Non-Narcissistic Support thread.....

You don't say how long you've been married.

My stbx changed towards me the day we returned from honeymoon. I still cannot believe it was the same person I'd been living with for a year. I found out though that he'd been preparing his position for months telling my friends and family that I was an alcoholic and drug user and he was 'so worried about me'.

When I stood up for myself and asked for a divorce/annulment he very quickly escalated to violence. I don't know if he has NPD, or if he had a master plan. It took me months to get him out of the house and his revenge was pretty extreme, hence my user name...

I suggest you start a new thread, as you'll get more replies in the main body of this forum.

Good luck!

I am brand new here and very grateful for this thread, though I have been suffering at the hands of an NPD daughter for almost 20 years. When she was younger, we thoroughly believed her to be a pathological liar, but I now recognize that as just one of the many symptoms she exhibits on a regular basis. I don't remember exactly how I stumbled across NPD 2 days ago, but reading the symptoms and behavior caused my jaw to drop, and I had an epiphany. My wife, son, and I are all reading everything we can about the disease to try and understand what our daughter/sister and we have been going through all these years. A great weight has been lifted by knowing that she does have a demonstrable condition, and our expectations for reasonable behavior from her will just not happen because she does not have the capability to act that way. It is also a relief to know we're not crazy, at least in the sense that we feel crazy when trying to deal with her(N). Thanks for being here.

Great stuff, lengthy but well worth the effort; quoted from
<http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2009/07/07/hookinguprealities/are-you-dating-a-narcissist/>

If you are so an N / NPD no offense intended; I sincerely wish you a productive and lasting recovery (and if you really are in recovery, you won’t despise me for such sentiments, lol).

Although most narcissists / NPD’s are male, there are definitely some female ones out there; their incidence and prevalence possibly increasing - an unintended consequence of recent accomplishments in gender equality?. So if you’re a guy and you suspect your girl is a narc, just substitute “her” for “him” below, and see if it rings true…

{beginning of quote}

Are You Dating a Narcissist?
Posted by Susan Walsh on July 7, 2009 in Hooking Up Realities, Relationship Strategies
Narcissus in Greek mythology is a hero, renowned for his beauty. He is exceptionally cruel, in that he disdains those who love him. As divine punishment he falls in love with a reflection in a pool, not realizing it is his own, and perishes there, not being able to leave the beauty of his own reflection.
In The Narcissism Epidemic: Living in the Age of Entitlement by Jean Twenge and Keith Campbell, narcissism is defined as a very positive and inflated view of the self. Twenge and Campbell make the argument that narcissism is rampant, causing depression and loneliness as it spreads throughout our culture. I’ll reserve judgment on the question of the pervasiveness of narcissism – I know many young people, and very few meet the definition, in my view.
What I found most interesting about the book was the discussion around narcissism and dating. Most of the people you get involved with will fall far short of this full-blown personality disorder, but there are definitely people out there who have unjustifiably high self-esteem, and they are terrible relationship risks.

What is a narcissist?
• Approximately 1% of the population is narcissistic.
• 75% of narcissists are men.
• Narcissism is a psychological condition characterized by self-preoccupation, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem.
• A narcissist sees his life as a movie or dramatic story in which he has the starring role. He creates a character, and assimilates the emotions of that character.
• Narcissists appear to have emotions, feelings, empathy; they cry, laugh, feel your pain, etc, but none of this is real. They don’t feel it. It’s not linked to anything internal. They’re crying at the funeral, for sure, but on the inside they’re wondering why it doesn’t hurt as much as they think it should.
• They are extremely vain.
• They are often very outgoing, with a “larger than life” personality. They are great fun in social situations, which makes them popular.
• Hurting a narcissist does not cause him to feel sadness. You can only make a narcissist feel rage.
Hooking up is perfect for narcissists:
• Since hooking up is about what you want, rather than what the other person wants, it’s the perfect sexual experience for a narcissist.
• Hookups move the focus of sexual relationships away from the whole person by emphasizing physical attractiveness.
• Because physical intimacy precedes emotional involvement, it’s difficult to scope out the emotional character of a guy before hooking up.
• Narcissists worry about “settling,” and are always on the lookout for something better. Hooking up is the perfect framework for that because no one finds it particularly unusual or troubling if a guy doesn’t want a relationship, but prefers to always be hooking up with someone new.

