Possible HPD ex doesn't elaborate on emotional topics

Hello. A few years ago I had a girlfriend (who works at the same large company but now in a different department) whom I suspected of having HPD and/or ADHD. To make a long story short, she broke up with me to be with a roommate of hers who was moving out of state (I guess his leaving caused her to feel she missed and loved him instead of me) and they carried on a long distance relationship. I never really got over it, because I truly believed I was the better man and she downgraded, but I learned to get through each day. It was especially difficult when we worked in the same vicinity and seemed she still tried to get my attention. Eventually we both were transferred to other departments and rarely, rarely have crossed paths since. However, I never deleted her from my Instant Message contact list (I never delete anyone, but it felt especially harsh to delete her). In fact, I seldom use the Instant Message application at work unless someone IMs me.

A few months ago when someone IM'd me, I noticed that she had been "offline" for 30 plus days (it gives status like that). I then felt pretty worried, actually. Because I knew she was a little precarious mentally due to trauma she'd experienced in her past (including abandonment and abuse issues). Plus she also has a hereditary neurological condition that causes small brain hemorages that cause migraines and possibly in the future seizures. So I wondered if a) the brain condition had gotten more severe such that she was disabled or b) did something emotionally traumatic happen with her boyfriend or c) was there a problem with one of her children which caused her to take a leave?

Knowing what I did know about her, I just felt that something might be wrong. Each day I started checking my IM list to see if maybe she'd return. Then I even started checking Facebook every few days to see if I could garner some clues to know her status. But it appeared her Facebook had no activity for some time. I felt at a loss, because I was no longer someone in her life.

Eventually, after 57 days, her profile picture changed on her Facebook to a quote that indicated she must have been through something difficult. In fact the quote was eerie because I wondered how she could put up that quote and not think of me also. Regardless, there was a sign of life. This was toward the end of June.

I can't remember the exact timeframe, but maybe a couple weeks later I just felt strongly compelled to write her explaining that I noticed she had been missing from work via the IM contact list and I had become concerned and started looking at her Facebook to see if I could figure out if she was all right. And how eventually I saw the quote she posted and how it made me wonder if something poignant had happened in her life...and could she see how the quote might be something that applies to me as well?

Well, I really didn't expect a reply from her because every time I had ever felt compelled to write her before since the break up and our going to different departments she never replied. So I was very surprised when a few days later she IM'd me saying she was sorry that she ever hurt me and meant it with all her heart. I was so shocked to get her IM that I didn't reply because I didn't know what to say right away. That evening I emailed her saying I believed her that she was sorry, and I didn't reply to her IM because a) I was caught off guard, b) I wasn't sure if that is all she wanted to tell me and no further discussion, or c) did she want to engage in some dialog.

To my surprise again, she replied back telling me that the reason she had been missing from work is that she had a mental breakdown such that she couldn't remember how to do anything. She said it was due to various stressors in her life, including work stress and things she didn't want to relive. Which caused me to wonder if maybe she and the boyfriend had broken up and if he had done something abusive. In fact I looked at his Facebook then and saw that a picture he once had of them together was no longer there.

Well, after some thought I replied back to her thanking her for telling me what happened though it is hard to not know more specifics because I still care about her, but I'm hearing that she doesn't want to relive it. I said I wish I could have been someone she trusted to be there for her, but I realize she has literally hundreds of friends and family who probably were, so she may not see much value for me, though I believe that I still have a lot of good to offer. I said there isn't much of anything I wouldn't do for her to help make her life go easier as long as it is in her best interest, though if she still has a boyfriend that might not work out so well, but she can let me know. Meanwhile, take care of herself.

Well, I got no reply after that. But, even though she was not one who could be specific about her apologies, I eventually did write her again to apologize for a couple things I felt wrong about in our past explaining what was behind my actions (pain) and how I thought it might have hurt her (empathy). It just seemed the time to do that. Still no response from her.

I've always been one to elaborate, but she keeps things pretty simple.

