Looking to understand Ex-HPD's behaviours!

HPD-Victim wrote:Agreed. And many Non's don't know themselves. As it happens I know myself very well (after decades of introspection). That said I've learned about Emotional Unavailability (and how that relates to me) and Personality Disorders both of which I was unaware of.

I believe that being honest with ones-self, especially emotionally, is crucial to happiness. When it comes to relationships (not just romantic) all one can do is be honest and hope the other person can be too. If they aren't or are unable (e.g. pwPD) you at least know you've done your best. You have not failed if the relationship fails. One can be secure in the knowledge that they did all they could.

IMO using/manipulating others never works in the long term. That's true even for pwPD's. The irony is that all their machinations don't get them what they want/need but they're often not self-aware enough to notice that. Sucks to be them them I guess.

I believe the above by HPD victim is the absolute truth. I also believe it is the key to healing/moving on from any relationship from a pwpd. Having a relationship with a pwpd can be a very emotionally draining/punishing affair. In addition, many pwpd fall on a "spectrum" of being very destructive; emotionally, financially, and even physically. This can leave scars that can last for a lifetime. I was fortunate in that regard.

You must, imho, being willing to do the hard work of self examination. I have stated before that the true gift a HPD gives a non, is a period of deep introspection. The pain/hurt is unlike any I have ever felt before. I needed to ask "why." Only by going on this search was I able to identify "issues" within myself that once understood, will lead to greater growth, understanding, and happiness moving forward. Good post HPD victim

mark1958 wrote:They are "disordered" (presumably) and expecting them to act normally is an exercise in futility. They do not "see" the world as you do. This does not make them "bad" individuals per se. It is how they survive.

Forgive me for quoting myself, 10dsw, but I really want to emphasize this point. It seems straightforward enough, but to this day I need to repeat it to myself often.

My ex could act like an absolute 5 year old at times. She would pout, go silent, withdraw, ignore , withhold and all kinds of passive aggressive hell. There was simply no way to reach her at all. This was in addition, to the constant "testing", flirting, and other unusual behaviors.

Her reactions to basic things would be perplexing. You just could not determine in advance how she would behave in any given situation. There were many nights I would go home, sit down and go "what just happened?". It leaves an individual in pain, confused, and very unsure of what to do.

This is why you are warned to be "careful" with your HPD. The relationship dynamics are unlike anything you have ever experienced before.

mark1958 wrote:

mark1958 wrote:They are "disordered" (presumably) and expecting them to act normally is an exercise in futility. They do not "see" the world as you do. This does not make them "bad" individuals per se. It is how they survive.

Forgive me for quoting myself, 10dsw, but I really want to emphasize this point. It seems straightforward enough, but to this day I need to repeat it to myself often.

My ex could act like an absolute 5 year old at times. She would pout, go silent, withdraw, ignore , withhold and all kinds of passive aggressive hell. There was simply no way to reach her at all. This was in addition, to the constant "testing", flirting, and other unusual behaviors.

Her reactions to basic things would be perplexing. You just could not determine in advance how she would behave in any given situation. There were many nights I would go home, sit down and go "what just happened?". It leaves an individual in pain, confused, and very unsure of what to do.

This is why you are warned to be "careful" with your HPD. The relationship dynamics are unlike anything you have ever experienced before.

I have to highlight once more what Mark said, since I experienced the very same dynamics (I also have to be honest in saying that my ex has 7 out of 9 BPD traits as well...).

Guys, just out of curiosity: have your ex HPDs ever broke NC with you?
I'm at almost 7 months of NC and not a peep from both sides...the only indirect contact I had from her was when she unblocked me in whatsapp (I'm not blocked in FB) and, simultaneously added a song in my Spotify account (we used to share it - she added a song called "9 Crimes" from Damien Rice...kind of strange apology from her, read the lyrics) back on March. I always kept my NC stance.

mark1958 wrote:You just could not determine in advance how she would behave in any given situation.

Mark, although that isn't funny it made me LOL I could say you have to toss a coin but a coin only has two sides (50/50 chance of being right). I'd say it's more like a Magic Eight Ball except all the answers are "I don't have a f...ing clue!".

