Looking to understand Ex-HPD's behaviours!

Thanks for the reply HPD-Victim.

One last interesting thing: I met one of my friends (whom she babysits for) at another get together not too long ago and he started talking to me about how me and her had sex. I made it very clear to him that me and her did NOT have sex. What I am getting out of this is that she is going around lying that we had sex. If this is true I am amazed at the level of insecurity as most girls would not go around lying about having sex. On the contrary males would do such a thing.

Does anyone know how good these girls are at remembering specific details? My sister who has BPD (surprise!) remembers literally every single detail about any guy she has met/dated, from the date they started talking, to what they talked about on their first date... etc. And it is amazing as I do not otherwise consider her a very detail-oriented person. I am going to assume that HPD type girls are the same?

Lastly I think this post might be in the wrong forum - should it not be in the HPD forum? Did I put it into the wrong forum or was it moved?

10dsw wrote:One last interesting thing: I met one of my friends (whom she babysits for) at another get together not too long ago and he started talking to me about how me and her had sex. I made it very clear to him that me and her did NOT have sex.

This is where, IMO. it gets tricky. Do HPD' tell lies--that is things that aren't true? Yes they do. That said in some cases, and I don't know about yours, they can really believe those lies.

From everything I've read HPD's often live in a fantasy/dreamlike world. To say they lie while true isn't the whole story. From their perspective what they feel is true to them. That's why confronting them is often useless/pointless. They'll just think you're crazy. That said the Disingenuous type can and does tell deliberate lies from my understanding.

How do you judge someone that truly believes their own lies?

10dsw wrote:Does anyone know how good these girls are at remembering specific details?

Again everything I've read is that they have, at best, selective memories. They repress a great deal.

10dsw wrote:Lastly I think this post might be in the wrong forum - should it not be in the HPD forum?

The HPD forum is for those with HPD to discuss issues. I read threads there but rarely post.

Just to expand on lying.

There are different kinds of lies. For example there's the explicit "I did X" where X didn't occur. Whether deliberate or not it is fairly easily detected if one can ask others etc.

That said there are lies of omission--that is by leaving out certain facts. For example "I can't do X because I''m in Y (some distant location)". Fine but if the reality is that "I can't do X because I'm in Y with Z (e.g. some guy)" the entire context is different. Is the first statement a lie? Technically everything stated is true but it's not the whole truth.

The person I know, with HPD, lies by omission all the time. The problem is that such lies can be very hard to detect. It comes down to trust and once you see you've been lied to how do you determine what's true and what's not? You can't.

Thanks for clarifying the posting location issue.

I can understand the part you mentioned about believing one's own lies. I have told the odd lie so many times myself that I would come to believe it was not a lie. It was almost as if I was gaslighting myself... as I felt it. This was an issue when I was younger though. For example if I didn't do some homework assignment in middle school I would lie that I forgot to bring it to school. I would tell myself this lie so many times that I would actually believe it and I managed to convince the teachers based on seeming genuine. This was an issue for any class I didn't care about such as English class... the only class I put an effort into was math. So I am starting to understand the trend here.

I also agree with the selective memories part. When I called the girl to tell her that I would give her a break I was nicely implying that I don't want anything to do with her anymore. At least that is how a normal girl would have taken this phone call. But nope, a week later she returned as if no phone call was ever made and as if we were best friends. I was amazed. In a twist 2 months later she actually acknowledged the phone call and said she "let things be" after that phone call. Obviously that was not the case as she had returned only a week later. Another white lie. It is amazing how much repression, time shifting, gaslighting, bamboozling and other manipulations these girls employ.

And before I suspected (or even knew about) HPD I confronted her about her odd behaviours. As I said she just got extremely emotional and kept giving me the line "I don't know what I did wrong to you" and "I'm so sorry". Very abnormal for a girl I had seen a total of 3 times in my life.

10dsw wrote:It is amazing how much repression, time shifting, gaslighting, bamboozling and other manipulations these girls employ.

Yes. A word of warning. Some HPD's can wage war very effectively if you piss them off. I don't know your situation but if she can start rumors, make allegations against you and so on it can pay to try and inoculate yourself. Some people find out the hard way about this.

For example I sent a purely information text to the woman with HPD I know last Thursday (which she never acknowledged in any way). For long and involved reasons it probably pissed her off. I found out earlier tonight that she attended a function with a bunch of people I know on Friday night. Knowing her she was up to something mostly likely saying stuff, subtly, against me. Most of those people know the score and I've done nothing wrong but I'm certain it wasn't coincidence.

It can pay to be a little paranoid.

Thanks for the warning. I agree and as a matter of fact I am very paranoid about people in general. Obviously I have a primary Facebook account as I have stated but I have 2 additional Facebook accounts (Aliases: Asian men in their 40's) that I use to watch people (i.e. girls that I am seeing). This is NOT because I am trying to be creepy... it is because I am trying to protect myself from any BS that may be coming my way. For the HPD case for example I found she was hiding certain posts she made from me, simply by looking at her profile using one of my alias accounts. I can guarantee you she is watching my account from one of her additional accounts as well (she has one additional account with her same name but I can guarantee you she has other accounts as well, once she learned to use aliases).

I have a VERY similar story to yours: There was that final week where I just got tired of her futile attempts at sucking me back in and I basically told her what I thought of her. The Friday that week she visited my friend's house, the friend whom hosted the party that I met her at (she had to post pictures of the experience on social media for people to see), also the friend whom I found out shared my details with her so she could find me. Anyhow I can guarantee you she went there for one reason and one reason only: to complain about me and spread slander.