Well a couple more weeks went by and then it popped into my head one night, what if she somehow didn't get or notice the email I sent about her having had a breakdown? I wouldn't want her to think I had just ignored her after she disclosed something that personal to me. So I wrote her again and asked her, can she at least let me know she got my email in response to hers because I need to know she knows I didn't ignore her (though ironically it seems she often ignores me when I disclose something personal).

To my surprise she responded the next morning saying she has gotten all my emails and that the coming weekend she is moving so she is closer to work and to where her son's dad lives and that she just found out her cousin is having twins.

So...this I find strange because a) I wonder if this means she did break up with the boyfriend (he didn't want her to move) b) she said nothing in response to my more "emotional" writing...yet, c) she did share some things with me in a pleasant way.

I replied back that I was glad she was moving because this ought to be a lot easier on her (she won't have to drive all over the place in horrible traffic) and if by chance she needs help moving I'm happy to help though I'm sure she's already got it all arranged. And, as it happens, I have a new hobby and felt inspired to make her something that would look good in her new place, so I hope when I'm done with it she'll let me give it to her someway so she can decide if she'd like to have it or not. I tried to respond a little more in proportion to her output.

So, I guess my point to writing all this is...if she does have HPD, it is the more vivacious and appeasing subtype. I think she does crave attention at times and has a big "fan club" though I don't believe she is the cheating type as many HPD are...her fan club consists of the acquisition of more friends than anyone could possibly imagine. She does not express emotions very well or respond to others' emotions that well either (or maybe it is just mine). She has awareness that people hurt and she feels awful about that, but may not be able to put into words a demonstration that she empathizes.

I guess what I find puzzling is, how is it that she can be so overwhelmed by emotions such that she had a mental breakdown, but so unable to hold a dialog with me that has a little more emotional depth? I try to keep my emails to her brief (not long as this post) so things are more simple for her to process, but she often does not give much feedback. Even to tell me, does she still or does she no longer have the boyfriend? Or to reply about my apology to her so we know we have a better understanding now. I wonder why that is so difficult for her to engage in.

Hey Invisibleman216,

Just based on my limited personal experience and the criteria in the DSM IV a few traits stand out as relevant to your question:

Shifting emotions: The expression of emotions of patients with HPD tends to be shallow and to shift rapidly.

Speech style: The speech style of patients with HPD lacks detail. Individuals with HPD tend to generalize, and when these individuals speak, they aim to please and impress.

Dramatic behaviors: Patients with HPD display self-dramatization and exaggerate their emotions.

I don't know if my ex really knew what she felt either. It's hard to know what one really feels when one's emotions are dramatized, when it's more about trying to impress others (i.e., leave an impression on others) than it is about what is actually going on in the situation or with her.

A 'mental breakdown' certainly sounds like a dramatic event, but as to what really happened, maybe she doesn't want to go into detail because the real reasons she has been out of contact was not so dramatic? Another way to look at it is that when one is overly dramatic, if the real situation behind it isn't so dramatic, it makes sense that poking and prodding for more depth is to be avoided. Another reason to avoid depth is the 'details' may come out, and if the person with HPD knows there are details that don't add up, going into that detail would be avoided.

Remember if she has HPD her primary goal is to obtain attention. Conversation is a means to that end, but it doesn't necessarily mean she is interested in the conversation itself, the details, or your part of that conversation.

This going to sound very harsh.

It is this paradox that brings to mind an old Cuban fable about a pair of twins, Alejandro and Santiago, each of whom suffered from respective cases of extreme pessimism and optimism. Their mother, Señora Garcia, was very concerned that the boys would be unable to function in the world with such extreme outlooks. So she took them to a psychoanalyst who comforted her saying that they were just going through a stage and they would grow out of it within a year. Well, a year came and went, and Alejandro was as pessimistic and Santiago was as optimistic as ever. She finally decided to take them to a therapist who practiced radical behavioral therapy. The therapist informed her that by placing each of the children into a room filled with powerful controlling stimuli, she could guarantee that the boys would abandon their extreme outlooks. Señora Garcia with some trepidation agreed to go through with the procedure. So the therapist placed Alejandro, the pessimist, into a room filled with beautiful toys, of every color, size, and shape. Everything a child would love to have. She then placed Santiago, the optimist, into a room filled with horse manure, a room so vile that any child would find it horrible.

