Support for Non-Histrionic Personality Disorder

MsIndependent wrote:Any resources or tips would be seriously appreciated.

All I can suggest is that you try to identify boundaries that are acceptable for you, and then privately discuss them with her. You don't have to tolerate anything which makes you feel uncomfortable. And once you've established the lines, it's on her to avoid crossing them. If she fails, enforce them by calling her out on it (again privately). If the behavior continues, you may have to continue clarifying to her where she's crossing the line and delicately suggest some counseling to her. Offer to go with her if that would help.

The sad thing is, many HPD's refuse to believe there is anything wrong with them and will aggressively defend their ego against any perceived threat.

For example: My HPD ex-wife told me she hated her brain and thought she was going crazy. I tried to be as supportive as possible and suggested counseling. She did, and the counselor suggested she start taking anti-depressants. She didn't like the idea and shortly afterwards she opted to blame me instead by labeling me as the only possible reason for her unhappiness. She nuked our marriage within a matter of days. The lie factory went into full production. She told everyone she knew that she was afraid of me. She then took our children out of our house, moved to a different county, and filed for divorce. Her list of lies was mind-boggling to me and my family (147 by my count). She wanted to make sure everyone in her fan club would side with her, so she could live out the rest of her life knowing that everyone else believed she was justified in making such a rash decision. I tried getting custody of my children but her smear campaign was just too much. Even though a PhD shrink reported she had a marked elevation on the histrionic scale (I paid for the evals on both of us), the custody evaluation FOC knothead felt bad for her and labeled me as abusive and controlling based on zero evidence whatsoever. The judge actually threatened me to give up my rights to my children or else get left with supervised visitation with my kids.... I was scared and completely devastated by the whole mess. It was hell on earth.

It took a very long time to recover, but it definitely taught me some very important life lessons. There are delusional people everywhere and just because other people have negative opinions of me doesn't mean I have to accept them as truth. I think people like my ex-wife enjoy the benefits of learning this same lesson way before everybody else, but in their case it's akin to a driver going the wrong way on the interstate and calling 911 to complain about all the other drivers.

Hey Everyone. I've got a questions about the whole idealization-devaluation-discard phase thing.,,

I once knew a young woman who I am pretty certain was suffering from HPD. We decided one night to get a hotel room together and she became overtly sexual and exhibitionistic. I interpreted her behavior as a go sign, but when I reached for her, she curled up in a ball and played dead fish. No words or response from her the whole night. It was like I triggered something in her and she just shut down. We both slept the night and in the morning she was still giving me the "cold shoulder" or some kind of nonverbal disapproval reaction. I don't know. It was all so bizarre. Angered by her lack of communication, what felt like a perverse set up, and the fact that I must have meant jack bleep to her, I walked away.

I'm fairly certain from what I have read online that she has HPD tendencies if not fully diagnosed. But I wonder about it because... with me... There was never really an idealization stage. I chased her for a long time. I got tired and walked away from it all. She comes back and asks if I would like to meet up. We do. And she shuts me out. Is that consistent with cluster b behavior? Does there always need to be an idealization stage to get discarded?

Hi everybody I am Daisy.
I have been browsing the forums here for a few days and have decided to post my story…the short version.

I believe that for the past 8 years I have been working for a woman in her 50's who has HPD. When I was 21 I moved from the UK to Canada. I was with an agency and she as the employer wanted to hire me. I was completely and utterly manipulated from the moment I stepped off the plane. She was charming, and friendly and made me feel like part of the family. The job I was going to be doing for her sounded wonderful and it was. Over the past 8 years I have become mildly depressed and have been in therapy. I believe I am doing a lot better. But the main subject of my therapy was talking about my relationship with my boss. It has become an obsession. She has become a virus that is in me and I can't seem to think about anything else. She has made my world rotate around her. I have come here to vent, to meet people who have had the same experiences and to be able to talk about this and stop it getting into my own life and my own relationships (my boyfriend is sick of hearing about her).