Fr4nz83 wrote:Guys, just out of curiosity: have your ex HPDs ever broke NC with you?

I'm not yet NC. I was LC and am now VLC but it wouldn't shock me if she calls/texts at some point.

PS: I'm not on any Social Media sites and never have/will be. You put anything on those and it's forever There's no such thing as "delete" on the internet..

HPD-Victim wrote:Mark, although that isn't funny it made me LOL

It is funny in hindsight HPD Victim. I would like to illustrate how the "poison" still lingers in the system, however. I was at a musical event with friends this past Friday. It was an open floor event with limited seating. Naturally, there were other men present at this function. The thought occurred to me, that if I were with my exHPD at this event, I would be filled with anxiety to see who she may be interested in "talking to." ( a favorite term of hers for flirting). I laughed about it, so that is a good sign!

You can really see how, over time, you can become sick yourself with all of the toxic thoughts/feelings.

Fr4nz83 wrote:Guys, just out of curiosity: have your ex HPDs ever broke NC with you?

A good question Fr4nz83 and something I have thought a lot about. My answer is yes and no.

I have not been "hoovered" in the sense of how we all understand the term and how it has been related by other posters. She has not texted, emailed or called me directly. She has never tried to bring me back into the relationship.

Reading the HPD forum and the posts of self-aware HPDs, many have not/or will not "hoover." (another thing that goes against the stereotype). Many state it is a pride thing (depending on who initiated the breakup) or that they have just moved on. Now I do know, that they can come back at any time. Even years later, so who knows.

Like HPD victim, I do not use social media sites.

However, she has made contact with me as I explain below. ( I suppose one could call this hoovering, not sure)

She did speak with me for the first time a few weeks ago. And she was the one who initiated contact. (it was inconsequential). I have a limited contact situation with her since she is part of a very important social network that I belong to. I have seen her a few times.

She has tried to get my attention at some of these events. She physically "bumped" into me to let me know she was there. ( I already knew, who could not! lol!). More importantly though, I am now fairly certain that I have been hoovered by "proxy" with her brother.

Her brother is her chief enabler, and a major source of her "supply." He still contacts me to this day. He befriended me long before I ever got involved with his sister. However, I do suspect he is giving her status reports on me. But I am not sharing any information with him.

I know this isn't an ideal situation, but for now I am stuck with it.

mark1958 wrote:...
Her reactions to basic things would be perplexing. You just could not determine in advance how she would behave in any given situation. There were many nights I would go home, sit down and go "what just happened?". It leaves an individual in pain, confused, and very unsure of what to do.

At first I was utterly confused. Later I reached a point where I could predict with a lot of accuracy how she'd react/act, but that still didn't help. It didn't change that how she'd react/act still had the same the impact on me. I don't think I could explain it entirely, but the short version is I came to learn when she was going to act on perceived ego-threats or ego-boosters (normal enough, except the degree); what those ego threats/boosters were; and the tricky part... that she had mood cycles, so depending on where she was in that cycle, well you get the idea... Mood cycles are probably normal enough too, just that most of us are less reactive to them.

Honestly on some level I felt bad for her too because I couldn't imagine (at our age range) still being so reactive to my own emotions, so utterly consumed by them that it's not possible to stand back even a little bit and view ones own emotions from the 3rd person point of view. I probably go to the other extreme though, spend far to much time thinking, a stand back position to avoid feeling. Maybe that was part of the attraction? An opposite attracts thing, presumably because they may balance each other.

Anyway yes one of the most painful things I ever experienced, and at times she dragged me far more into her realm of perception than I ever did encourage her to seeing mine. We who intellectualize are not well prepared to deal with extreme emotions. Again though just maybe.... She changed to a degree, but just as I fall back on turning emotions off and thinking, no surprise she is going to fall back on her coping mechanisms too. Like you wrote, it's just what they need to do to survive.

xdude wrote:Later I reached a point where I could predict with a lot of accuracy how she'd react/act, but that still didn't help. It didn't change that how she'd react/act still had the same the impact on me.

I've never been able to predict her behavior with any certainty. That said I fully understand the "still didn't help" part. No matter how hard I tried I still fell under her spell to some degree. Only afterwards would I realize things that I'd missed in real-time.

