Non-Narcissistic Support thread.....

Truth too late wrote:
If he weren't in therapy (didn't admit he has a problem), I can think of a couple ways to plant seeds which an N will eventually fall back on when things get bad enough. (Perhaps even a way to make it bad enough at that moment.).

If you two were speaking, there might be a way to ask him if he'd like to know what you think he should mention to his therapist. .

This is where I am at. My x has had his first therapy. He just knows he's broken and he's seen behind his mask. His words. So truthtoolate, What do you suggest as planting seeds and subtle ways to mention things?

Cheers

Mamba wrote:This message board helped me to see that as Nons, we must focus on our responsibility for being needy and easily manipulated. In my relationship with a Narc, I believe I was extremely codependent, I had my own issues. I was just like so many of you, feeling sad, dejected, angry and broken after the discard.
I recognize now that I needed to take responsibilities for myself, my life, my feelings. I realize now I had issues that made me needy and codependent, and I sought counseling. I ask you, look in the mirror... what are your issues? You know there were red flags and warning signs but you chose to believe the words which clearly conflicted with their actions from time to time. You stayed because you wanted to, and *you* chose to hang on when all signs pointed the other way.
As I read the posts of Narcs, I see that they suffer in their own way, and they have found a way to escape pain and find some sort of solace from it, and through their actions, they often leave casualties in their wake. So be it, I'm not going to be one of those casualties ever again.
It took me a long while to realize this. I was deep into the victim mentality and suffered greatly. I've come to see that it was just a way to avoid looking at myself and what I needed to change.

I asked myself over and over and over all day today- "Why am I so weak when it comes to denying one of the two family members who I believe are narcissists, their wish for me to behave less than truthful in certain matters?" Layers of casualties in this case are decades old and growing. I wish I could say that I am walking away from all of what I am currently being faced with (and more importantly, who), but I can't. What is going to happen in the future for me is- I intend to make some major changes so that I can regain, and maintain my sanity. Enough is enough.

I am looking at "me" in the mirror, and I am going to change my ways concerning this matter a.s.a.p.

I'm sure this has been posted before but I am new to this!

But I came across You Tube channel Understanding Narcissists and it's certainly touched a nerve and opened my eyes. Wanted to share it with others struggling with a pwNPD. I've only just started going through them but I found the video on enablers gave me a light bulb moment.

felling a bit yet at the same time.

I'm new here and hope I'm posting this in the right place. I've been married for 25 years to a man who at the very least has narcissistic tendencies. He's controlling, lacks empathy, has to be the center of attention, is charming, funny, very successful, etc. I've been reading posts, and trying to remember myself 25 years ago before I got married. I don't think of myself as weak or codependent. In every other aspect of my life and in every other relationship I have I am very independent and self confident. I know that my husband has very deliberately trained me to be dependent of him over the years. He has intimidated and bullied me into burying my head in the sand. I have learned not to question him, not to concern myself with our finances, or his work or his whereabouts. I have learned to let him play golf whenever he wants; to not ever visit his work; to not expect him to ever share any details of his day with me and to never expect him to ask about mine; to never expect to be included in any big decisions. And so, I have also trained myself over the years to focus on the good parts of my life-like my kids and my own career-and to push all of my suspicions and worries out of my mind.
But, around a year ago I realized that something was probably going on with his young single assistant at work. He was deleting her texts and acting weird with his phone, and had become especially distant and irritable. So I DARED to question him, ever so nicely, and ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE. The past year has been horrible. And through digging, I have discovered so many lies and things hidden from me. And he has been non remorseful and mean. I have offered up divorce to him many times, but he seems intent on staying married. He seems to think he can bully me back into submission, and goes on and on about how horrible it is for him to have been accused of cheating--"the most horrible thing a person can be accused of. And not who I am". However, when i google "signs of a cheating husband", every single one of them applies. And I would be willing to forgive--if for no other reason, to not ruin my kids' teenage years. But he's so mean and self-absorbed. He seems totally unable to see my side. I've always known he is difficult and self-centered, but this past year has been very disturbing, and I'm having a hard time going back to my old "bury my head in the sand" ways. I love him, but I hate the self-centered "it's my world and you just live in it" attitude. I've always hated it and have quietly let resentment build and build over the years.
I guess my question is, is there any hope at all? We haven't been to counseling. Is this a "learn to like it or leave it" situation?

