Questions About Relationships From Nons

Thank you Truth Too Late, for your insights. It helps, and you are quite clear in your answers, I do get them.

You have both similarities and differences from the N in my life, the narratives you described ring true, he has all sorts of narratives about me he and his mom are convinced, and unfortunately he took to convincing my friends and support network. For example, I am the pwNPD, he the victim, etc.

He has very strong logic-impairment, that was a piece I couldn't fit into the puzzle, until I came across the post about "analysis by egg-beater", and that was a bingo.

It is different from your narratives, but perhaps it isn't? By this, I mean he falls easily for cons, cons that normals will usually suspect as too good to be true. Sometimes, even when the problems are obvious, he is just blind to them, eg severe alcoholics or pathological liars will not make good business partners yet off he goes despite how desperately I pointed out the logic of keeping at an arm's pace.

I think that makes it even more difficult for him to ever recover, the fog is thicker and he is further along the spectrum.

The question for any Nons is what we staying in this for? Seriously, not much....and whatever little left they can offer Ns will usually refuse, this is their final power trip.

Pangloss wrote:It is different from your narratives, but perhaps it isn't? By this, I mean he falls easily for cons, cons that normals will usually suspect as too good to be true.

I tended to be cynical and cautious, playing devil's advocate. It was a way to be unique. Everyone's fake nice. I can be real. So, I didn't fall for bad contracts, con artists, Nigerian emails. I didn't play the lottery (a sucker's game).

But, I could be easily manipulated in professional and personal relationships. If you reflect the right image to me (kiss up to me, or present yourself as a narcissist who favors me as an invert) I wouldn't be as critical (of motives, veracity).

I don't think I'd go as far as a business partnership or investment. But, I could invest time and personal energy in it.

I see more cognitive dissonance in my N, but it could also be his overriding desire to believe in the con. Many of these cons are, not surprisingly, narcissists themselves, eg one pretended to be the jetset ferrari-driving heir to a wealthy retail business family, another bragged about Dubai connections, etc...

I could smell it from a mile away, but not him. I suppose it fits too well into his fantasy narrative of associating with "special superior people" and I'm the killjoy in the larger scheme of things .

Long story very short. I had an affair with man I realized had NPD. After nearly a year, I ran into his primary GF (by accident) and told her about the affair. I thought it was over, but he eventually came back and we resumed our affair. He was very paranoid about my exposing it again, to the point of checking me for wires and refusing to put anything in text. I decided I was really actually done for real this time, and changed my number. Then he left a note at my house, which really pissed me off, so I texted his gf and told her we'd been cheating again. This morning she confronted him, he denied it of course. But apparently is very angry. Rereading her text makes me think she is a little afraid of him.

I was trying to trigger some sort of discard with him. I was hoping if I made him angry enough, then he would decide I was dead to him or something. Now that I know he was so angry, I'm wondering if I should be afraid. I've seen his temper in small amounts, but I don't know if N's are vengeful, or if he would just rather pretend I never existed. Anyone having experience? I don't mind being discarded. I'd be happy to never hear from him again.

slanie wrote:I was trying to trigger some sort of discard with him. I was hoping if I made him angry enough, then he would decide I was dead to him or something. Now that I know he was so angry, I'm wondering if I should be afraid. I've seen his temper in small amounts, but I don't know if N's are vengeful, or if he would just rather pretend I never existed. Anyone having experience?

You had a thread or two talking about this. No contact means no contact, not gaslighting him through his other sources of supply. If he contacts you, you ignore it. Leaves a note on the door, throw it away (or, call the police and report stalking as the first step in obtaining a restraining order.).

slanie wrote:I don't mind being discarded. I'd be happy to never hear from him again.

Just make that choice and stick with it. It's entirely in your control. It depends on how serious you are about it.

What's done is done. There's nothing gained by speculating how you've invited his anger into your life. What are you going to do if he exhibits anger? Do you have 911 on speed dial? Are you willing to use it?

Truth, thank you, and yes. I plan to use 911 if he shows up. I know it was impulsive to tell her, and I regret stooping so low. I don't feel hurt by him anymore, so I don't know why. I guess a petty part of me wanted revenge. I just felt angry knowing that he gets away with so much and I, and everyone in his life, let him. Still, it wasn't my place.

Speculating on inviting anger? Good point. I hadn't thought of it that way.