She can wage war, I believe it. I'm sure that on top of those 10+ guys chasing her she has another flock protecting her: the white knights. I do not fear these types however as despite their low intellectual capacity even they will one day realize they are being used and in the end they will feel incredibly worthless. If anything I feel bad for them and I hope they realize this sooner than later.

10dsw, you asked some posts earlier if there's any difference between BPD and HPD.

Well, the behaviours are very, VERY similar, and indeed some therapists may make a wrong diagnosis, but the core reason behind the disorders are slightly different - even though there is some literature which state that HPDs may decompose towards BPDs when they are under heavy stress.
Also, there's a high rate of comorbility (if I remember correctly it is around 30-40%, but I may be wrong).

If we want to make a very gross simplification, HPDs can be described as a more "high-functioning" and a lot more funny versions of BPDs.

However, BPD and HPD traits are different (even if they mix in a LOT of cases...), as well as the core reasons behind the disorders: BPDs crave for validation, while HPDs crave for attention (which in turn is a tool to get validation/sense of worthiness). Both stem from deep, deep issues with self-esteem.

Speaking about the need for attention in HPDs, this translates into behaviours like extreme flirtitiousness, the need to be "the life of a party", etc. This is why HPDs are, in general, so, SO funny!

You can find some interesting academic material here:
http://www.universitypsychiatry.com/cli ... _PICPs.pdf (histrionism)
http://www.universitypsychiatry.com/cli ... _PICPs.pdf (borderline)
http://maretwebproject.com/users/docs/histrionic.pdf
http://maretwebproject.com/users/docs/borderline.pdf

You may want to read some Masterson's book as well.

In general, having to deal with cluster B people (put aside ASPDs or cluster B people with anti-social traits...they may be dangerous to deal with, better avoid) can be really, really funny and/or a unique (in a positive sense) and enriching experience...IF you can keep them at arms length (no romantic relationship) and manage their drama. Basically, this requires to enforce strong boundaries...it's like playing with fire: if you're careful you may really enjoy it, otherwise you may get seriously burned.
Anyhow, I don't think you have problems in enforcing boundaries, given your sadistic tendencies...

As a side note, you sound a little bit as a cluster C personality...is it possible?

They are funny... I admit. I had quite a blast "playing" her once I detected the patterns (although one could say she was also playing me). Chemistry and math are both studies involving patterns. You need to master the underlying patterns in order to be able to effectively work either field. It almost seems as if the same general idea applies to the HPD relationship: once the pattern is learned it does not take much to cut through the deceit, bamboozling and other nonsense. What I am saying is that I do not regret this, I actually see it as a major learning experience.

I actually backed up that literature you included onto my USB because it is so far a very good read.

The obsessive compulsive type personality does somewhat apply to me. One disorder that several doctors have brought up was the possibility of Asperger's disorder based on the strong interest(s) I have mentioned in addition to my rigidity, and general disinterest/disgust in/of other people. Others however disagreed based on my loud, sometimes extreme nature and the fact that I do have a social network. If I do have AS genes it is possible I outgrew the disorder (this is possible to my knowledge). The other disorder that was brought up was NPD as I have mentioned. The lack of observable empathy does exist in both.

10dsw wrote:They are funny... I admit. I had quite a blast "playing" her once I detected the patterns (although one could say she was also playing me). Chemistry and math are both studies involving patterns. You need to master the underlying patterns in order to be able to effectively work either field. It almost seems as if the same general idea applies to the HPD relationship: once the pattern is learned it does not take much to cut through the deceit, bamboozling and other nonsense. What I am saying is that I do not regret this, I actually see it as a major learning experience.

I actually backed up that literature you included onto my USB because it is so far a very good read.

The obsessive compulsive type personality does somewhat apply to me. One disorder that several doctors have brought up was the possibility of Asperger's disorder based on the strong interest(s) I have mentioned in addition to my rigidity, and general disinterest/disgust in/of other people. Others however disagreed based on my loud, sometimes extreme nature and the fact that I do have a social network. If I do have AS genes it is possible I outgrew the disorder (this is possible to my knowledge). The other disorder that was brought up was NPD as I have mentioned. The lack of observable empathy does exist in both.

So it is possible you are a mix of cluster B/C traits....very interesting!
Anyway, I work in a math subfield (CS), so I can relate to what you said in the first paragraph.

Fr4nz83 wrote:In general, having to deal with cluster B people (put aside ASPDs or cluster B people with anti-social traits...they may be dangerous to deal with, better avoid) can be really, really funny and/or a unique (in a positive sense) and enriching experience...

The more theatrical/dramatic ones could be "funny" I guess. The one I know is the rarer passive-aggressive type (not theatrical/dramatic) plus quite asexual.
[She and I are in our early 50's]

She can be fun at times but in the end its all an act with nothing behind it. It just gets, well, tiring.

Fr4nz83 wrote:IF you can keep them at arms length (no romantic relationship) and manage their drama. Basically, this requires to enforce strong boundaries...it's like playing with fire: if you're careful you may really enjoy it, otherwise you may get seriously burned.

Exactly, People that have their own PD issues seem to be able to play with the HPD fire without getting burned too badly. Non's, especially older ones like me, generally prefer to have actual human relationships (not necessarily romantic) with others. Never going to happen with a HPD.

BTW some HPD's are attracted to those with OCD/OCPD traits. Add NPD into the mix and 10dsw is just a big honey pot to the HPD bees