Perhaps we should stamp their foreheads with

"Handle with care! For professional use only!"

PS: I should add that there are some that can deal with HPD's.

People more disordered than they are. e.g. Psychopaths, AsPD's, some NPD's etc.

Professional and experienced (with pwPD's) therapists.

Some "player" type (e.g. Alpha male) Non's.

xdude wrote:Anyway yes one of the most painful things I ever experienced, and at times she dragged me far more into her realm of perception than I ever did encourage her to seeing mine.

This is a very intriguing comment xdude. One of the things I found myself doing, was trying to figure out how to "recapture" her attention. To "redirect" her attention/affection back in my direction. In a sense I was being her. How do I 'manipulate" this situation/person to my favor. This was not a deliberate focus of mine. It seemed I was doing this as a means of defense, since I cared a great deal about her.

At this point in our relationship, I was under a constant emotional attack of being completely ignored/treated as if I was not important while she would validate/show affection to other men in my presence. I was competing for her, making myself see and feel that I was the "better man." So I acted that way.

In addition, I did find myself sympathizing with her. Probably being much more tolerant of her behavior then I should have been.

I do not know if this captures the meaning of your comment.

HPD-Victim wrote:I've never been able to predict her behavior with any certainty

Agreed. The only thing I was starting to see/predict is when other men were present and had that sick feeling that some attention seeking behavior was about to unfold. This came much later in the relationship. The rest, no, I could not predict any of it.

mark1958 wrote:This is a very intriguing comment xdude. One of the things I found myself doing, was trying to figure out how to "recapture" her attention. To "redirect" her attention/affection back in my direction. In a sense I was being her. How do I 'manipulate" this situation/person to my favor. This was not a deliberate focus of mine. It seemed I was doing this as a means of defense, since I cared a great deal about her.

At this point in our relationship, I was under a constant emotional attack of being completely ignored/treated as if I was not important while she would validate/show affection to other men in my presence. I was competing for her, making myself see and feel that I was the "better man." So I acted that way.

In addition, I did find myself sympathizing with her. Probably being much more tolerant of her behavior then I should have been.

I do not know if this captures the meaning of your comment.

Yes, exactly.

I think it might be true to say that just as it is easier to destroy than it is to create, it can be easier to get dragged into an emotional/dramatic whirlwind (or tailspin) than it is to remain rational. Problem is the emotional/dramatic realm was one that she is good at, her norm. For me, not so much

The woman I know has done a few things in the last week or so to poke a stick in my eye (she doesn't like me withdrawing).

It occurred to me earlier that she may park her car outside my place and go to a nearby restaurant, within my view, with some guy just to "stick it to me".
[Without going into details she's already done something similar.]

The bottom line is that although I know this kind of stuff will probably occur I can't predict exactly what or when.

It's also possible she'll text/call for some seemingly innocent (non-personal) reason and "accidentally" drop stuff intended to hurt.

To most people, who don't understand, many things a HPD does can appear innocent. I (and I hope those reading this) know better.

PS: Later this week, coincidentally on HPD woman's birthday, I'm meeting with a (female) friend to discuss much of this. I told this friend that if I see HPD's woman's car (she could be out for her birthday) I'd like to go elsewhere. This friend said "but if she sees us together we could make her jealous!".

mark1958 wrote:At this point in our relationship, I was under a constant emotional attack of being completely ignored/treated as if I was not important while she would validate/show affection to other men in my presence. I was competing for her, making myself see and feel that I was the "better man." So I acted that way.

In addition, I did find myself sympathizing with her. Probably being much more tolerant of her behavior then I should have been.

What you described can be defined, perhaps, as a repeated triangulation of you with other men?

I found myself (not so often, luckily, but the last triangulation was devastating for me, she replaced me with her current bf in front of my eyes) in these kind of situations - especially when she was drinking; I let her behave in those ways because I perceived these behaviours as innocent - yet intriguing - games (I'm open minded, anyway: I like that other men find my girl attractive)...now I recognize they were part of the disorder.

As a side note, probably more jealous partners wouldn't allow such games (boundary enforcing); yet, ironically they would likely trigger fears of engulfement in our HPDs.

Every possibility turns out to be wrong in the end...