Non-Borderline Support thread.....

Hey Dave,

From personal experience, and from what I've read here, that you are not yet feeling better after 6 weeks is not at all unusual. Writing about it here can help, but still there is nothing like talking with someone face to face. You mentioned the possibility of talking to a therapist, and odds are doing so will help to accelerate feeling better.

We are not able to diagnose anyone here, but for the sake of discussion let's assume she does have a borderline personality, and if that's true, odds are she is the type of person who is very emotional, and impulsive at times.

A common pattern people have talked about here -

Start with one person who feels their self-esteem is pretty good (not perfect, but reasonably strong), and who likely has some idealized notions of their own about love & romance. This type of person may be fairly reserved, maybe has unconsciously avoided relationships waiting for some ideal relationship.

Then that person meets another person who rapidly (aka impulsively) ideals them in a way nobody else has done before. The relations can seem seem ideal, perfect, just as imagined, and with that self-esteem soars to never before felt highs.

Then just as rapidly and impulsively... devalued. Self-esteem drops to a rock bottom low.

These type of relationships happen because on some level both people have self-esteem issues. The issues aren't exactly the same, but still, both have some issues they are not necessarily aware of.

Maybe that describes what happened to you, and if so, and once you get past the point of trying to make sense of her, this might end up being an experience from which you can learn more about yourself, and will emerge much stronger and happier (even though it doesn't feel that way now).

thanks for the response Xdude.

I have had self-esteem issues as a result of a belittling parent as a child, so that pretty much hits the mark.

The pattern you describe is pretty much spot on in relation to my experience with my ex. the idealization at the beginning was very intense. constant re-affirmations of what a great person I am, how good looking I am, how intelligent I am, what a great husband/father I would make etc. The constant idealisation made me see things In myself in a new light, a way I've never seen myself.

The devaluing stage caused these paper thin walls to come crashing down - how can someone who said such amazing things then disappear without a whimper?

do BPD's tend to pray on those with low self esteem? do you think this is more of a subconscious attraction rather than a conscious one?

as you say nobody can diagnose someone with BPD other than a professional in the field, there are obviously people out there who are just genuinely bad people who have no mental illness. I certainly feel the self mutilation amongst other things are a strong indicator.

Thanks

applepie wrote:FreshCutGrass with all due respect yes there may well be more people affected by people with BPD than people with BPD, but remember people affected can get over/through their experience go on to have other relationships etc while most of us with BPD have a life sentence.

appliepie

I have to say something about this.. I think it depends on how strong and emotionally stable the person is who enters into the relationship with the bpd person. I am not sure how many emotionally available and perfectly normal people they would date. If dysfunction is normal to someone they usually pick someone who is what they are used to...dysfunctional people. So it might not be as easy for them to recover as you would think. On the other hand it could be very traumatic when the shock of reality or of the situation sets in. I'm not sure, but I think it would vary depending on coping skills and their own issues etc.

I am not bpd, but I have a lot and I mean a lot of the same issues. My mom has bpd. Her mom had something ....or rather was something destructive...or just a really nasty person. My mom effected me. She decided my reality, who i was, etc etc. It could have been worse. she did the same things emotionally that were done to her. To say that I have the capability to deal with it is not accurate. I was not taught coping skills. I had no one. I don't even know who I am. I don't belong, fit in, feel like I exist to anyone. It never goes away, even with meds and counseling. The feeling stays and I don't underrstand boundaries or coping skills still. I think I am stuck with this for the rest of my life. It may not be the full disorder but it is bad enough that I cannot have normal relationships and it affects my life. You can deal a good amount of damage and not realize or mean to do it. It is not the person, it's the defences though.some don't recover or deal with it any better than a bpd person does. It sucks, but I believe it to be the truth. I am still affected by my mom. I will never have a mom...not in the way you think one should beI don't know if I can ever get over that. I love her and I wish she was ok and felt better. Some

davey984 wrote:...
The pattern you describe is pretty much spot on in relation to my experience with my ex. the idealization at the beginning was very intense. constant re-affirmations of what a great person I am, how good looking I am, how intelligent I am, what a great husband/father I would make etc. The constant idealisation made me see things In myself in a new light, a way I've never seen myself.

The devaluing stage caused these paper thin walls to come crashing down - how can someone who said such amazing things then disappear without a whimper?

For whatever it's worth there a lot of stories here (myself included) that can relate

davey984 wrote:...
do BPD's tend to pray on those with low self esteem? do you think this is more of a subconscious attraction rather than a conscious one?
...

Hi Dave,

I think the answer is that as much as we'd like to understand it in terms of A or B choices (a choice of conscious or unconscious), the reality is more likely in the middle, the murky grey area where people can be partially aware of what they are doing, but at the same time driven by emotions/thoughts that they are less aware of, or aware of having to some degree, but not why (if asking why even enters into the thought process).