What are narcissists like in relationships?
• They are exciting, excelling at the fun and novel stage of a new relationship.
• They enjoy the passion of new love, but do not develop feelings of caring as the relationship progresses.
• They are all about feeding the ego; always their own, but sometimes yours too.
• They seek partners who make them look and feel powerful, special, admired, attractive, and important.
• They are indifferent to the core qualities of healthy relationships: real love, caring, commitment and loyalty.
• Narcissists exhibit the same qualities at work and among friends, but their true character is more obvious in romantic relationships, because there are fewer rules for how to behave, and because someone who has fallen for a narcissist will often put up with a great deal that others would not tolerate.
• Narcissists don’t feel guilt, based on an objective right and wrong. They feel shame, based on exposure. When they get caught, their answer is always the same: “Wait, that’s not really who I am…”
• Narcissists regard relationships as interchangeable. If you do not fuel the needed status and self-esteem, he will quickly find another relationship that is more rewarding.
• Narcissists play games:
1. They are dishonest.
2. They give mixed signals, running hot and cold.
3. They play people against one another.
4. They avoid real commitment.

Recently I wrote about The Principle of Least Interest. This is one of the narcissist’s favorite games. They continuously seek to demonstrate that they care less than the other party, thereby claiming the upper hand.
• Narcissists are unable to receive criticism of any kind, often reacting with denial and abuse, sometimes even rage. Narcissists become hostile and defensive very quickly when they feel cornered by criticism.
• Narcissists get angry and aggressive when they feel that their freedom is restricted, so pressuring them for a commitment often causes them to “flip out.”
• Narcissists can’t cope with rejection, and will avoid allowing someone else to end the relationship at all costs. Often those dating a narcissist will feel better when he refuses to let go, interpreting his desperation to stay in the relationship as a sign of real “deep down” caring. In fact, it’s about pride and ownership. Narcissists can’t tolerate someone else calling the shots, robbing them of their power.

Why do women date narcissists?
Women date narcissists for the same reasons they date jerks, frequently forcing nice guys into last place. We want it all. We want the challenge and the magic passion with a guy who has confidence, charisma and a great sense of fun. But we also want deep caring, with intimacy and commitment. Narcissists deliver big on the magic, and come up empty on the caring. They save the bad stuff for later. By the time you realize that, you’re often in pretty deep, addicted to that bad, bad boy.
Dating a narcissist is dangerous, potentially destroying your ability to have a normal relationship in future:
• People who have been burned by narcissists are understandably wary and find it difficult to trust others.
• They also lose trust in themselves, feeling stupid for not having realized his true character.
• Victims of narcissists spend a lot of time wondering how they got they way, and rehashing nearly all of their interactions to identify the warning signs they missed the first time around.

What is the best way to avoid a narcissist?
• Make an effort to identify them based on their history. Narcissists leave a trail of heartbreak, deception and unmet expectations.
• Don’t let a suspected narcissist talk his way in. They will often try to cover their insensitive and deceitful behavior by claiming that there was a miscommunication or misunderstanding. It is always the other person’s fault.
• Watch for clues. If a guy tells you, “I am a selfish person,” believe him. He’s not being self-deprecating, he’s understating what a narcissist he really is.
• Put up boundaries. Be friendly, but not friends. Do not put yourself in any situation where you need to trust them.
• Reject the temptation to become “the cure.” You cannot identify and treat the unconscious deficits in self-esteem. Narcissists rarely change, especially in relationships.
• Don’t initiate conflict. Any claims, no matter how true, will be met with defensiveness, hostility, perhaps even violence. In fact, you are actually feeding the narcissist’s needs by focusing on him. He is still the star of the show.

