Questions About Relationships From Nons

Ladywith3cats,
I disagree with the idea that art is always an expression of the true self, look at Picasso's "The Weeping Woman", clearly an expression of his narcissism.

However, I wanted to answer, guys, cause I feel like what lies behind those posts is an anxiety about the existence of your true self. In case, nobody has ever told you this: your true selves, they already exist, and sometimes they go away, or are put within parenthesis. But it exists, it's just that it's struggling.

If you want to see someone without a true self, just have a look at the WalkThroughTheStorm's thread (http://www.psychforums.com/narcissistic-personality/topic88693.html). This woman, Walkthroughthestorm, has no true self in my opinion, and she'll never have one. This is not your case. You have one, but it wants to grow.

Après L Orage wrote:Ladywith3cats,
I disagree with the idea that art is always an expression of the true self, look at Picasso's "The Weeping Woman", clearly an expression of his narcissism.

However, I wanted to answer, guys, cause I feel like what lies behind those posts is an anxiety about the existence of your true self. In case, nobody has ever told you this: your true selves, they already exist, and sometimes they go away, or are put within parenthesis. But it exists, it's just that it's struggling.

If you want to see someone without a true self, just have a look at the WalkThroughTheStorm's thread (http://www.psychforums.com/narcissistic-personality/topic88693.html). This woman, Walkthroughthestorm, has no true self in my opinion, and she'll never have one. This is not your case. You have one, but it wants to grow.

What a strange thread. I could barely read through it. Does this woman still post here? She set up an official thread dedicated to herself? She speaks oddly; I can't tell if it's because she may not have English as her first language, but from what I've read she sometimes sounds almost schizophrenic or like someone with DID, with AsPD traits thrown in there. Completely lost in narcissistic delusions of grandeur. Very creepy, actually. She must be a high spectrum N. (I suspect most of us here are fairly low on the spectrum)

Is it possible for someone to not have a TS at all? What are the implications of that--is it the same as not having a soul? If she has no TS, did she ever have one? Is it a spiritual thing?

Sorry to be asking all these questions, but that thread is just a whole lot of WTF.

Ladywith3cats wrote:Is it possible for someone to not have a TS at all?

I wonder as well.

Very painful thread. It's obvious Storm doesn't value her daughter in the present, in the here-and-now.

She relives the past over and over. How does the concept of TS relate to the past?

realityhere, the WalkThroughTheStorm thread is indeed a very painful thread. And it illustrates perfectly what narcissism pushed to an extreme does: the false self is so prominent that the person can't help doing little else but confabulating (as opposed to the glimmers/moments of lucidity folks with narcissistic traits experience depending on their height on the spectrum).

I wanted to be more specific about what I wrote above, I wrote that she does not have a true self. But I could have been more specific, it's more that her real self is so little that he might not as well be there. I do not believe in the complete absence of a false self as Ladywith3cats pointed it out up here. But rather that it can be so impoverished that the person is not able to use it as an interface with the world, ever. It seems more like an asymptotic (you can get really close to zero, but it is never absolute zero) process than an on/off switch.

I believe that rehashing the past is the symptom of a hurt not being processed. The mind keep getting back to the hurt without being able to make significant improvement in terms of well being. It is something that happens to neurotypicals as well. Of course, this process gets magnified by the the narcissistic injury itself. Which is why somebody with NPD will have a harder time moving on than neurotypicals. I believe that WalkThroughTheStorm tendency to rehash the past is actually simply proportional to the magnitude of her narcissistic injuries. And reflects on her capacity to move on: which is close to none.

realityhere wrote:How does the concept of TS relate to the past?

Did I answer your question?

Hi there,

I am a recovering alcoholic. Addiction is merely a symptom of my illness. What I have learned about my disease is that I was using alcohol to hide from my narcissism. On top of this I am also with someone who is an N. So I have been on both sides of this disorder.

You are right about the false self. That's what ego is. I believe that ego feeds off of resent. You can ask any addict or alcoholic what the number one offense that causes relapse is and they will tell you that it's resent. To resent to to relive the past.

What I find interesting is that it always seemed that I was reliving past pain, and never past joy. Even if I tried to relive past joy, the residual emotions were never even close to being as strong as reliving past pain. I believe the ego uses this pain and even amplifies it every time the memory is relived so that it can justify doing horrible things in retaliation for whatever perceived wrong was done to them. The ego hates to be bruised or questioned, because if the person actually looked there, they would easily see what everyone else sees. Which is a world of deceit and lies. All built around allowing the person to be judge, jury, and executioner in any given situation.