I am 7 weeks NC with my ex N gf. She has hoovered 1x, this was last week. She discarded me very abruptly, thinking she had the new supply lined up already. I never got a word in and she refuses to talk, which I am coming to accept as it would do no good anyhow to show any more emotion. She blocked me on FB, I have my reasons as to why she did that. However, left me on instagram. Before you tell me to get off instagram, I am already aware and not the the reason for this post. The question is..the new bf has 3 kids and all pictures have been with the ex N, her autistic 3yr old son and only one of the new bf's daughters. We had talked of trying to have a girl when we were together but it never got to the point of really trying. QUESTION..what is the n's fascination with his daughter? If she were trying to really hurt me, she'd have pictures of them looking like a family? There have been no pictures of her with the new bf, or her with any of his other children, just the one daughter. I do miss her and her son. The last two years where so complicated. These last 7 weeks have been hell. Any thoughts regarding my question would be really appreciated.

kentuckyusa wrote:The question is..the new bf has 3 kids and all pictures have been with the ex N, her autistic 3yr old son and only one of the new bf's daughters. ... what is the n's fascination with his daughter?

There may be no fascination. It may be coincidence. This is why you should remove yourself from instagram.

If you're looking for psychological reasons, it's likely she's reliving something. The daughter is a mini version of herself. Maybe she connected with that daughter due to the girl's age. Could be meaningful to you ex's due to something that happened to her at that age. Maybe she sees an ally to divide and conquer against the girl's father.

Why do you care about this? No contact means no contact. Stop thinking about it. Without being self-aware, she's not salvageable. You're torturing yourself for no reason. She didn't love you. She loved the image of her she saw through you. She's not capable of love. She's in love with the idea of being in love. She knows nobody can meet her standards. That's because she knows no reflected image of herself can ever satisfy her.

I'm really sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place, I'm a new member so still getting the hang of this.

I've been in a relationship for the past 5 years with a man who I love very much. He has a very difficult background- he was sexually and physically abused as a child and had to move out of home at 17. He was very promiscuous in the past and then was damaged further by the death of a girlfriend and then his last girlfriend who aborted his baby. He is very narcissistic but more than that, I think he finds it hard to cope with close relationships.

My question is not about whether this relationship is good for me or co-dependent, I recognise the patterns. I love him and there are often very good sides to our relationship- I wouldn't have stuck with him otherwise.

He also suffers badly with rheumatoid arthritis and this makes him respond very badly to stress. He barely copes with work and his condition. I think it has made his personality more 'rigid'.

Over the past 5 years there have been maybe 7 or 8 occasions when my bf will get very angry/ offended after an argument and will blank my calls, texts for weeks on end. He also does this to his friends- if someone stresses him out he just won't answer their calls and speak to them for ages.

In the past, after he wouldn't speak to me for 3 weeks I texted him that I was so sorry and I was really down. He sent me the text 'you're red-flagged at the moment' which was really weird wording. (I'm mentioning the wording for a reason).

Fast forward to this past month. We had a big argument, made up and were getting on well on the phone, then a big work opportunity came up for me and he became really difficult, off with me. I asked him if he could get hold of some weed for a 77 year old mutual friend who asked me to ask him and I asked him if he would help me put up a picture up and he sent back 'no and no'. I told him his response was a bit harsh.

After the work opportunity finished, I tried to be back in touch and he's been blanking me. I rang twice this weekend- he didn't pick up so I texted him and said I was extremely down and I cared about him. In the past he would sometimes respond to this.

This time he waited till the next evening and I got the text 'I'm so checked out of you right now'. This isn't a normal phrase or one I've ever heard before, it's a weird contrived turn of phrase from him.

My friend really stressed me out by saying this means he's dumping me. But couldn't it be like the times before when he was saying he was pissed off but not ending things? I texted him back, 'I didn't understand what your text meant. Are you saying the relationship is over? I care about you and it might be better to talk x". He hasn't replied so I'm just gonna give him space but have a lot of anxiety about what's going on. I'm trying to distract myself and spend time with friends but the uncertainty is very stressful.

Please don't write back judging the relationship- I know it's co-dependent, abusive- I've had a lot of therapy I know all that but I love him a lot. If we make things up this time- which I'm really worried we won't, I'm going to try and get the relationship into a more healthy place. He is 52, I am 35.

