Looking to understand Ex-HPD's behaviours!

xdude wrote:

mark1958 wrote:To xdude, I have reread your post again and see a lot of myself in it. Hmmm

On the positive side, you are going to end up a new and better you for the (painful) learning experiences you've gone through. The support she receives from others, especially males (that I wrote about in that post) are also going to end up being the very reason/s that the odds of her doing the same, of introspecting and questioning herself, near zero.

Which situation is better/worse to be in?

xdude, as a side note...did you ever read the definition of vulnerable narcissist?
It really made me think...

Hi everyone!

A few very good points were brought up since I last posted.

You definitely have strong narcissistic tendencies. You may wish to explore further (if you have not already) how this affects your day to day life, your attraction to certain types of women, and your career interests.

I am starting to realize this myself. I want stability, I want to be able to live a life where I can go shopping with my girlfriend (just a silly example) but no "normal" girl can put up with me. The only ones that stick around are the ones who have mental health issues, or the ones that aren't afraid to put me in my place when I am being "bad". Sorry I might have already mentioned this. At the moment I have one girl (she is one of the lab technicians in the teaching lab I am teaching in) that is showing me signs that she likes me (getting in my personal space, trying to act cute in front of me, etc.) and I am starting to like her myself... but I know she will run once the realizes that my boisterous nature isn't just reserved for teaching... it goes everywhere. I am assuming she is attracted to my loud nature as she is the polar opposite, very shy and reserved. And it is just impossible to control myself...

One thing you learn about HPDs is that they often "trade down." When they exit one type of relationship they often go after something "easy" to boost their fractured self-esteem. Since you were the initial target, and you represented someone who offers her more, and you refused, she needed to have an easier fall back position.

I decided to do some investigating using one of my alternate accounts and I can pretty confirm what has been posted here. I found out who the current "stable" is: a guy same age as me. He grew up in her town, attended an alternate education program, grew up in foster care, and would not be considered physically attractive. She is buttering him up saying how handsome she considers him. Moreover he openly talks about his poor self-esteem. The "sick" part of me is revolted that he is not bright enough to see what is going on... the rational part of me feels regret for him as he does not know what he has coming.

Finally, I am not so sure she is done with you. HPDs hate to lose. They are very competitive and ego centric. She probably can not figure out why you do not "want" her. She may come back to you in the future. They really have no sense of "time." (another fascinating thing that does not get discussed as much as it should, imho). So it could be many months in the future.

But be forewarned, it is not for sincere purposes. If she can "capture" you and then devalue and discard you on her terms, then her self esteem and sense of power will zoom.

Yes and I fear this because I know what I am going to do: I am likely going to reply to her Hoovering with more comments intended at degrading her and boosting myself... but deep inside all I would be doing is developing feelings for her. My form of developing feelings for women is driving them into the ground - it is quite nauseating.

Therefore the rational part of me knows that it would be good if she never returned as I would take the bait, but only in an attempt to boost myself. In reality I would be hurting myself.

And yes we should talk more about HPD time: they do have some very contorted version of time. I noticed that myself from the get go. For example when she started to devalue me it was literally overnight. And then after calling her to chuck her she promptly returned... as if we had not spoken for years and everything was fixed.

Lastly with respect to maternal/paternal influences... again everything matches up with what you guys are saying. Dad was some wannabe tough guy who would be absent for long periods of time. Mom was a drunk. The HPD refused to go eat with her dad one time because she felt bad that he was paying for her (my interpretation of this is that she felt so lowly of herself that she felt she did not deserve to have someone pay for her. She did the same with me... I was not allowed to buy her coffee). The opposite is true in my case: if someone were to offer to buy me coffee I would gladly take it (and think to myself how I just saved $2.00).

Hey 10dsw,

Short thought is that people with HPD seem to be very intuitive. Clearly she is on your mind now, so, whether done consciously or unconsciously, she found what it would take to get your attention. Yes, it's at a distance for the most part, but that's how it starts.

Fr4nz83 wrote:xdude, as a side note...did you ever read the definition of vulnerable narcissist?
It really made me think...

Yes, and also some articles differentiate by 'simple' vs 'compensatory', but the basic idea is the same. I suppose from the outside though it can be hard to see the difference. Probably because even 'simple' types are extremely sensitive to criticism, and challenge to their core sense of how they see themselves and want others to see them.

Short thought is that people with HPD seem to be very intuitive. Clearly she is on your mind now, so, whether done consciously or unconsciously, she found what it would take to get your attention. Yes, it's at a distance for the most part, but that's how it starts.

Yea it sucks... I could have cared less about her for the last 2 months, then I randomly came across HPD when I was researching something to do with statistics, and everything fit... with all this knowledge now I almost want to experiment with her...

10dsw wrote:

Short thought is that people with HPD seem to be very intuitive. Clearly she is on your mind now, so, whether done consciously or unconsciously, she found what it would take to get your attention. Yes, it's at a distance for the most part, but that's how it starts.

Yea it sucks... I could have cared less about her for the last 2 months, then I randomly came across HPD when I was researching something to do with statistics, and everything fit... with all this knowledge now I almost want to experiment with her...