Things have become increasingly strained over the past 2 years. I have began to grow as a person, and she is trying to throw as many obstacles in my way, her main power is guilt. She makes me feel incredibly guilty, she tells me she has invested in me and my career (which is going nowhere because intact she is not as 'trained' in our field as she made out to be and has not been able to give me any new opportunities) She helped me make a new life for myself. I know I can quit. But right now, i'm not strong enough to do that, even though I have the support of my loving boyfriend and family.

This all came up because when I tell people who don't know her, how she is they are normally quite horrified and amused that there are people actually like her in the world.

I have noticed how incredibly rude and dismissive she is to store workers, gas attendants, etc. She has a 'i'm better than you all' attitude and if I am out in public with her I cringe with embarrassment. In fact I end up being over friendly to the person she has been mean to, just to try and make them feel better. 8 years of dealing with this, boy do I have some stories. So I did some researching, I basically googled 'attention seeking' and HPD came up. I nearly fell off my chair. I watched a hpd video that somebody had posted on her and laughed out loud, it was like watching her on tv.

So I looked at the symptoms, and this is what I found about them in relation to her.

1. Constant craving for attention. BINGO. Theres too many stories for this one, But the one I found most bizarre is. I live on the property she owns, and after firing the girl who worked with me and just wanting me at her place (yes keep the girl who never says no, fire the girl who eventually said no) she decided we would renovate the house and get all new furniture. I was 21 and had no furniture and had only been working there for a few months so it sounded like a great idea. Well she hired a boy to come over and help out, he was a new friend of mine. He helped us work on the house. Him and I built the new bed that was going to be in my room and we were joking around and laughing and having a good time, when from downstairs she yelled up in a very rude tone 'Daisy Can you stop flirting with that man and do some work?' The pair of us were mortified. It was a very inappropriate and rude thing to yell, and it really ruined the fun we were having. But it made me realize that it was because she was alone downstairs, and nobody was giving her any attention.

2. Extreme sensitivity. I have never said no to this woman. Her happy mood can flip to anger as soon as you even think, 'no I can't go grocery shopping for you'. She is NEVER wrong. And she will go at great lengths to ensure that you know she is not wrong. Once her daughter gave her the address of a friends house that she wanted dropping off at. The address was wrong. The girl who was 15 at the time, swore that she gave her the correct address. Her mother swore down that she didn't. The mother was so upset that nobody believed her she stormed off to get her phone to start looking through the messages, to which the young daughter said "Mom if it means that much to you to be right, just say i was wrong' The daughter actually said don't worry about it, fine i'm wrong. But that wasn't good enough. She had to be right. The mother was in fact right, the young daughter looked very embarrassed and said 'See you were right and I was wrong, are you happy now?' The mother by then had stopped listening.

3. Creating Drama. Do you know somebody that has planned their mothers funeral and sent 'programmes' out to her close family telling them what their 'jobs' are going to be for this affair? Maybe, you do. Did they do this when the mother was not dead? Maybe not so much. My boss recently wrote a 6 page programme and sent it by mail to her brothers, the plans for her not dead mothers funeral were enclosed and what they will handle. The jobs went from 'security' to 'booking hotels for all the guests'. It was like, life was too quiet and too boring and she just sat there thinking, what can I do to get some attention and create some drama…oh this will piss everybody off. Which of course it did, it was cold and morbid. She now has caused a fight between her and her brothers. She seemed very happy about this!

4. They talk a lot. She never stops. Today she held me hostage as I was trying to leave, she talked at me for 30 minutes. About her, her and more her. I think I nodded for about 30 minutes. And then when you dare to talk, you better say it fast because she has NO problem with totally interrupting you. She had two guests over for dinner one time and her husband asked one of the guests how he was enjoying his new car, The guest began talking about his car, 5 words in, she swooped in, 'Did you see what the weather will be like tomorrow?" The guest was embarrassed and said 'I guess thats the end of that conversation', to which she heard, but she doesn't care, the attention is back on her. Not only does she interrupt all the time, but not even about what you were talking about, there is no flow of conversation. She starts a conversation, she gives you her opinion, you go to give yours, and she changes the subject.

