HPD's - Creating jealousy to hurt people

* Question aimed more at HPD's but I'd like to hear non-HPD's experiences too *

Out of curiosity...

Is it a pretty standard trait of HPD's to create jealousy to purposefully create pain for people who love them?

For example - relentless efforts to make a lover jealous by showing interest in other men/women, both by deliberate and direct means and/or even just by subtle suggestion.

If the answer is yes to this question and HPD's succesfully create jealousy and a reaction from the intended 'hurtee', is it then normal for HPD's to show anger towards the person for showing their jealousy or is the HPD more likely to sit back and enjoy it quietly?

HPD just like drama, any drama. If they know you get jealous they might flirt just to wind you up. then enjoy the reaction. I would think they would get angry and make a fuss, a BIG fuss. Over reaction is their middle name!
HPDs sexual boundaries are pretty blurred at the best of times.

You just described their M.O. perfectly. The paradox is that sure, they try to make you jealous, but you usually SHOULD be! A sign of ASPD in my opinion.

From my limited experience, the woman I met enjoyed the jealousy game.

I figured she got multiple benefits out of it including:

1.) It left her feeling empowered (i.e., the upper hand in the relationship).

2.) If I reacted it re-affirmed she was valuable, worth being angry/fighting over. If I didn't react there was another benefit (more below).

3.) She might have taken some twisted pleasure in seeing me hurt (this may be related to #1, essentially someone who feels weak inside, hurting others makes some people feel stronger).

4.) She enjoyed (needed?) the affirmation of many others and was not necessarily always aware of the effect it had on me. Besides hey, if her and 20 fan members are enjoying her flirting, and I'm the only one who isn't, doesn't that suggest I have the problem? (yes I'm being sarcastic).

5.) Plus it's a great, and entirely 'innocent' test, where you can't win

What I mean is on some level I think those with HPD are always shopping for more validation, a better relationship, etc., so jealousy is one of those games where they can disavow any responsibility ('who me? i was just flirting, what's the big deal?') while at the same time testing, keeping one's options open, since either way you react you lose. If you feel jealous you lose (this makes you weak which leads to the person with HPD thinking they could be with someone stronger, like they are cause hey, if you were stronger you could handle them flirting with others, which is fun for them), and if you don't feel jealous you lose (this suggests you don't care, so the person with HPD could think hey, maybe I should be with someone else who wants me more?).

Of course long term jealousy games are fail because eventually we just stop caring, and want to salvage our own pride. Yet on some level that's what the person with HPD wants too. For us to abandon them, which re-affirms what they knew all along, we didn't really love them and someone else will. Like maybe one of the fans they've been flirting with (who don't care that they flirt, because they are not emotionally invested and just want the attention, and maybe a shot at sex).

Oh yes, a standard histrionic manipulation tool. It's literally sadistic how they enjoy seeing you hurt or distressed just for their own amusement. It's a form of validation to affirm that they can control and manipulate your emotions so easily. Another variant on this strategy is to try and set up competitions and have two (or more) men working their butts off to out-do the other. They won't be angry because they enjoy it and get so much satisfaction from it. They will gaslight or offer insincere consolation by trying to convince you that it's an inappropriate reaction, you have unfounded insecurities, an overactive imagination, etc. And then do it all over again. It's the best kind of drama and attention for them.

xdude and santa fe..

These points seem so true it makes me feel sick.

shock wrote:xdude and santa fe..

These points seem so true it makes me feel sick.

If it helps any, the few times I flirted as she did (note, she told me to flirt with others as she does) left her utterly hurt and angry, i.e., jealous. Which is of course no surprise at all She took it the same way most people would. Turning my attention sexually (or even just too much praise or too much interest) in favor of some other woman of course left her feeling hurt, which is a 'duh'. The only part that is mystifying is why she was incapable of empathy, but that's another aspect to the disorder that feeds into the whole problem.

