexplicable anger and terror and suspicion. His thoughts as well as his perceptions are damaged. Everything he or she observes in the world around him, confirms this suspicion. There is a paper gum wrapper on the kitchen table, this proves the person is fooling around. Your purse is at a different angle on the end table, that proves you met your lover today.

At the core of it to me is plain old psychosis - a brain disorder, and not a complex psychological or psychodynamic process, not the result of interpersonal conflicts or trauma - but a brain disease that kills brain cells and makes brains work abnormally. I know people would feel comforted if they thought there was some sort of psychological process that could be seen as some sort of 'rational' steps we can put a reason behind, that it has some intention, some purpose, some sort of larger sphere it acts in, and I think often even the delusional person wants to desperately believe that quite often, but I don't think that's what happens at all.

It's psychosis. People become psychotic because of a brain disease that damages how the nerves in their brain function. Whether mild (delusional disorder) or severe (schizophrenia), the same process. Worsened by trauma, worsened by substance abuse, sure. But a brain disease.

I agree it can certainly seem like a psychological process especially as it comes on gradually. But I don't think it is.

Especially early on it was a strange feeling like he was getting something out of it. He seemed to actually wanted to believe the acusations were true, and go some kind of sick pleasure out of accusing.

I know it seems like that, but again, no. It's nothing more than a person who believes their delusions. Seen it too many times. I realize that the idea that it's a brain disease is often far more upsetting ('you mean just for no reason, I suffered all this, just some random disease this guy just happened to have???? seriously????'). We feel that we can RELATE to a psychological process, we can place blame, responsibility, we can be angry at the person, we can perhaps not leave unless we can process it this way

And in some strange way, I think some INTENTIONAL, decision based process, that the person is MEAN, is being VINDICTIVE, is actually easier to take than - oh it's just a disease this person randomly got, some misfiring brain cells they were born with. We prefer to have it the other way. And as I said it may be the only way we can tear ourselves out of it.

At bottom line, WE can control our thoughts, WE can weigh information, WE can decide what to act on, WE can control ourselves, so we assume the delusional person can. WE hurt, so their behavior must be intentional. If WE did that we'd decide to, so THEY must decide to.

In fact it doesn't work that way at all. A delusion isn't an IDEA or a THOUGHT in the conventional sense that you or I know ideas and thoughts in.

It is a FIXED idea, meaning a DELUSION - that DOES NOT CHANGE NO MATTER WHAT INFORMATION IS PROVIDED OR WHAT FACTS CONTRADICT IT.

The bottom line is that we can't accept or understand what delusions are. They are symptoms of a disease. A physical, visible, measurable, quantifiable, brain abnormality. PET and fMRI can actually see them form, AND see the brain 'convince itself' it's real.

They have the same righteous indignation as anyone uncovering a REAL conspiracy - the same, 'just as I thought, I was right!' sort of triumph in 'finding the truth' - with the one important difference - they're delusional, so their conclusions are wrong.

There's no insight into the pain they are causing because they feel so justified in their conclusions.

There's no insight because they have a brain disease. They feel so justified, because they are delusional. They have no insight because they are ILL. The MORE ill they are, the less control they have over their thoughts. The less insight they have.

It's interesting that others were 'diagnosed' by their DDJs with conditions.

People with delusions often think others are ill, not because they're brats, but because their lack of insight makes it look like others are disordered. To them, the individual they are delusional about, must have some serious problem.

The key is that INSIGHT is BIOLOGICAL - NOT A DECISION, NOT an act of will. It's been shown over and over that these people CAN'T form insight unless medication tames their delusional thoughts. And most of them refuse to take it. A good stern talking to doesn't make insight form. Insight CAN'T form, because the part of the brain responsible for forming insight - is GONE. GONE. Not there any more. I usually see the more extreme end of the spectrum (schizophrenia), and that is gone. With medication they have a chance of taming those delusions, or at the very least (if extremely ill or long without treatment), of making it so they aren't so compelled to act on their delusions.

My ex thought that I had ADD (I was assessed and didn't) before any of the delusions surfaced. After the delusions the diagnosis got worse -- sexual additiction, multiple personalities, schitzoid personality (which is a joke considering how emotional I am). For a while he thought I had multiple personalities and it was other parts of myself that were out having affairs and that's why I was denying it. When I offered to be assessed - of course he said he wouldn't be convinced even if I wasn't diagnosed with it.

Of course not. Then the doctor who assessed you was wrong, or was part of the conspiracy. Delusions cause incredibly rigid thinking. There's no insight, so no other possible explanation is allowed.