5. Unstable moods. You never know who she is going to be that morning. If she is 'sick' she speaks in a very quite voice like she is on her death bed and she moves slowly around. If she is happy she speaks in a child like voice and sings when theres no noise. her main song is 'if your happy and you know it' If she is down, she doesn't speak…which of course means you then have to ask her whats wrong. If she's angry, she yells and she gets really idiotic, things she says are not reasonable, she gets confused easily.

There are a ton of examples I can give. But the most disturbing one is when she tells everybody that for a period of her life she was 'sick' and unable to live a normal life. A lot of people who only know her as an acquaintance believe she had cancer. She had a hysterectomy followed by an appendectomy. She took two years of her life 'off'. She took a year to 'recover' from her hysterectomy. She then had a appendectomy which also took her a year to recover from. She will now tell people, 'when I was very sick for a period of my life' …. She wasn't sick. She had two surgeries.

She is the most selfish person I have ever met, the most selfish person that thinks she is the most selfless person in the world. She is currently planning on building her elderly 'not dead' mother a place on her property, why? Because she is a loving daughter who wants to spend more time with her mother before she is gone. No. Because she doesn't want to have to drive an hour to see her mother in a home.

I could go on for days, and I do. I talk to myself over and over about this. The funny thing is, i probably only spend a few hours with her in a day and it consumes me. I want to be free.

D xx

Welcome Daisy,

DaisyChain18 wrote:She has made my world rotate around her.

Yeah, HPD's can be good at that.

DaisyChain18 wrote:I have come here to vent, to meet people who have had the same experiences and to be able to talk about this...

Vent away. Many here have the unfortunate experience of dealing with a HPD in one way or another. Unlike most Non's ("normal people") many here know what it's like.

DaisyChain18 wrote:I know I can quit. But right now, i'm not strong enough to do that, even though I have the support of my loving boyfriend and family.

Quitting and going NC (no contact) is probably the only way you're going to feel better.

DaisyChain18 wrote:...they are normally quite horrified and amused that there are people actually like her in the world.

Most Non's, including family and friends, are usually clueless. In my case they've been next to useless because they simply don't understand.

DaisyChain18 wrote:She is the most selfish person I have ever met, the most selfish person that thinks she is the most selfless person in the world.

Technically I wouldn't call HPD's "selfish". The issue is more that you (and everyone else) gives but they give nothing/very little in return. It may look "selfish" but that's not what's really going on.
[Being selfish requires one to actually possess a self]

If you really want to understand HPD (and/or other Cluster B's) you'll have to do a lot of reading. They're actually quite complicated (and interesting) but few (except therapists) delve into their psyche.

Hey DaisyChain18,

While we can't diagnose here, yes no doubt that creating near constant drama, needing to always be right, talking excessively (especially combined with not listening), attention seeking, and so on, end up being a drain on others.

Sadly, one thing that really complicates this is that odds are others who don't know her well will initially find her entertaining, amusing, fun to be around and well... that further decreases the odds that she will grasp why the same thing that others initially find attractive also ends up being the thing that drives others away.

So... since people who exhibit these habits and ways of thinking are not likely to change, all you can do is make a choice to limit how much time you spend with her. It may also work long-term to respond less, though if she has use to you responding and being involved, it could take some time for her to adjust and find others who are not yet burned out.

Thanks for the replies, I sort of wasn't expecting that!

I know that NC is going to be the best way to handle her, but I am in no position to do that right now. But I am starting to practice not responding to it. I've read that it can be very awkward… it almost makes me feel rude because usually I roll over like a dog to her every question and command. But really whats the worst that can happen?! I get fired? Would that REALLY be the worst thing to happen???