The emotion of jealousy, despite popular myth promoted by those who play jealousy games, is a painful emotion and sometimes valid to feel. Just like it's perfectly valid to feel angry at times. All emotions have evolved because they have their place/purpose. Of course it's not black and white. On the extreme end of the scale are those who are jealous out of paranoia, but in the healthy middle grey area jealousy is a normal emotion.

Really if she had been good with me flirting with others I'd have to see it all quite differently, and in fact until I did, I took it at face value that she sees flirting as just all good. Except the reality it was only fun for her when she was creating the jealousy, rather like it's only fun for the torturer who'd scream and beg for mercy if the situation was reversed.

There is really nothing to feel sick about. You should stand up for yourself, and know when to say 'no' when someone is hurting you, and do so without feeling guilty or sick about it.

Good luck in healing.

xdude wrote:There is really nothing to feel sick about. You should stand up for yourself, and know when to say 'no' when someone is hurting you, and do so without feeling guilty or sick about it.

Good luck in healing.

Again, wise words which shall be heeded. Thanks.

At least I'm happy in myself that any jealousy I felt was valid and within the realms of normality. Just wish I hadn't put up with it for so long!

shock wrote:...Just wish I hadn't put up with it for so long!

Like sante fe wrote, and I can relate myself too (as can many others from what I've read here), many of us put up with it for a long time. Gas lighting, insincere apologies, invalidating our feelings, all work quite well to leave us doubting ourselves.

There is another couple I know; she is clearly HPD and he tolerates the flirting. When he is not around she is really bad about it (so it's not purely a jealousy driven thing on her part), but she does it when he is present too. It's so bad sometimes people do call her on it, what would your BF think?

Her answer is (paraphrased) 'I flirt so much because he trusts me'. Which is complete BS. She flirts for herself, because she needs the attention and validation. It so happens that her BF trusts her, but if her reason for flirting is to re-affirm his trust, that means she doesn't trust that he trusts and needs to constantly test his trust (irony!). But really that's not it.

She does it for herself, and he being the passive type lets it go on and on, suppressing, though on occasion I've seen him lose it Particularly when other guys are laughing at him and giving him advice on how not to lose her (yea, we guys love it when our woman flirts with other men and they give us advice on how not to lose her ).

The whole situation is bound to go badly. He is hurt over and over and sucks it up. He doesn't tell her 'nope, not okay, that hurts', so it reinforces her behavior. I guess because he has her up on a pedestal and doesn't want to lose her. Which is all great for her, perfect. And a terrible deal for him. The sad thing is her fans don't really see her as all that great. They just get their ego stroked when she flirts with them, and since she acts sexually provactive, and being guys, they're likely just following their instinct. Be agreeable to the hot sexually provactive woman because there is a chance (even if the chance is very very small) they'll get some

Really the only loser in the deal is him. The fans are happy. She is happy. I predict he'll just keep building up resentment until one day, reach his breaking point and the jealous feelings will stop because he'll reach the point where he doesn't care about her anymore. Just human nature. In the mean time it's a great deal for her and she has fans as back up BFs What fun huh?

xdude wrote:stuff...

Yeah.

Crikey, it's theraputic this. To see other people seeing and thinking things exactly as I have. I'm glad it's not just me.

You know, there was an incidence recently where I challenged her about a very provocative picture she had posted on facebook which had been taken by another bloke other than her boyfriend. I asked her if (seeing as she 'loved' her boyfriend) she really thought it clever to have this picture on facebook and why on earth she might think it wouldn't wind him up. Her response was, "No, he's seen it, he likes it!" - yeah - like ###$ he does !

The thing is, originally this picture was on the other blokes facebook acount and as she thought it was in his private photo's, had written the comment "I hope my boyfriend doesn't see this " Well, I let her know if I could see it, so could her boyfriend. Dunno if that would have annoyed her or actually made her happier because of the jealousy it would have created!