Likewise when you/I/others entered into this type of relationship, we may be aware that we felt drawn to this other person for various reasons, but maybe not so aware of that there are/were aspects of our own personalities, in particular our fundamental sense of self-esteem, that was/is far more fragile than we realized.

All that written there do seem to be key differences in how most people think/feel about themselves and others, versus how someone who has a disordered personality perceives self/others. It's these differences that are hard to comprehend, and that goes both ways to some degree. If you believe she has a borderline personality, it might help you to understand the disorder up to a point. Beyond a certain point though you probably can't understand it, plus your understanding it won't make her better, and worst case it can become an obsession that leaves you feeling worse.

To a degree it can be helpful to understand a disordered significant other (assuming she does have a disordered personality), even if the only thing you are able to walk away with is understanding that if she does have a borderline personality, odds are nothing you'd have done would have changed the long term outcome. You might find some solace in accepting that she ran from the relationship due to her own issues.

Unfortunately that is a double edged sword and hard to accept. Hard to accept because the flip side of that coin is that it's because of her issues that she so quickly idealizes (and devalues), and that also means (and I've been there myself), that as good as it felt to be idealized, it's also our own want to be idealized that is a big part of why it all happened in the first place.

I really would talk to someone about what happened though, whether that is here on the forum or with a friend/family who has been something similar, or a therapist. Talking about it helps most of us. I know it's also hard to believe, but long term? You really may be surprised that at some point you'll feel better about yourself then you have before. It's a difficult lesson, but what happened to you is also a potential learning experience. A chance to really learn about yourself, and ultimately to face aspects of your own self-esteem that you might have not been aware of, and then really feel good about yourself in a whole new way.

Best wishes,

xdude

Such a great post dude, you are spot on. My breakup with me BPD gf caused me to see a therapist and we are doing a lot of wounded inner child work. I have been carrying around a lot of pain and it is such a great feeling to work through that pain/grief. I know I am becoming a more peaceful person and feeling so much better about myself, even my friends see a difference so as horrible as the breakup was there is a positive that is coming out of it!

xdude wrote:

davey984 wrote:...
The pattern you describe is pretty much spot on in relation to my experience with my ex. the idealization at the beginning was very intense. constant re-affirmations of what a great person I am, how good looking I am, how intelligent I am, what a great husband/father I would make etc. The constant idealisation made me see things In myself in a new light, a way I've never seen myself.

The devaluing stage caused these paper thin walls to come crashing down - how can someone who said such amazing things then disappear without a whimper?

For whatever it's worth there a lot of stories here (myself included) that can relate

davey984 wrote:...
do BPD's tend to pray on those with low self esteem? do you think this is more of a subconscious attraction rather than a conscious one?
...

Hi Dave,

I think the answer is that as much as we'd like to understand it in terms of A or B choices (a choice of conscious or unconscious), the reality is more likely in the middle, the murky grey area where people can be partially aware of what they are doing, but at the same time driven by emotions/thoughts that they are less aware of, or aware of having to some degree, but not why (if asking why even enters into the thought process).

Likewise when you/I/others entered into this type of relationship, we may be aware that we felt drawn to this other person for various reasons, but maybe not so aware of that there are/were aspects of our own personalities, in particular our fundamental sense of self-esteem, that was/is far more fragile than we realized.

All that written there do seem to be key differences in how most people think/feel about themselves and others, versus how someone who has a disordered personality perceives self/others. It's these differences that are hard to comprehend, and that goes both ways to some degree. If you believe she has a borderline personality, it might help you to understand the disorder up to a point. Beyond a certain point though you probably can't understand it, plus your understanding it won't make her better, and worst case it can become an obsession that leaves you feeling worse.

To a degree it can be helpful to understand a disordered significant other (assuming she does have a disordered personality), even if the only thing you are able to walk away with is understanding that if she does have a borderline personality, odds are nothing you'd have done would have changed the long term outcome. You might find some solace in accepting that she ran from the relationship due to her own issues.

Unfortunately that is a double edged sword and hard to accept. Hard to accept because the flip side of that coin is that it's because of her issues that she so quickly idealizes (and devalues), and that also means (and I've been there myself), that as good as it felt to be idealized, it's also our own want to be idealized that is a big part of why it all happened in the first place.

I really would talk to someone about what happened though, whether that is here on the forum or with a friend/family who has been something similar, or a therapist. Talking about it helps most of us. I know it's also hard to believe, but long term? You really may be surprised that at some point you'll feel better about yourself then you have before. It's a difficult lesson, but what happened to you is also a potential learning experience. A chance to really learn about yourself, and ultimately to face aspects of your own self-esteem that you might have not been aware of, and then really feel good about yourself in a whole new way.