I think your right, she isn't selfish, in fact she could be seen as a very giving person. But there is always a hidden agenda. When she decided to throw in a car with my job, it also included me becoming a chauffeur to her daughter. Her only one child, that she has never had any time for her whole life.

The video that was posted on hpd with the girl at the birthday party springs into my mind ALL the time. She told me 5 times today that her husband will be working very hard this week and has a long commute into the city….repeatedly telling me…and in my mind I had a flash back to that video.

I know that if I stop responding, if I stop doing what she expects she will begin to make life difficult for me, but I think she underestimates me and how done I am with the whole thing.

On the one hand, I am really interested in researching this and trying to understand this, but on the other hand, doesn't that just mean that my world is still revolving around HER and HER problems?? I was hesitant to even write on here because as much as I want to 'not care' anymore I want to talk to people who deal with this and not my boyfriend, and friends who, as you said, really don't understand because they are not with her as much as I am. I was very torn… But I don't think I can just ignore this…and I think talking helps. I hope!

D xx

DaisyChain18 wrote:But really whats the worst that can happen?

Yes you could be fired. My guess is that she'd make your life a living hell (as revenge) instead. HPD's don't like rejection real or imagined. My advice is to consider all the possibilities before making a move. I mean it.

For example here's what I'm dealing with right now and I've been really really gentle/gradual with my withdrawal.

family-support/topic168465-50.html#p1752699

I'm not trying to scare you but you need to know what you're dealing with.

DaisyChain18 wrote:But there is always a hidden agenda.

There always is whether you know it or not.

DaisyChain18 wrote:But I don't think I can just ignore this…and I think talking helps. I hope!

None of this will get better by itself. IMO you need to make an escape plan. Making a clean/quick break would work although you say you can't do that. A slower/gradual withdrawal may work too if your intention is to leave.

If you plan to stay there's no magic pill/bullet. You'll either go crazy or learn to emotionally withdraw.

My intention is to leave. There really is no other option anymore.

I've tried to start withdrawing and I actually feel better already.

Every year since I have worked there she has given me a lavish christmas and birthday gift. I've always felt a little awkward about this as she is just my boss. But I also have never had a pay rise or a bonus so I sort of see it like that. I have been in therapy because of my boss and the way she treats me and I had been warned to expect a harsh reaction when I start to 'pull away'. Well this month I promised myself I would tell her that I would be buying myself a vehicle and that the vehicle she had provided (which will be handed down to her daughter) had been very nice but I wanted to become more independent. I pay my own car insurance so I let her know that I would no longer be paying her any insurance when I had my new vehicle. This woman has a lot of money. She tried every angle she could to make me feel bad, to make me think I should still be giving her car insurance etc. When that did not work. She went exactly how the therapist said she would. Not even a birthday card. Friends and family were shocked. However I actually felt relieved. Every time I get a present, its like a nail in my coffin. Something to make me feel guilty for. But this time I just felt like…finally a boundary that she didn't cross!

Since I've started to 'care less', she barely speaks to me. She pretends to be very very busy on her computer. She actually is at the point where she just totally ignores me if i speak to her….and i'll end up having to walk out of the room. She's trying to punish me. She wants me to 'suck up' to her and tell her 'i miss her' etc…but its not happening. She's testing me but its not working. She is a very strange individual. Her constant singing and baby voices are getting worse and worse. I don't know if HPD gets stronger but she seems worse than she used to be.

I know HPD people care about how they look etc? But she is actually the opposite, she's a slob. Her hair is almost always greasy, her teeth are yellow from her constant smoking, She doesn't wear make up, i don't think she's ever used deodorant. Her clothes are always expensive. However she has a huge thing about things that she OWNS. More than what she looks like. For example she has to drive a mercedes sports car. She talks about her 'business' as one of the highest fanciest in the country…. it is not. She cares about how her pets look. How her gardens look. She is very picky over small things that nobody would notice.
When my parents came to visit she had a major freak out, she wanted me to clean out some rooms at her business and said 'My gosh your parents are coming i don't want them to see it like this' I tried to point out that my parents wouldn't actually notice the dust in the rooms, (it wasn't a big deal) and that they wouldn't care. To which she answered, 'WELL I CARE!' And i then tried to point out, they were here to see me…not her business… to which she had no answer to and walked out.