How can you get rid of a narcissist?
Don’t reward a narcissist by making drama. The only way to make a narcissist understand personal rejection is to convince him that he doesn’t exist in your life. Ignoring him or humiliating him by failing to give him the starring role, or any role, is the only way to cause real injury to a narcissist. It also happens to be the best way for you to move on.
The bottom line is this: It’s all about them.
A narcissist values a relationship only if he believes it makes him look and feel superior. Have you been involved with someone who has narcissistic tendencies? How did you get out?
Sources:
Twenge, Jean M., PhD and Campbell, W. Keith, PhD, The Narcissism Epidemic: Living in the Age of Entitlement, New York, Free Press, 2009.
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2008/10/ ... .html#more
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2007/01/ ... issis.html
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/narcissist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_(mythology)

Hi,
I am new here also....I live with my boyfriend of five years who I believe to have NPD. I only just recently discovered all of this.....I had thought maybe he was bipolar or something, I knew something was wrong, but once I started reading about NPD I found words printed that were things I had said....word for word, and exact stories of things that happened right here in this home! I was amazed! This is him!
Anyway.....I have nothing against people who have a personality disorder, in fact I feel really bad for everything they are going through. I know with narcisssist, from what I've read that it's likely they had some traumatic experience in early childhood......I wonder if that's the case for the people here who have this disorder. With my boyfriend, his parents split when he was young, around 4, and two kids went with mom and two went with dad. That dad has a family history of mental illness and bipolar, and also ended his own life. Unlike what someone mentioned here earlier, I try SO hard to understand. I bang my head against a wall over and over. My narcissist treated me pretty good for long lengths of time.....so good that I thought that we had something good and that he was my friend and my partner......someone I could trust, and someone who loved me. Over time though, the anger outbursts got pretty bad, to the point where I ended up having to call the cops. He would never touch me, or hurt me physically, no, he's too smart for that because he doesn't want to end up being taken away by the cops, but he's very verbally abusive and does get violent, throwing things, threatening. It seems as if I've gone from having this wonderful man that I had a good relationship with, to not having anything and what we had was probably not even real, and even if it was, it's something he's ok with just tossing away like a piece of garbage. Right now I'm still trying to adjust to the shock of all I have learned. I think I am going to leave, but it's so hard..... I love this person with all my heart, but everything I read is telling me that he will never change and how can I live my life this way? I've been to counseling twice so far and mostly told the counselor everything about him, and I'm trying to get him to go see her now....he's already cancelled one appt. and the next one is scheduled for tomorrow. I don't have much hope, but I still feel the need to try to help him and do everything I can....even if it's hopeless. I guess I just need to do these things in order to feel ok with leaving....that I tried and did everything that I could. If I had one wish in the whole world, it would be to see him live a good and normal life and be able to love and trust and let someone love him. I am about as patient a person as they come......no one is going to stay with this man in the state he is in....well, they may get roped in and trapped, but it will always be a fight and an unhappy life. Having to leave him behind to live this kind of life, for me it's like watching him die. I am still here now......I am worried about the day getting here that I leave, worried about how he will be, what he will do, will he get angry, will I have to call the cops, and things get ugly. I already know that he'll try to get me to come back, but I'm not one who has ever gone back to a relationship gone bad. Once it's done, it's done....I don't play that game. This is the hardest thing that I've ever had to deal with in my life and I am in my 40's. I actually wanted to marry this man at one point! but he has no interest in that because he only has interest in things that will benefit him and apparently he thinks marriage won't. The whole marriage thing though helped to open my eyes about his problem so I'm kinda glad that it came up. I need someone who can love me and trust me and want to commit to me....someone I feel special to, someone who can really know me, and not accuse me of things done to him in the past......that's not me. Right now my whole world is just thrown right up into the air and I don't know where it's gonna fall. This is a horrible, horrible thing to ever have to live through and deal with. At least for the narcissist, they've lived their life this way for so long and it feels more normal to them.....for those of us who end up with them and have to suddenly realize what the problem is, it's like crashing into a brick wall and the shock of all of it is very overwhelming. How naive am I, I never even knew people like this existed!

My 1.5 cents on this. I like this thread. Those of us who find ourselves loving or in love with N's are in need of healing too. And it's great to interact with N's who have made their own self-discoveries. Please continue.

I think it would be good if there were three sticky non-narcisstic support threads: for relationships, for work and for families, because they have their own dynamics.