Katie35 wrote:He is very narcissistic but more than that, I think he finds it hard to cope with close relationships.

That is narcissism. A fake confidence. It becomes clear when the confidence is put to a test. For example, he may exhibit confidence in the idea of being in love. But, when faced with the requirement of being intimate (loving another), he'll sabotage the relationship. For me, it's a result of applying a 4 year-old's emotional schema or template. The template is based upon things that are long-forgotten and have no reference to what I'm experiencing in reality.

Katie35 wrote:He also suffers badly with rheumatoid arthritis and this makes him respond very badly to stress. He barely copes with work and his condition. I think it has made his personality more 'rigid'.

This is common. His limitation can't be "narrated" away in his mind. Most narcissists face this in old age. Their bodies remind them of the reality they've lied about for an entire life. They take it out on everyone around them for mirroring their frailty to them. We dislike our dependence on others to mirror what we need to see. That dependence/contempt becomes more pronounced in old age and infirmity. It becomes a bitter-filled senility. An old person who feels both entitled and angry at those who give him what he deserves.

It's probably similar for younger narcissist facing an early-affliction or disability.

Katie35 wrote:will blank my calls, texts for weeks on end. He also does this to his friends- if someone stresses him out he just won't answer their calls and speak to them for ages.

That's the "narrative."[1] He lives in a semi-realistic form of schizophrenia. It's an inflated inner "movie" or lens he interprets reality through. D&D (devalue and discard) is just "writing someone out of the script." They don't serve a purpose anymore. The "script" is more important than reality. Reality is modified to meet the inner confabulation, not the other way around.

There is an underlying sense of haughtiness which can be like vindictiveness, sadistic. Like "teaching that person a lesson." It's more disappointment that the person couldn't play the necessary role. It's part of the childhood template. For example, if he was neglected/abused by his mother at an early age, he could be replaying that relationship, reliving the emotions. It's not a calculated sadism. It's more like a response which he feels is justified by his relation to the other person. He'll think everyone does this, weighs relationships, casts off people who aren't productive. He won't realize he has an amplified need for people to "produce." (Nor a stunted empathy towards his abrupt send offs. He's too focused on his inner narrative to detect how his behavior makes others feel. It's not that he can't be sensitive to it. It's that the narrative consumes his time, it makes him hypervigilant to protect himself that he can't think how others fee. To the extent they feel anything, they deserve it for not performing according to his narrative.).

Katie35 wrote:This time he waited till the next evening and I got the text 'I'm so checked out of you right now'. This isn't a normal phrase or one I've ever heard before, it's a weird contrived turn of phrase from him.

It's the narrative. He has literally "split" you. He's painted you black and that's the role you play in his inner narrative.

You disappointed him by having another priority in your life (work and a friend you had time to help). You could admit this to him and explain how you understand his way of seeing things, that you've "learned." You might have to say it every day, remind him of the times he painted you all white. He can unsplit you as easily as he split you.

If you really understand his condition and can work with it like that, accepting his behavior as something that isn't intended to be personal, you might be able to work with it. Personally, I don't think it could ever be remotely to gratifying to you unless he was self-aware and could try to meet your needs, able to discuss his motivations more clearly. I.e., a recognition that his standard-self isn't a "level playing field" for others. You might be able to help him see himself. You have to realize that he sees himself as extremely incapable, vulnerable, insecure, etc. All the things that are opposite of what he projects (with his cavalier valuing and devaluing people as if he's God).

(As far as I know, the forum exists for both Ns and nons. I don't think you have to restrict yourself to this thread. I see nons start threads without a problem. But, nothing wrong with adding onto this thread.).

[1] I don't yet have a single, distinct write-up. I've described it here:

Long description of "narrative" (the parts of me)

narcissistic-personality/topic163581-20.html#p1689736
- Dabading "noise", Esquire, me on similarity to nextdoor argument, compulsion of slowing to view road accident
narcissistic-personality/topic163364.html
- Grant Lee Buffalo
post1690478.html?hilit=vibe#p1690478
- Narrative monkey
post1687448.html?hilit=vibe#p1687448
- ADD is the noise?
narcissistic-personality/topic163319-10.html#p1682959
narcissistic-personality/topic163319-10.html#p1683041
- To Akuma
narcissistic-personality/topic164252-10.html#p1695432