Do they still love you after they leave you?

so, i am still confused about splitting and i didn't really get a clear response from a borderline. so i am asking again hoping for a response.?. Can a borderline split you black and ignore you but contact you once a week being REALLY nice? ...then ignore you for another week, hence the cycle. why are they nice once a week - even for just 10 minutes. are you still being devalued during those 10 minutes or are you split white, then instantly split black again? will i ever be split white again for more than 10 minutes? just wondering...

marylynn wrote:so, i am still confused about splitting and i didn't really get a clear response from a borderline. so i am asking again hoping for a response.?. Can a borderline split you black and ignore you but contact you once a week being REALLY nice? ...then ignore you for another week, hence the cycle. why are they nice once a week - even for just 10 minutes. are you still being devalued during those 10 minutes or are you split white, then instantly split black again? will i ever be split white again for more than 10 minutes? just wondering...

Not everyone has splitting black and white. Are you talking about DID(as in alters)or BPD?
Either way, if I understand what you mean the answer yes, probably yes.

marylynn,
This is just my opinion, but I think they like to test people, check to see if that person still has anything for them (love, care, interest, etc.). It seems like they will throw out a bone (or something. Seems those with HPD do this a lot also) to see if you will bite. Does that mean that they are truly interested in someone? Not sure. Think it does mean though, they are interested to find out of a certain others are interested in them though.
I have been through this dilemma too. If someone is done with you, and/or has ill will towards you- ok then be done. This other part throws one off (is that what they like to do?), it's confusing, often to the point of "crazymaking".

I wonder if we who have continued on in these types of relationships, is it because we need healing ourselves, or that we are just more patient (or both). Ha, seriously how can someone live off scraps in a relationship? If that goes on for long, how can one even call that a relationship?
Another part that is the hook is, it seems that since people in these relationships want to hope that it will go back to a time when the good times lasted longer & you got more than a couple scraps.

So that's another question (or even what you were asking) what are the statistics on how often if goes back? Do most just cut it off (or maybe the others are the ones who cut it off because the one with BPD pushes them too far), does it just keep descending...?
It seems it can with those with HPD, since they have a habit of keeping past relationships on a line, usually willing to come back if the interest is still there. With those with ASPD, they will be there as long as you will have them-and they haven't gotten all they want from you. NPD, usually if you burn them they will drop you quick (not including coming back for revenge purposes), not too many second chances there.
Speaking of narcissism, those with BPD seem to switch into a level of narcissism- hence the cold shoulder treatment. The difference is, those with NPD live there all the time. The one with BPD is capable (I think) of genuine care... and those in relationships with them wish they could stay in that mode instead of letting narcissism take over.

thank you for such a well thought out reply. i appreciate it. i tend to agree with the 'testing' theory. i think she wants to know if i am still interested and when i show interest, she no longer is interested in me. wierd crazymaking, if you will. i wonder what the statistics are on percentages of bpd who do come back and split you white for a longer period of time. She did this to me before about a year ago because we got very close and i know it scared her. this time it just seems worse. dunno... any other feedback would be great! thank you very much. :]

Marylynn, all of us occassionally experience all nine of the BPD traits. The difference between nonBPDs like me and BPDs, as I understand it, is that BPDs experience them more intensely and more frequently. But, because BPDs are not all identical, there are some traits that an individual may experience frequently and others very rarely.

Splitting, for example, is something you did every day for years as a young child. And you still do it when you are startled or scared, as by a bus bearing down on you. Your brain is hardwired to go into splitting mode, during emergencies, for survival. It makes decision making far quicker and simpler, e.g., fight or flee, jump left or jump right. It is not surprising, then, that BPDs generally do it far more often given that they feel emergencies happening far more frequently than others do.

As SmallTalk states, splitting does not yield "black or white" for every BPD. Even when splitting does yield those polar extremes for a particular BPD, it doesn't always do that. What splitting means is that the person gets in touch with one set of feelings (likes you) while losing touch with the opposite set of feelings (dislikes you). Depending on how intense their emotions are, BPDs will lose touch with their good feelings to varying degrees, so somedays you will not be perceived as a devil but, rather, simply an unpleasant person.

That should be easy for you to identify with because all of us lose touch with one set of feelings to some degree -- even though we don't go all the way to seeing white or black. When this happens to us as adults, we have experienced it so many times -- and we are so well integrated -- that we either "know" or strong suspect that our anger is coloring our judgement. We therefore have learned to keep our mouths shut (or our fingers off the keys) during such periods. We tell ourselves that we will reassess the situation when we have time to cool off.

When we are not intensely angry, nonBPDs have mixed feelings about everything. That is, we love/hate nearly everything. Splitting is caused by an inability to be in touch with all those feelings at the same time, i.e., we integrate our disparate feelings. Like BPDs, we lose that ability whenever we experience extremely intense pleasure or pain. Hence, like BPDs, we tend to idealize a person during the three-month infatuation period of a new love affair and we tend to hate a person when he has hurt us deeply.