Why not?
Just treat her with respect and be very careful

10dsw wrote:Yea it sucks... I could have cared less about her for the last 2 months, then I randomly came across HPD when I was researching something to do with statistics, and everything fit... with all this knowledge now I almost want to experiment with her...

10dsw,

My concern for you is that:

You are writing like many of us males do; about emotions from an intellectual point of view. Not that doing so is entirely a bad thing. It's just the way we guys handle our stresses, and sometimes protect our self-esteem. We guys tend to place a high value on logic, and thinking, but...

In the realm of living in ones emotions of the moment, avoiding logic in the pursuit to feel good or to get what she wants, well, odds are she is far far more adept than you can yet fathom. You are not going to get into her head and change her with any logical thinking, but the odds of her dragging you into her world?

So the harsh thing to accept is... If we can't even master our own want to do ego battles with her, to win, to control someone who is driven mostly by emotions, if we can't even change that in ourselves, what are the odds you are going to change someone whose entire life has been one of swimming in emotions?

p.s. I don't mean to imply that women don't value logic, but there are so many women who have a healthy balance of emotions and thinking. Unfortunately we guys with our own issues tend to overlook them. If you really believe she is disordered though, you are not going to change her, but the odds of her changing you, and leaving you feeling utterly hurt, confused, a broken man, very high.

Thanks for the reply xdude.

I guess it seemed I was interested in getting back together with her the way I worded my previous post. That is not the case. Yea at the end playing around with her was fun but the rational part of me could and would never let her in. I understand there is no changing her.

Do I regret any of this though? No. This has been an amazing learning experience

10dsw wrote: I want stability, I want to be able to live a life where I can go shopping with my girlfriend (just a silly example) but no "normal" girl can put up with me.

Yes, I understand what you are referencing. But what is the definition of normal anyway? We all have flaws, personality quirks, patterns of thought, etc., It makes us all unique. I am of the mind that there is always someone who fits us, and vice versa.. There is always a match somewhere.

I would also suspect that many of us, if not most, would want the "stable" things as well. And yes, the "simple" things you mention above is what relationships are really all about, imho. The camaraderie , partnership, etc. It is a mature way to look at a relationship.

10dsw wrote: I am starting to like her myself... but I know she will run once the realizes that my boisterous nature isn't just reserved for teaching... it goes everywhere. I am assuming she is attracted to my loud nature as she is the polar opposite, very shy and reserved. And it is just impossible to control myself...

Don't underestimate yourself. You appear to have some fine qualities that many women may find attractive. You are young as well and have plenty of time. If you like her, then go for it.

The best advice I can give you on this is: Learn as much as you can about yourself and how your narcissism may manifest itself in your interpersonal relationships. I am doing the same and I am much older then you. Once armed with this knowledge, you will know how to direct your life and future relationships much better. And it will happen for you.

xdude wrote:Short thought is that people with HPD seem to be very intuitive. Clearly she is on your mind now, so, whether done consciously or unconsciously, she found what it would take to get your attention. Yes, it's at a distance for the most part, but that's how it starts.

Yes. This is how it does indeed start. Even though you may have discovered that she is "disordered", 10dsw, she has started to intrigue and interest you. You may claim that you are only having "fun" with her, but they do get "inside" of you very quickly.

xdude wrote:In the realm of living in ones emotions of the moment, avoiding logic in the pursuit to feel good or to get what she wants, well, odds are she is far far more adept than you can yet fathom. You are not going to get into her head and change her with any logical thinking, but the odds of her dragging you into her world?

This is a good comment. They are "disordered" (presumably) and expecting them to act normally is an exercise in futility. They do not "see" the world as you do. This does not make them "bad" individuals per se. It is how they survive.

xdude wrote: If you really believe she is disordered though, you are not going to change her, but the odds of her changing you, and leaving you feeling utterly hurt, confused, a broken man, very high.

The strongest men, 10dsw, have fallen for HPDs. (I suspect for centuries). They have a charm, a magnetism, a child like vulnerability, that wear down even the most solid of ego defenses. They are chameleons, they can "model" themselves into any type of women. Notice how your's changed for you in terms of her photo's, appearance, etc Once you are captured, it is very hard to break free. The have the uncanny ability to get you to "attach" to them on a subconscious level. And then the heartache begins.

mark1958 wrote:The best advice I can give you on this is: Learn as much as you can about yourself...

Agreed. And many Non's don't know themselves. As it happens I know myself very well (after decades of introspection). That said I've learned about Emotional Unavailability (and how that relates to me) and Personality Disorders both of which I was unaware of.

I believe that being honest with ones-self, especially emotionally, is crucial to happiness. When it comes to relationships (not just romantic) all one can do is be honest and hope the other person can be too. If they aren't or are unable (e.g. pwPD) you at least know you've done your best. You have not failed if the relationship fails. One can be secure in the knowledge that they did all they could.

IMO using/manipulating others never works in the long term. That's true even for pwPD's. The irony is that all their machinations don't get them what they want/need but they're often not self-aware enough to notice that. Sucks to be them them I guess.

mark1958 wrote:The strongest men, 10dsw, have fallen for HPDs. (I suspect for centuries).

Some historians believe Cleopatra was Histrionic (Hysteric). That didn't work out so well for Marc Antony. I, personally, feel no shame for being taken in by a HPD.