Hi Michele. Thank you for sharing your story. I was in two relationships with narcissists. One right after the other. The second guy seemed to be a relief, a blessing, and seemed so different than the first and ended up being much worse. They both told me they loved me and wanted a future with me, yet they both cheated on me. The 2nd one broke my heart when he told me that he slept with his best friend and caught an std and that I needed to get tested. I felt so damaged and lost. I felt rage, shame, regret, sadness, jealousy, confusion, loss, etc all at once and was too much for me to bare.

I often wish that I could have held myself and told myself that I was strong and deserved much better.

If you can tell your younger self that now, you would, but you can tell yourself that now. You deserve to be truly loved Michele, and you definitely don't need to be with him especially if he matches the signs. Hire a private investigator if you need to. You need to protect your health, because men don't experience symptoms of many stds. For that reason alone, you can't accept cheating. I have also attracted a lot of men that are partnered or married. Men that have a perfect image and their spouses probably don't expect it.

I know that you want to do what's best for your kids. Can you honestly wait until they are 18 to leave him? Would you like to set an example for your kids about what love and healthy relationships really are? I apologize if my questions sound too blunt or personal.

I would look in the mirror right now and say 'I love you. I am worth it. I deserve to be truly loved. I am perfect, whole, and complete.' It's a great way to gather strength.

Take care of yourself. Blessings.

Since this is a support thread I want to say I just found this place researching and recent relationship I ended or he ended (silent treatment) by a narcissist I just realized was a narcissist by research after the silent treatment. Had I known ahead of time I wouldn't have went off on him the way I did. So now all my apologies have went unanswered and I am now in NC and have blocked him on social media though I don't know if he knows it no contact or if he will ever come back... Why do I want him back? Cause my father was a narc and it wasn't until I was researching these couple of days that I was able to figure it out... Hence I am the daughter of a narc and it explains my relationship choices and why I'm so intrigued by them. I miss him... But I will not fall to his feet this time like I've done before. It hurts that I know he had others and so I am of nothing now. But lesson learned. It's long distance and it has only been 5 months. Only 3 days NC and I want so badly to reach out again. But I won't.

Confusedmichele wrote:I'm new here and hope I'm posting this in the right place. I've been married for 25 years to a man who at the very least has narcissistic tendencies. He's controlling, lacks empathy, has to be the center of attention, is charming, funny, very successful, etc. I've been reading posts, and trying to remember myself 25 years ago before I got married. I don't think of myself as weak or codependent. In every other aspect of my life and in every other relationship I have I am very independent and self confident. I know that my husband has very deliberately trained me to be dependent of him over the years. He has intimidated and bullied me into burying my head in the sand. I have learned not to question him, not to concern myself with our finances, or his work or his whereabouts. I have learned to let him play golf whenever he wants; to not ever visit his work; to not expect him to ever share any details of his day with me and to never expect him to ask about mine; to never expect to be included in any big decisions. And so, I have also trained myself over the years to focus on the good parts of my life-like my kids and my own career-and to push all of my suspicions and worries out of my mind.
But, around a year ago I realized that something was probably going on with his young single assistant at work. He was deleting her texts and acting weird with his phone, and had become especially distant and irritable. So I DARED to question him, ever so nicely, and ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE. The past year has been horrible. And through digging, I have discovered so many lies and things hidden from me. And he has been non remorseful and mean. I have offered up divorce to him many times, but he seems intent on staying married. He seems to think he can bully me back into submission, and goes on and on about how horrible it is for him to have been accused of cheating--"the most horrible thing a person can be accused of. And not who I am". However, when i google "signs of a cheating husband", every single one of them applies. And I would be willing to forgive--if for no other reason, to not ruin my kids' teenage years. But he's so mean and self-absorbed. He seems totally unable to see my side. I've always known he is difficult and self-centered, but this past year has been very disturbing, and I'm having a hard time going back to my old "bury my head in the sand" ways. I love him, but I hate the self-centered "it's my world and you just live in it" attitude. I've always hated it and have quietly let resentment build and build over the years.
I guess my question is, is there any hope at all? We haven't been to counseling. Is this a "learn to like it or leave it" situation?

Hi Michele,

I don't think I have a good answer for your question - I am an in the same boat, and have recently come to the conclusion, that I don't think there is hope. I too have not done counseling and plan on it just for my own peace of mind, but that ever so slight flicker of hope I had, is now barely there.

I wanted to offer you support, as I know how you must be feeling. I too feel the same heartache. have just recently started looking at forums to help me deal with my feelings better, and every so often I read one and think "OMG, this is like I had written the story of my life"!