D xx

DaisyChain18 wrote:I've tried to start withdrawing and I actually feel better already.

Hopefully your therapist has told you this already but you'll have setbacks (bad days/weeks etc). That's normal so don't get discouraged. If the long-term trend is in the right direction it's all good

DaisyChain18 wrote: have been in therapy because of my boss and the way she treats me and I had been warned to expect a harsh reaction when I start to 'pull away'.

Sounds like your therapist knows about Cluster B people. That's a good thing since many don't.

DaisyChain18 wrote:Not even a birthday card.

The woman I know never said "happy birthday" to me either. I returned the favor on her birthday about a week later I bet she was expecting a text/call. Too bad so sad. I did think of mailing her a 8th birthday card but figured she'd know who sent it.

DaisyChain18 wrote:She actually is at the point where she just totally ignores me if i speak to her….

All standard.

DaisyChain18 wrote:Her constant singing and baby voices are getting worse and worse.

She could be regressing (to a child) under pressure. I've witnessed it in the woman I know.

You might also observe symptoms of conversion or somatic issues. The woman I know "breaks out" when under stress.

DaisyChain18 wrote:I know HPD people care about how they look etc?

It is not unusual for them to neglect themselves when depressed/under stress. Again I've personally observed this.

Along with somatic symptoms it's a good way to detect that something isn't going right (from their perspective) in their life.

When under stress/depressed HPD's can abuse alcohol/drugs. The woman I know claims not to drink alcohol but I'm pretty sure I've heard her drunk (on the phone) and I've heard 3rd party reports that she's been seen drunk. She's admitted to me that she sometimes smokes pot (to reduce pain).

I'd talk to your therapist about this stuff. Turning your boss into a subject of study (something I did) may help you cope.

I actually stopped seeing my therapist this summer. I was hit with a bit of depression last winter. Once I had been in therapy for a while I started to realize I was very unhappy in my job and felt trapped. We would talk about my boss and how she treated me. I started to feel a lot better and my therapist felt like I didn't need anymore help. TBH I was totally sick of spending an hour of my time just talking about my boss (and paying for it) When it was very obvious she was never going to change, and it was me that needed to change. Which is slowly happening.

My therapist really helped me. I went into her office like a timid mouse thinking there was something wrong with me. As we started talking about my life and how it is, she was surprised at my relationship with my boss and how much of my life was about her. I tried to defend her at first, I tried to say that she was a good person. But the therapist challenged me on this and it opened up my eyes to how i've been treated for so long.

I know that she's under stress right now, but she has always been that way. Rude. Speaking more openly about this on here has already made me open my eyes and realize how 'sick' she is. EG. Her husband sent me an interesting article last night and i saw him today, we were sat in her kitchen (she hadn't spoken to me at all as i had my lunch) i commented that it was a great article and we were just about to discuss it when she swings around in her chair (she always speaks louder than everybody else) and exclaims "OH SHOW HER THE VIDEO ABOUT THE BEARS!' Totally interrupting us, and her husband who fuels her HPD abandons our conversation and goes off to get his iPad to show me the video. She wins. She's suddenly involved in the conversation, and any conversation that was going to be without her involvement is cancelled.

Her birthday is in November, I couldn't imagine not giving her at least a card. Would I give my previous bosses a birthday card? I might… but maybe not. This is a tricky one, I have a couple of months to decide. If I don't give her one then does that make me just as immature? Last year for her birthday her daughter didn't even say happy birthday to her, and she cried to me about it she was heartbroken. I believe the daughter will inherit HPD too. She shows very strong signs of it.

D xx