Best wishes,

xdude

Xdude - I certainly feel following this relationship this is the longest and hardest I have ever looked at myself, if In the long run this does me good then its something to take from this God awful mess I got myself into.

with the assumption my ex is BPD, there does seem to be pattern reading other peoples experiences that they create absolute chaos and havoc then leave you slap bang in the middle of it whilst they move on. Its almost like attending a friends house party, trashing the place then leaving the mess and heading on home waiting for the next house party. Strange analogy I know.

I did read an good article on BPD stating that trying to make sense of what happened is a waste of time given that a BPD's emotions are so fractured, even if they tried to attempt to explain their behaviour the explanation would probably be nonsensical. I don't think they completely understand themselves.

despite my ex obviously seeing her new bf whilst still with me, I have nothing but sympathy for the guy (again with the assumption she is BPD) he has no idea what's in store for him.



Xdude - do you have a link or anything I can read regarding your experience with a BPD affected individual?

have you ever came across or read anything about BPD's appearing to have this look that appears empty? its almost like you look in their eyes and they're completely emotionless, empty, cold, absent etc. My ex had this look in her eyes at times that would completely freak me out, I've never seen it before in anyone.

Hi Dave,

There is a more general link here - family-support/topic120765.html, but I don't think we have anything specific to BPD.

As for the question about logic, personally I think cluster B personality types do act in a logical way, it's just not logical in the same way most people are use to thinking.

My personal opinion (not fact), but borderline types are logical in that they are acting/reacting to their emotions, including the what most of us react too, perceived threats/benefits to our sense of self-esteem. To a degree we all do the same, but it is about matter of degree. Most people also weigh (to varying degrees) the long term consequences of acting on their emotions, and we often suppress our emotions (i.e., we don't act on every emotion) because we know that acting on every feeling will lead to consequences such as others not trusting us.

For those with borderline personalities, one of the key matters for them is that their emotions tend to be extreme, so extreme that they have difficulty regulating them, if they want to. This part is not necessarily obvious. Consider that if you are feeling good, do you feel a want to indulge in that feeling as deeply as possible, or do you tend to regulate your emotions even when you are feeling good? Many of us do just that, regulate, suppress our emotions, including how good we feel because on some level we know that if our emotions run away on us there is a risk of consequences.

While it's probably not possible to completely understand how she thinks, you could hypothesize how you'd think/feel if your emotions weren't regulated.

New member here

Have just begun NC with my ex - not diagnosed, but displayed lots of BPD traits, and made my lift a misery, but every time I left her, she persuaded me to give her one more chance, only to finish it herself in the end.

Since then she has made a lot of effort to stay in contact, but each time we speak, it's back to square one - she makes me feel guilty and totally to blame for what happened, and reminds me that a decent man would not cut off an ex.

It's all very depressing, this isn't the first time I have had a partner who I suspect has BPD and it's hard not to wonder how I'm attracting them - I think talking about my last experience when I met this one probably let her know I was an easy target.

I know NC is the only way to recover, so just posting and reading to help stay strong! I know she will be in touch again soon and it will be hard not to respond, but I must remember she does not having any interest in my well being at all, only what she can take from me.

bauie wrote:I have really wrestled with the question "do BPDs feel remorse" I saw my ex do some horrible things to people they supposedly loved, really rubbed their noses in it and I'm not talking about what she did to me. Its like they are so wrapped up in their world that they simply don't give a thought to how their actions affect other people. Only a BPD could answer that question but their actions certainly don't indicate that they care about other people.

10/10 people with BPD have a history of childhood emotional neglect/abuse by their closest relatives. Are these the loved ones you speak?

Hi Guys,

thought I'd give you an update on my suspected BPD ex. had some random, largely nonsensical texts from her, presumably drunk when sending. I didn't respond and she became abusive, I did eventually reply only too then receive short cold and demeaning texts then silence again.

Saw her in town a few weeks ago, she looked a complete state, was incredibly drunk and looked to had gain at least 10 pounds in weight. I know this is sometimes be rather pleasing to see an ex suffering following a breakup, but there was something really tragic about her appearance.

In replying to her then facing (once again) her cold, hurtful messages I feel I've put my recovery back to square one.

can anybody else relate or found themselves doing the same thing only to re-open a healing wound?

is visiting these types of sites something that can be counterproductive in terms of getting over your ex?

went to see my doctor this week about my current mental state, he started me on Zoloft. also referred me to a psych team. Here in the UK, this treatment is free provided you get a doctors referral.

Cheers,

Dave.