I thought that splitting was a cycle of devaluating and idealization.

I believe that what is confusing you is the notion that BPD mood changes come in "cycles" or "mood swings," terms that suggest regular intervals and gradual buildups to a different mood. In my experience, that does not occur at all due to BPD. Instead, BPD mood changes occur nearly instantaneously (e.g., 15 seconds) because they are event triggered, as by a trivial comment or action. Because you never know what will trigger your friend next -- and because her changes do not occur in cycles -- you always feel like you are walking on eggshells around her. When rages or sulking occurs, it typically lasts 5 to 36 hours.

This is not to say, however, that BPDs never experience mood swings that are caused by bipolar disorder. Perhaps a fourth of BPDs suffer from bipolar also. Moreover, all of us experience minor mood swings caused by changes in our body chemistry. Indeed, even taking 200 mg of caffeine will cause a substantial change. My point, then, is not that BPDs never experience mood "cycles" but, rather, that those types of mood changes are not caused by BPD. So, of course, a event-triggered mood change (resulting from BPD) can be made more severe if it coincides with some other mood change occurring in the person's body.

As to your friend's decision to treat you coldly, please don't beat yourself up about it. People who have strong BPD traits usually do not have any long-term close friendships because, as soon as a casual friend starts drawing close, she will be perceived as a threat. That is, as you became closer to your friend, you started triggering her twin fears of intimacy and abandonment -- something that casual friends cannot do.

Sadly, it's a lose-lose situation for her and you both. If you drew close, she would start feeling suffocated and engulfed. If you backed off just a little to give her breathing room, she would start fearing abandonment. I spent 15 years trying to find the safe middle ground and I'm here to tell you that -- if it exists at all -- it is a knife edge that is continually shifting. Yes, you said the worst possible thing when you threatened to leave, thus delivering an ultimatum. But, if you hadn't done that, she likely would have gotten angry with you over some trivial thing to push you back to a safe distance.

Finally, you are starting to realize another reality that also took me 15 years to learn: you can never build up any lasting good will or appreciation with a person suffering from very strong BPD traits. Their day-to-day emotions are so intense that they sweep aside past good feelings they have had about you. Trying to build up good will (that could tide you through the hard times) is as futile as trying to build a lasting sand castle next to the ocean.

So, if you want to stay around her because you enjoy her company, that is fine. Do it for that reason. But be careful to keep an eye on your expectations of any lasting appreciation. It likely will not last for more than a few days. And it is not her fault. She likely desperately wants a friend. And she likely wants to appreciate you and make you happy. Based on what you've said about her, however, it sounds like she is not capable of sustaining those good feelings.

I haven't seen any statistics but I doubt that there are more than 1 in 100 BPDs who are able to break through the fear and pain into a state of self awareness where they actually concede to themselves that they suffer from BPD. Significantly, the comments I made above are generalizations about most of the 99, not the one who breaks through. I say this because I've never even met a self-aware BPD in person. They are exceptional people with remarkable courage. I have no idea what they are capable of achieving or doing.

I do believe, however, that they can heal themselves if they are strongly committed to years of therapy with a good therapist. As you know, at least half the folks on this forum are BPDs and all of them are in that elite group. So please do not think that my comments necessarily pertain to any of them. Marylynn, I wish you the best of luck with your friend.

so,... here i am... on my couch crying-which i have not done in over a month. i am crying for me, i am crying for her, i am crying over reality. i want to thank you so much for your response. i am trying to be the best possible friend to her, but i can see now that what i perceive and what she perceives are totally different. i can't believe i said the worse possible thing to her. i feel so bad and sad ... i think at this point she will not be close with me again because of my ultimatum. we were so emotionally intimate. i am so mad at myself and feel so ignorant and dumb... thanx for the very detailed response. i feel really special that someone would take the time to care about me enough to try to help. thank you.

i can't believe i said the worse possible thing to her

Marylynn, I'm sorry I didn't make myself clearer. What I was trying to say was that the thing that was triggering her pain was not your misguided threat but, rather, your being so close to her and being such a good friend. Trying to be help a BPD sufferer by loving her -- the sort of thing you would automatically do for any good friend -- is like trying to heal a burn patient by hugging her. Because she has an unstable self image, it is very scary for her to be intimate with anyone. It makes her feel like she is being engulfed and she cannot tell where she leaves off and you begin. So she had to push you away.

As to the threat itself, yes, you should avoid saying that out of a sense of kindness and consideration. But, as far as your relationship is concerned, it likely did not matter much that you said the wrong thing. Indeed, you said it because she had already started pushing you away. If you had said nothing wrong, she would have started a fight over the "tone" of something you said -- or over some trivial thing you did. So, your falling out of favor with her was inevitable.