I thought the 'diagnosises' he was making was a futile effort to stay in a position of power and control in the relationship as I had become more assertive a few years leading up to the onset of the delusions.

I think it just shows that the person has no insight. Nothing else.

I don't think it has anything to do with 'futile effort to stay in power', but I darn sure agree that it LOOKS like that when you're on the receiving end! Instead, it is just an example of how the delusion totally runs the show and takes over the person's thinking. People do things they never would have done, before they were ill. If they've been getting ill for a long time, you may never even have seen what they were like, when entirely without the illness.

I've seen people do incredible, incredible things in the service of delusions. They simply are not thinking rationally - it's that simple. I've seen people bankrupt themselves buying C cell batteries or thousands of copies of one book, gotten gangrene waiting outside for some event their delusions told them was crucial...and it tends to go along with lots of other symptoms such as hostility (yes, hostility is a symptom of a disease) and impulsivity (acting without thought of consequences - not being ABLE to consider consequences).

The stronger I got in the relationship the worse it deteriorated. I no longer was afraid of his anger and I think this triggered alot of his shame issues and may have contributed to the development of his pathological jealous condition.

I think not. The disease simply gets worse over time because untreated, that's how the course of the disease goes in some people.

I think people like to believe the person got worse because of A, B or C, that may be more bearable than the reality - which is - they just get worse. A lot of them do. They just keep getting worse. Doesn't matter what you do.

The true reality of delusional disorders doesn't make it any easier to deal with delusional disorders. Doesn't make it any easier to get a person to accept help. But it does make it clear that it isn't your fault.

What may be difficult to accept, is that it's no one's fault. It's not even the ill person's fault. They are being controlled by a disease that takes over their thoughts and behaviors.

But what it does make clear, is that because of the INABILITY to form insight and the UNWILLINGNESS to accept treatment in the more severely ill person, that your only rational choice, your only sensible, practical choice may be, to leave the person.

The big trouble with a person with delusional disorder is that they often are very organized and mentally sharp, the delusion may be very strong, but in other ways they may be very able. In other words, Ironically, they may actually do more harm, than a more severely ill person with schizophrenia, who can't organize himself or stick with tasks. That is the concern.

It is a relief to be away from it. But I still have to parent with him for the next 10 years or so.

It may not be that long. You may get full custody eventually, and once the kids are grown they may have nothing to do with him. If he gets worse, he's at risk for antagonizing someone with a very bad temper, or neglecting his own physical health, or even suicide. An angry, delusional person without treatment, is living a very risky life.

smithywise,

The psychiatrist said my x husband does not have a delusional disorder even though he is in fact delusional. He said it is pathological jealousy with a different underlying condition such as a personality disorder. Living with a person with a personality disorder is a very difficult thing, a person with a personality disorder and delusional jealousy is impossible.

I agree that he lacked insight because of a disordered brain, however, I disagree that the psychological make up of a person does not influence the type of delusion they develop.

Whatever helps you get through it.

I've written two long posts about my situation, and neither have appeared on the forum. I'm new, but I'm sure there is nothing inappropriate about them, I just told my story of delusional erotomania, and I could really use the help and support, anyone know why whenever I choose 'new topic' it doesn't show up?

-- Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:35 am --

I've written two long posts about my situation, and neither have appeared on the forum. I'm new, but I'm sure there is nothing inappropriate about them, I just told my story of delusional erotomania, and I could really use the help and support, anyone know why whenever I choose 'new topic' it doesn't show up?

neverending wrote:Hi to all who have contributed to this blog.
I like many here read the stories and experiences shared and I am still amazed at the similarities. As a partner of DD I too have been accused endlessly, had cameras placed around, recording devices, have to explain why I did this, why I did that, with him always believing that I am lying etc etc. Oh how simple it sounds in a couple of sentences. Its far from simple and it is neverending.....This behaviour has been going on and off for years finally a couple of years ago I had an awaking and identified what was actually wrong. For most DD sufferes it seems that they can lead a normal life, work, social life etc however, when it comes to their partners then thats a completely different story. Strangely though over the years I have noticed that initially there was a period where he could contain his thoughts, maybe the odd comment here and there. Then there were those little changes in behaviour, questioning, agitation and everything that he thought would come to the forefront.. What I have noticed is there was a time very early on when he could identify he "wasnt right" however since the last big issue he is now totally locked in there is absolutely no insight none. Finally like many of you Ive had enough. I did move out for six months as I just couldnt take the constant bombardment of accusations. Its interesting how my husband turns this around and continually blames me tells me I need help. Its sad to see someone who was such a lovely caring person change. Having said that I would like to ask something and would be interested in your responses.