I always feel weird about interrupting "non" threads, but....

orion8591 wrote:Although most narcissists / NPD’s are male

Actually, more recent studies have found this to be more even with only a slight . "They" are generally blaming doctor bias, shoving men to the ASPD/NPD side, women to the BPD/HPD side....because women are supposedly so much more "emotional". @_@

It's also worth noting that they've found female NPDs to present in basically the same way as males, generally speaking.

Don’t reward a narcissist by making drama. The only way to make a narcissist understand personal rejection is to convince him that he doesn’t exist in your life. Ignoring him or humiliating him by failing to give him the starring role, or any role, is the only way to cause real injury to a narcissist. It also happens to be the best way for you to move on.

Also, I found this vaguely insulting in its wording. Seems to be implying that you SHOULD be aiming to humiliate your ex.

*tiptoes away*

Most narcs are men.

I'm not sure this is true. I think male narcs are easier to spot, perhaps they show their personality's in a more out going or aggressive way. And they are more likely to be out there working. Mothers more likely to be at home unsupervised their actions unnoticed.
Female narcs can use children as easily available and (conveniently helpless) narc supply. They can hide behind ' mommie dearests love' I mean who would think that perfect mommie was a cruel selfish tyrant behind closed doors?

The trouble is even if a child could articulate the trouble with mommie, no one would believe them. Most likely THEY would get labeled as ungrateful and selfish brats. So narc mommie carries on unchallenged.

Earlier I started watching one of these talk shows can't remember the name. It had children and their mothers at loggerheads. The children were getting the blame, (respect your mother don't talk to her like that don't hit her blah,blah,blah) at one stage a 13 year old fell on the floor and started crying.
The 'mothers' were 'crying' & sobbing' well, trying too. But they were so FALSE none of them actually manage to squeeze a tear out. Full blown narcs the lot of um.

Most behavior is copied, the kids scream, hit , swear because that all they've ever seen mommie & daddie do. They are merely reflecting their home life. And then these poor troubled kids, instead of getting help & support just get more shouting and abuse by some up their own a##e 'talk show host'.

These shows should not be allowed its child abuse. I couldn't watch all of it, made me so angry it was too upsetting.

Don’t reward a narcissist by making drama. The only way to make a narcissist understand personal rejection is to convince him that he doesn’t exist in your life. Ignoring him or humiliating him by failing to give him the starring role, or any role, is the only way to cause real injury to a narcissist. It also happens to be the best way for you to move on.

Also, I found this vaguely insulting in its wording. Seems to be implying that you SHOULD be aiming to humiliate your ex.

*tiptoes away*

[/quote]

I disagree, though I can understand how this might be taken as offensive. Given some of the attributes of a Narc: lack of empathy, no emotional bank, the need for control, and pathological lying. There are few defenses for the Non, especially if a long term relationship is involved, and as a result, other dynamics such as mutual friends and both individuals participation in a community, children etc. "Shamming" a narc, either aggressively or passively is about one of the few options left to a non. "Reasoning" is just impossible. (this may be different if the Narc is pursing treatment, I would not know in that case)
Ultimately though, this strategy is often short lived, it just buys time allowing the non to prepare to move on and possibly escape with some community, friends and maybe some self esteem intact. In hind sight, I believe this is an effective way to deal with the intense and often horrible splitting behavior that will occur. The very idea that the non has the capability to humiliate a Narc can help to tone down some of the outrageous splitting behavior by appealing to one of the stronger emotions a Narc possess: fear. Unfortunately, instilling fear is not an ideal endeavor, but it is one of the best strategies when severing the relationship, unfortunately, because there is little else to appeal to.

It should not be done vindictively though (for the sake of the non), but that's easier said than done.

i am a mom. and my sons father is a narcissist. i begin to read it to defend myself. cos of course im gonna have to deal with this guy for the rest of my life...but i think i am one....too.
as a child i was molested at 5 by my oldest brother and abused growing up by my dad
i do have some characteristics of this disorder if i think about it
i only make friends with people who i think are somebody
and people who arent good enough i dont talk to anymore and lose there friendship.
there are many more
but my question is cause all this happened to me as a child can i end up a narcissist or am i one