After several hours, Señora Garcia and the therapist went to check on the boys. When they opened the door to the toy room, there was Alejandro, the pessimist, sitting in the middle of the room and sobbing uncontrollably. Señora Garcia asked “Mi cielo, what is the problem?” And the boy looked up at her and the therapist, and cried “With all these beautiful toys here, someone is bound to come and take them all away from me!” The therapist shook her head and concluded that there was no hope for poor Alejandro.

They next went to visit Santiago, the optimist. When they arrived, they could not believe their eyes. Santiago was running through the room, laughing, leaping through the air, and landing headfirst into piles and piles of horse crap! “Dios Mio!,” Señora Garcia exclaimed. “What are you doing, Santiago?” Santiago, shaking his head and laughing looked up at his mother and gleefully announced “Well, Mama, with all this horse poopy, I figure there has to be a pony in here somewhere!”

Charles Dickens - A Tale of Two Cities

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3592623/

There is no pony only sh*t.

If your "ex" really has HPD (or another PD) the chances of having a successful relationship with her are very low. It's called a Personality Disorder for a reason. People with PD's aren't "normal" so trying to treat her like she is is only going to lead to frustration/pain on your part.

Invisibleman216 wrote:Well a couple more weeks went by and then it popped into my head one night, what if she somehow didn't get or notice the email I sent about her having had a breakdown? I wouldn't want her to think I had just ignored her after she disclosed something that personal to me.

I used to think like that too. The fact is, if the email didn't bounce back to you, she got it. It's your subconscious looking for a reason for you to write to her again. And when you do write her and she tells you she got your last email/text, you feel like you've been duped. I actually think it's part of their game.

As HPD-Victim said, she has a PD. Any relationship with her will be a struggle and you will end up a shell of a man. I know what you're going through, but you have to be strong and move on.

xdude wrote:Hey Invisibleman216,

Just based on my limited personal experience and the criteria in the DSM IV a few traits stand out as relevant to your question:

Shifting emotions: The expression of emotions of patients with HPD tends to be shallow and to shift rapidly.

Speech style: The speech style of patients with HPD lacks detail. Individuals with HPD tend to generalize, and when these individuals speak, they aim to please and impress.

Dramatic behaviors: Patients with HPD display self-dramatization and exaggerate their emotions.

I don't know if my ex really knew what she felt either. It's hard to know what one really feels when one's emotions are dramatized, when it's more about trying to impress others (i.e., leave an impression on others) than it is about what is actually going on in the situation or with her.

A 'mental breakdown' certainly sounds like a dramatic event, but as to what really happened, maybe she doesn't want to go into detail because the real reasons she has been out of contact was not so dramatic? Another way to look at it is that when one is overly dramatic, if the real situation behind it isn't so dramatic, it makes sense that poking and prodding for more depth is to be avoided. Another reason to avoid depth is the 'details' may come out, and if the person with HPD knows there are details that don't add up, going into that detail would be avoided.

Remember if she has HPD her primary goal is to obtain attention. Conversation is a means to that end, but it doesn't necessarily mean she is interested in the conversation itself, the details, or your part of that conversation.

Thank you xdude -- that perfectly helps straighten it out in my mind. I often consider these things regarding her, but since I cannot know with absolute certainty that she has HPD, to hear another person with some exposure to the disorder point some of these things out is a good "sanity check".

It's normal to react more strongly to someone whose expressions are more dramatic. We naturally assume that a higher level of outward expression implies that the person is going through something they feel more strongly about than day to day experiences.

Whether or not people with HPD feel their feelings more strongly; or have learned that dramatic expression equates with attention; or even confuse their own feelings with the dramatic impressions they are trying to invoke in others; or some combination, I don't know. I do know though that when someone is bouncing from one dramatic moment to the next, it's difficult for them and others to know what they really feel about anything. Asking for more detail is bound to fail when someone's emotions are jumping all over the place, if they even know what they feel.