Did anyone find that their partner could say and accuse them of the most awful awful things and then the next minute still try and be nice. I dont know if that makes sense but my husband thinks Im the one that is playing mind games when of course it is him. As I said I moved out for six months but thought that maybe I should move back as there was still that part of me that wondered and questioned if things could improve. Also we had a mortgage and paying rent and trying to pay bills that were his but in my name made the situation difficult. Of course moving back nothing has changed and I regret my decision however at least I now know that DD only gets worse never better at least thats my experience. Im now so so tired of him trying to act like such a nice guy, the poor husband who has had to put up with an unfaithful wife (never would I do such a thing it simply goes against who I am as a person) All the same Im finding that the problem with him having absolutely no friggen insight (sorry getting a bit annoyed) is that he can say so many hurtfull things and then tries to portray he is a nice person and its me thats being funny because I wont cuddle him or want to have an indepth conversation with him cause god knows anything I say will be taken out of context. Did anyones partners continue to be so nice but nasty??? He accuses me of mind games when he plays them, he can be very manipulative.

As for the person who wondered about changing the locks, as he keeps coming back it would probably be a good idea. I wish you and all of you only happiness because living with a DD is far from a happy enviroment. I too simply cannot take it anymore its too draining in every way. I like all of you no doubt wish it could be different but it just gets worse.

The above is a very old post, but I just wanted to say how much it resonates with me.

I just separated from my DDJ/OCD fiance....much earlier in the progress of the disorder than many here, it seems. For me, it was probably "easier" since we were not yet married, no kids, etc. But he was, and is, the love of my life, my best friend and soul mate, so it actually isn't easy at all. I can't do anything, because everything reminds me of him and of things we would do together before his illness took hold. So many emotions. So difficult.

As far as the OP's question, I just wanted to say that my man absolutely could be accusatory and then nice. He is still at the stage (or would be, had I stayed) where the accusations last a night or so, and then we could be fine for weeks.

The first three or four times the accusations happened, I was so freaked out and in denial, that when he returned to his "normal" self I just breathed a sigh of relief, prayed it would never happen again, and resolved to talk to him about treatment sometime in the future.

This last time, however, it was too much of a blow. We had just gotten engaged over the course of a picture perfect, completely romantic vacation the month before, and I had been on cloud nine dreaming of our future together, browsing wedding dresses, just being the absolute lovestruck bride to be. It had been about six weeks since the last "episode", and knowing nothing about DDJ at the time, I was convinced we were out of the woods as far as the weirdness was concerned. He'd even made me a handmade card for my birthday and booked us in for two nights plus dinner at a romantic inn...which would have been happening this coming weekend. Not the behavior of a man who is suspicious or unhappy.

Then he broke up with me, just like that.

He was accusing me of being caught in a lie and having a "tryst" with one of my apparent "contacts" in the city on one hand, and on the other hand, asking me to stil be friends and saying that the day to day of the relationship was just too much for him to handle and I ought to have the opportunity to be with someone who I can have children with (we had already discussed children and I assured him that I didn't want any--he had told me his OCD anxiety is worst around kids so he can't have any).

I shut myself in a spare room, took off my engagement ring, visibly devastated, and he couldn't understand why I didn't want to sit down to dinner and a movie with him, or why I wasn't wearing my ring. I told him, "You accused me of cheating and broke up with me. Why, if you really believe I am cheating on you, would you want to have dinner with me? You told me I need to move out and you just want to be friends....why would I wear your ring?" His response: "Well I don't have any concrete evidence yet...."

I don't think, in my case at least, that he is trying to play mind games. I think he's trying to keep me around while he figures out for sure if I am cheating....whether he can trust his thoughts, which he already knows can be unreliable due to his past OCD diagnosis....but which he can't let go of all the same. I'm sure that he has considered the hell he is putting me through if his suspicions are not true, and that feeds into his anxiety and OCD even more.

I see that it's an illness, and I'm just glad I found this forum early on, because it has seriously kept my expectations in check. Whether it's OCD, DDJ, his drinking, all those things, or something else entirely, I know it's something he will need to manage for the rest of his life. And unless he gets to a psychiatrist and is prescribed some holy grail of a medication, I know the prospects for our future are almost nil. I am afraid that since he is in his mid 40s and already tried OCD treatment years ago and felt it didn't help, he will probably choose being alone and self-medicating over trying to work things out. Especially since I, through no fault except being the most loving and attentive girlfriend ever, seem to be the (current) source of his anxiety.


Anyways, neverending, I hope you found the strength to mourn your loss and move on to live life with gusto. I am still in the grieving process and this board has helped me so much.