For those of us who were spouses to BPDs, we found that fights and drama were unavoidable no matter how closely you watch what you say. Nearly every wonderful intimate evening would be followed -- as night is by day -- by a fight the next morning over absolutely nothing, e.g., the "tone" of what we mumbled at breakfast.

Consequently, when I said that you said the worst thing, I did not mean to imply that it changed the course of your friendship. You have virtually no control over that. So, please, don't shed a tear over your misguided statement. What is worth crying over, however, is the fact that she likely was abandoned or abused in early childhood and continues to suffer 24/7 as an adult. That is simply heartbreaking.

If you think it is painful to watch your friend slip away from you while you are helpless to change it, imagine how painful it was for me to watch my ex slip away from me. I had lived with her for 15 years and had loved her ever since I met her 46 years ago. She was my first love. But I am not driving myself crazy worrying about what I said to her. There was no right thing that could be said. Like I explained, it is a lose-lose situation for her and me because there was no safe middle ground I could stand on where I could avoid causing her pain.

thank your for your clarification. i really thought you were implying that since it was such an awful statement, she left me. if i am understanding you correctly, she is almost using that as the excuse as to why she is no longer close to me. if i had not set her off, she would have fabricated something to become more and more distant (which was already happening-hence the ultimatum). My friend was adopted as an infant, and still complains about that daily. her quote is, "if my own birth mother could abandon me, then anyone can." i never understood that cos she was adopted as a newborn into a loving family. i know her parents and they are nice people who do anything for her. could bpd develop in this situation. or do you think her adoptive parents emotionally/physically/sexually abused her and she just never told me. she complains about her dad and says he yells alot, but never said it was abusive. on a different note, i am so sorry about your loss. it saddens me that you have known your ex for so long. i can only imagine the pain you went through as a non-borderline trying your hardest and never being able to accomplish your goal of her feeling continuously safe around you.

If I had not set her off, she would have fabricated something to become more and more distant

The BPDs on this forum can speak to this issue far better than I. But, until they weigh in, I will respond as best as I can. It is my understanding that, no, she probably did not fabricate something to push you away. Instead, her feeling of being engulfed and losing herself into you was so uncomfortable, if not painful, that she misperceived you as being controlling and harmful. So she actually believes that you did or said something wrong. This is why BPD is said to be a "thought disorder" -- it distorts her perception of what is transpiring in your relationship.

She is almost using that as the excuse as to why she is no longer close to me.

Perhaps, but that is unlikely. To say that she is almost using your threat as an excuse overlooks the fact that you and your friend do not share the same reality as far as your relationship is concerned. While she is splitting you black, she really believes you said or did something wrong (even before your threat). She really believes you are the cause of the breakup. Although she is the real cause of the breakup, it is too painful for her to recognize that at a conscious level. So she projects the blame onto you. And she believes her projections.

Yet, outside her relationships with other people, her perception of reality likely is as accurate as it is for nonBPDs. This is why BPD sufferers are not considered to be "crazy." We all experience bad periods in which our perceptions of other people are darkly colored by our negative emotions. With BPD sufferers, it is more intense and happens more frequently.

This is not to say, however, that she will never fabricate excuses. Because it is so painful for her to acknowledge making a mistake, she likely will lie before doing that. But even then she likely will believe you are the one at fault and that her lies are necessary only because you are better at verbal debates. My ex, for example, frequently lied and she frequently complained that I was "beating her down" with my superior debating skills. From my ex's point of view, then, she was fighting in the trenches and was forced to lie to ensure her survival.

I know her parents and they are nice people who do anything for her. Could BPD develop in this situation?

Yes, it could -- and it apparently does. Research studies indicate that, for approximately one-third of BPD sufferers, there is no evidence whatsoever of abuse or abandonment occuring in childhood. It is because of the other group of two-thirds, then, that you will read BPD is "usually caused" by abuse or abandonment in childhood.

thank you for your great detailed responses! you should be a therapist. lol!! on a serious note, i really appreciate all of your feedback. my best friend called me this morning at 7:00 to see if i already had plans for the day with my daughter. i told her my daughter was sick with a high temp (which is the truth) so we are not going to hang out. i was happy that she showed effort and i really was happy that she called me so early to ensure she got to ask me first. it made me feel like she was making a concerted effort. you are making me realize that she is NOT being manipulative. i thought for so long that she was consistently playing mind games instead of her fighting to survive. what does the pain feel like for borderlines?? is it a constant empty feeling like depression or is it a knot in thier stomach because they fear losing people they love or is it a comletely different feeling altogether? also- speaking of borderlines having a skewed sense of reality, she sent me a text a few weeks ago. when i approached her about it the next morning she stated, without a doubt, she did not send a text. i showed her my phone and she still 100% denied it. i asked her if she thought i was dillusional and she just chuckled and said she could not explain anything but she knows she did not send a message. about 3 hours later, she found me at work to tell me she kind of remembers, maybe, sending it. so, she wasn't necessarily lying?? she really might have believed she didn't send it? did your ex ever do such things?