Which is how I felt about what you wrote. I have been married to my husband for 7 years (together 10). We have two precious pre-school aged boys who are my whole world. Since getting married to my husband, he has been treating me like dirt, and slowly has been getting worse and worse, to the point of completely intolerable...I am basically beyond my breaking point. He has been emotionally, verbally, physically and financially abusive. He has isolated me and controlled me. It is as you said about your husband - I am living in his world. I am supposed to cater completely to his needs and wants in life, and never ask for anything, I am supposed to pamper him 24/7 and cook, clean, care for our kids and him and never ask him for a hand with ANYTHING (he lives like a frat boy / other preschooler), I am never supposed to feel tired or sick (as he always feels sicker or more tired....and even if he doesn't too bad, I still need to act strong and carry on), I am never supposed to question him, challenge him, or deny him of whatever he decides/wants/needs....I literally feel like a slave.

On top his family (also narcissists) help him in bullying me, isolating me, and generally making me feel miserable every day. I also think they are starting to lay down the framework for alienating me from my kids, and setting the path for them to join in the exclusive 'cult'.

But back to my husband - the ONE thing I never thought he would do though, is cheat. I am still not sure, but I really have my suspicions. Since this summer, I accidentally saw a search on our computer for strip clubs I have been looking at my husband through suspicious eyes. When I asked him about it, he came up with some lame lie, which made me realize how stupid he really thinks I am. Since then, I have seem many searches for porn, random web searches of girls he knows and probably finds attractive (ie. his hairdresser, female coworkers, etc.). and just today --- a search on hotels near his work (WTF?). As I am beyond busy caring for our two kids and pouring any free minute I have completing a post-grad, he takes full advantage of that and has grown accustomed to freedom to come and go as he pleases. Even though he works longer hours, I know my husband likes his free time/alone time, and I really don't know if I can trust him when he says that he is running late because of work. Many times he has lied to me or just didn't bother telling me that he was going out to a bar with his brother (doesn't ever matter what I have on the go - scrambling to find a second to do school work, or barely functioning because I am sick with the flu, etc. --- these are never factors that would impact him rushing home from work). He has been especially cold and distant with me over the last couple of months, and in fact, things are super tense, he ready to rage over every little thing (he does get physically abusive, so I try to keep a low profile most times). He does not seem attracted to me, and even seems disgusted with me most times. I believe he is in the discard phase...I am feeling quite certain of it actually. Since I have been especially preoccupied with school lately and have been keeping a lower profile, so as not to have big blow ups with him, it has made more bored with me, and so I cannot win. He now gets annoyed and aggravated with me - he basically feels like I am not at his level. I think he feels the grass is greener and that he could have done better than me (the itch for new supply?)...

So recently for me, the icing on the cake is the thought that the guy I believed would at least never cheat, may be cheating. I know his mind is there...whether or not he actually has, I really don't know. And he is not the type to EVER admit it. Today he has had no remorse for any pain he has ever caused me, and he fully blames me for everything he has done.

I can't believe this is my life! I am here still solely because of my children (I don't want to deprive them of having a family)...I am so sad. I guess a part of me just doesn't want to divorce for other reasons also (never pictured divorcing, I am too loyal/forgiving, afraid of starting over and living life alone with my two little boys)...

...but if I find out for sure he has cheated, that tiny sliver of hope will be completely gone for me. I already feel like I have too little respect for myself. I don't want my children growing up thinking it is ok to treat women that way. I guess I need to think about that even now.

Good luck and God bless you. I hope your situation gets better soon.

So I know this isn't the biggest issue in terms of N behavior and we've all dealt with worse, but it is bothering me.