The ego even lies to the narcissist. It tells them that their actions were justified. All of this perpetuates the narcissism. The mother of my daughter is an N. She knows that something is wrong with her, and has been seeking treatment for over 7 years and has yet to be diagnosed. I told her what I believe the problem is and of course, I was promptly told that I was the narcissist. She is now at the point where she doesn't know that not telling me about pertinent information is deception, and that telling me she won't do something, then weeks later she does it is a lie. No matter how many awful things she does to me and my kids, she thinks that she's a good person that just does bad things sometimes. I told her that bad people are not bad 24/7. She replied that yes, bad people sometimes do good, and good people sometimes do bad. My question is, where is the line?

What a thread...WTTS might be nursing the hurt to feel superior to her daughter, but 13 years...wow. She is just lost...all the delusions about her daughters' and others' envy...me against the world, holding the fort of FS at all costs.

I do this too, I find myself still angry about what seems to be big grievances with NPD spouse. Trying to activate he erasure switch, but it's difficult when these keep happening, with no sense of regret, or apologies, and all manners of whitewashing.

I sometimes wonder if the anger and hurt are signs of my own NPD, but I conclude that my decision to leave is probably due to my determination to avoid any further pain inflected by NPD spouse in the present or future.

Pangloss wrote:What a thread...WTTS might be nursing the hurt to feel superior to her daughter, but 13 years...wow. She is just lost...all the delusions about her daughters' and others' envy...me against the world, holding the fort of FS at all costs.

This is a pretty accurate description of WalkThroughTheStorm. I like it.

Pangloss wrote:I do this too, I find myself still angry about what seems to be big grievances with NPD spouse. Trying to activate he erasure switch, but it's difficult when these keep happening, with no sense of regret, or apologies, and all manners of whitewashing.

I sometimes wonder if the anger and hurt are signs of my own NPD, but I conclude that my decision to leave is probably due to my determination to avoid any further pain inflected by NPD spouse in the present or future.

The trick is to be able to disengaged. But it is a very difficult thing to do when it triggers earlier memory by a caregiver. The bad news is that sometimes you need to put some actual, physical distance in order to be able to do so. Although disengaging is good for you, if the partner is not willing or able to put in some work, then it is still a relationship stalemate.

Some of the things that someone with NPD say that's hidden abuse-

Me: Most people wouldn't do what you did - (Move 800 miles away leaving the person you claim to love to improve our situation) but leaving them behind.
N: I'm not like most people. (I'm special and Unique)

After discard:
N: Go ahead and date, if you think you can find someone good looking. ( Meaning he doesn't think you can find someone as attractive as he is)

N: I'm not dating, because I'm not attracted to older women, and the women I'm attracted to are younger, and I can't date a younger women, until I have a better paying job and money. (When you're both 50 yo) In other words- I don't find you attractive because you're 50.

Me: I'm not feeling well and coughing a bit.
N: Can't you take some more cough meds? Actually, why don't you go home. I don't want to get sick. Would you leave please. ( Can't be caring or kind if you're ill, you're broken)

What are some of your experiences?

Hi RopedIn,

I think it's one way of seeing things. But there is another layer:

RopedIn wrote:Me: Most people wouldn't do what you did - (Move 800 miles away leaving the person you claim to love to improve our situation) but leaving them behind.
N: I'm not like most people. (I'm special and Unique)

--> I've not been heard as a child, my way of being heard now is to present myself as superior in order to be sure I won't be overlooked.

RopedIn wrote:After discard:
N: Go ahead and date, if you think you can find someone good looking. ( Meaning he doesn't think you can find someone as attractive as he is)

--> I am insecure about everything in my life so I will bank on my looks and hope that it'll blind people about my other defects.

RopedIn wrote:N: I'm not dating, because I'm not attracted to older women, and the women I'm attracted to are younger, and I can't date a younger women, until I have a better paying job and money. (When you're both 50 yo) In other words- I don't find you attractive because you're 50.

--> I am insecure about my age and afraid of growing old without having made sense of my life, so I'll just split and project this insecurity onto you.

RopedIn wrote:Me: I'm not feeling well and coughing a bit.
N: Can't you take some more cough meds? Actually, why don't you go home. I don't want to get sick. Would you leave please. ( Can't be caring or kind if you're ill, you're broken)

--> I am completely overwhelmed by own issue. If you start to have issues yourself, I'll feel like I drown. Why don't you go home in order for me not to feel overwhelmed.


What happens each time is that you are personalizing. And this is where it hurts. The thing though, the healthier you are, the less you personalize. The fact that it hurts show that he is using your own fears against you, in order to keep his own fears in check.