I'm re-learning to drive with an N father. He's incredibly difficult to be around. Not just because of the terrible energy he gives off, but he does nothing for my driving anxiety. I've tried explaining why I get nervous when I drive (fear of hurting others and losing control of the vehicle), and he dismisses me every time. Not anything new, but he's very impatient, pushes me to do stuff I'm uncomfortable with, yells at me, starts fights with me over perceived ego threats, criticizes literally everything I do every few seconds, throws fits then broods afterwards so I have to focus on him, and he treats me as if I don't know what I'm doing. I've been driving for a while, and I did have my license in the past as well. So I know what to do, but he will not stop telling me to do every single small thing, like slowing down for a stop light. Then when I calmly tell him I can see what I need to do and that he's being condescending, he yells at me that I'm a a know-it-all and refuses to help me on things I actually need help with after that, because "if I know everything then I don't need his help." He also has outbursts and will randomly yell if he thinks I'm doing something wrong when everything's actually fine (just out of his control), which raises my anxiety tenfold. I also have to go on his schedule despite him being free all day - he hates not having control so that's the one thing he gets to control about my driving, but once I was ill at the time and was lectured for a half hour and yelled at for "making excuses" and being terrible for asking people to work around me. Growing up I was always yelled at for being a smartass, stupid and making excuses and mistakes and honestly, my low self-esteem ties into my driving. He still yells at me for the same stuff to this day but it bothers me less when I'm not driving. I am getting better each time I drive and slowly becoming confident with my skills, but it's really hard to block him out. Is there any way to reach him or meet in the middle? I feel like I've tried just about everything. I've calmly talked to him about it, confronted him in and out of the car, explained why I'm anxious behind the wheel etc. but it seems hopeless at this point. Also, I learned to drive years ago with a friend and it was fantastic! No anxiety, she was calm and helpful and let me do my thing. She only criticized me when necessary and I drove really well.

This is more of a rant, but I would appreciate any advice on dealing with this or maybe you guys have any experiences similar to this? Anything would be very appreciated

zentofu,

Ever considered enrolling in a driving course? In fact, some car insurance companies offer discounts for taking such a course. Sure would be a saner way to re-learn driving again than with your dad. And he won't feel "imposed" upon, what with his free time.

i didn't want to open a new subject so can i ask that here.
also i quote this from another similar thread

njohns321 wrote:I know there was kind of a discussion about this earlier, but most of the articles I read online about NPD are from "victims" (I struggle with this term, because the true victim is the one who has it, you're just one of the people affected by it). I'd like to ask, how did you come to that conclusion that that was what your partner or parent had? Did they get a diagnosis? If so, how did that come about? Did they go in themselves, or did you initiate it? What was the outcome?
Kind of on a side note, many of these articles are also pretty demeaning, which I have a hard time with...I have a friend who's been diagnosed with ASPD, but I still have respect for her as a human being. I think Cluster B PDs are the most stigmatized mental illnesses, and people don't treat them as actual illnesses.

yeah he was the victim too !because he died in prison. without friends. but he never did anything to fix that or admit that he had a problem. before this ending he probably had a good time exploiting people though. and fun.

although i was shocked first time i read about npd because it was like reading about him.9 out of 10 characteristics he had.
it was very difficult to come to conclusion since all my life him and my mother who is completely depended on him and adores him like he is god.
she and him said that he was an amazing person and. nothing was his fault. when he obviously hurt others .but it was never his fault. always the others fault. his family stopped talking to him. he didn't care about having friends he would hurt them. or leave them .he exploit others to gain money.at first when you met him he was very charming though.and very intelligent. and despite the obvious lies that everyone knew ,somehow he managed to convince me and everyone that he was amazing and it was the others fault . other proof i had is that he died in jail. so if you are self destructive is very possible to have a disorder.
people from my school ,teachers or administrators actually said to me you father is lying but i believed him always. . family should stay together right? plus no matter what a family member does you should defend the family always. i also believed him because the lies where what i want to hear prettier than reality.
my mother still says he cared toomuch and he was a wonderful person. but i do not think he really cared about how i felt because he hurt me and keep doing the same $#%^ all over again . even gave me guilt that he did all these bad things only for me.
yet i am confused and doubt it after all of those years of brainwashing. that maybe he wasn't narc. my mom still thinks he is an amazing person who saved her. when he was the one who destroyed her life. but she doesn't see it. and we are disagreeing about this all the time. she says he cared too much. for her she was the love of her life the only one who mattered.
also i grew up to be a miserable human being who hates myself and has problem with relationships. but if you ask my mother everyone is like that and is normal.
pc he seemed to love our dog though because our dog adored him probably. he seemed to love me more than other people probably because i was like an extension of him

so what do you think he might be a narc?

edit: i forgot to write someone asked a long time ago about npd and dependency. i think he was dependent to my mother too. he never left her. she was the perfect victim. who praised him etc did whatever he wanted. i think most women would have left at some point,even after years, but not her. she was willing to leave everyone and prefer him .so he kind of seemed he needed her to me too. but you know he wouldn't praise her like she praised him. although if you read narc. supposed to change women often he didn't