new non *trigger* intro (bpd?)

****moved to soff as it has to do with another person's potential disorder***


hi,
I'm a Non new to the forum. I'm afraid to write my situation for some reason. I have a friend I highly suspect has BPD that I've been trying to help. He's in online forums a lot and I fear he would read this someday and see himself- I know crazy. But I never heard of BPD. Until a series of behavior patterns took place with my friend. We were in a situation where we fell in love- but actually friend zoned each other for various reasons. But the focus is that I started to go online and literally google the behaviors he was displaying. Because they were baffling me to the core. And now- after 2 years- there is no doubt in my mind he exhibits nearly all of the BPD common traits- consistently and sometimes- extremely.

When I've gone on other forums- more relationship-based ones, and made this suggestion to try to make some sense of it- I got an overwhelming, "You are not a doctor! That is a big diagnosis to put on someone! Don't you say anything to them!" and all of this. Meanwhile, it made me feel oppressed. Suppressed. isolated. Hopeless. If i can't SAY anything- how the hell will my friend get help? (And secondarily--- and sadly ---- how will our friendship ever survive this? I love this man. He is a good man. And I feel like I am the only person that has SEEN what his happening with him- truly happening. And I think he knows this too.) He has two failed marriages. Like the last one his wife left so disgusted with him- she could no longer look at his face he told me. I couldn't understand this. But now- I am starting to understand.

So- we got into a fight and he called me delusional- which triggered me to say, "You are. You should be checked for BPD." I sort of regretted blurting that (cuz at that emotional moment- I lterally thought we would never speak again- which is essentially true so far. And it was my 'last chance" to try to help him.) But it was also cathartic for me becasue I have been wanting to share my suspicions with him. (And boy- did I.) ugggh

I have a sense that he is not in complete denial- but is scared to death to be "found out." He goes to ENORMOUS lengths to wear a mask to hide all of this truth. I wish I could go into details about this- but for now- I won't. But now- I feel like since I have stopped pretending there is a problem and have literally "faced" it- he is not happy about that. ( I don't blame him.) And any emotion that I show that is not simply flat or catatonic- he seems to get enraged. And he uses sort of mental torture techniques to hurt me now. Sometimes it's unbearable.

He definitely is splitting with me- constantly. I am DRAINED from it. I am exhausted from it. If he realized the lengths I've gone worrying about him- and what I would do to help him--- ugggh. He's so stubborn.

Do I walk away?
Do I keep trying?
I feel pain, helplessness, hopelessness, anger, sadness, empathy. I feel it all.

Thanks for listening.

Lila

it's good that you're helping your friend. you shouldnt worry if he reads this by any chance. this is anonymous, and you havent used his name.

about whether you should help him, i'd warn you. most pds are transferrable and have side effects on one who try to help them. so have a support system for yourself first. maybe on this forum or on other friends. keep some support for yourself that doesnt include him, either some sport or painting or anything, a pet, anything that keeps your focus away from him and bpd for some time of the week. it is draining to help someone with any challenge, so you need to recharge yourself emotionally regularly.

now how can you help him. most bpds see through lies and make lengthy assumptions. dont lie to him, be honest with him. if he has a bad body odour, politely tell him, if you think he's acting like a snob, tell him, but be polite. they need tough love with compassion.

if he's on a similar forum for bpd then that should help him well. but i'd again repeat, look after yourself first, the pd creeps onto the other person. i mean your friend didnt get it from anywhere.

good luck and you can conveniently post your challenge here or pm me.

thank you. that's so helpful. And I will PM you. I appreciate that.

My apologies in advance for having posted this thread in the wrong sub-forum. I knew I was going to do something wrong. Thank you for not deleting it and it's already helping me. Lila

P.S. @Jaus Tail , I sent a PM but I don't see it in my sent messages. If it got deleted, I think I will cry. I had netted out my situation -so very cathartic too.

@lila, i didnt get any message.

warning may trigger..

@archer, i dont like the adjective lovely. Whom can i report this offence to? since your the mod, i'll have to speak with the higer authorities. lovely is such a kiddo adjective. how about warrior..like soldier adjective or perhaps lean, and 5'11, or rectangular glasses

thanks so much! I will try to put some things into context. Essentially- at this moment- I'm trying to salvage the friendship if that is even possible. But definitely in the egg shell mode as ANYthing I do or say creates an emotional reaction in a negative way. Being compassionate seems to trigger the same thing as being firm. So I'm in a corner and ready to just give up.

While its nice that you're concerned about your friend, you should really be careful. most bpds are difficult. you'll find lots of warnings on the internet.

dont invest yourself much. when you post about your friend's challenge, write about your life as well, what you do in your free time maybe in another thread, or if you think you are developing any other challenge of bpd or another pd kind, then write about that. Write about yourself, your likes and dislikes as this will occupy your mind with you and not him. Your primary objective is to look after yourself.

most bpds have a topdog perception of themselves. they dont like asking for help and they dont like being told that i helped you. i dont like taking favours and owing to people. but with rational thoughts and a manual i have realized that it's ok to ask for help.

they dont like to stay in debt and will go to any extent to try to neutralize the favour.

give him time and space, like you'd give to any other individual.

again it wont be easy for you, try to recharge yourself regularly by going on walks, or music or reading or anything that doesnt involve him or bpd. and dont yell at him. at the core of most bpds is an abandoned child and when the child gets unleashed/hurt, it's like constant burning of the entire body. that's the extent of pain they feel. its like suffering.

take care

jaus tail wrote:@lila, i didnt get any message.

warning may trigger..

@archer, i dont like the adjective lovely. Whom can i report this offence to? since your the mod, i'll have to speak with the higer authorities. lovely is such a kiddo adjective. how about warrior..like soldier adjective or perhaps lean, and 5'11, or rectangular glasses

wow! I poured my heart out and gave you the dirty details of what was happening and the message evaporates lol. Sometimes I think a higher power has a say in this stuff. Perhaps I'm not ready for all of that yet.

-- Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:05 pm --

jaus tail wrote:While its nice that you're concerned about your friend, you should really be careful. most bpds are difficult. you'll find lots of warnings on the internet.

dont invest yourself much. when you post about your friend's challenge, write about your life as well, what you do in your free time maybe in another thread, or if you think you are developing any other challenge of bpd or another pd kind, then write about that. Write about yourself, your likes and dislikes as this will occupy your mind with you and not him. Your primary objective is to look after yourself.

most bpds have a topdog perception of themselves. they dont like asking for help and they dont like being told that i helped you. i dont like taking favours and owing to people. but with rational thoughts and a manual i have realized that it's ok to ask for help.

they dont like to stay in debt and will go to any extent to try to neutralize the favour.

give him time and space, like you'd give to any other individual.

again it wont be easy for you, try to recharge yourself regularly by going on walks, or music or reading or anything that doesnt involve him or bpd. and dont yell at him. at the core of most bpds is an abandoned child and when the child gets unleashed/hurt, it's like constant burning of the entire body. that's the extent of pain they feel. its like suffering.

take care

Thank you. I will take this to heart. I have quite literally showed ENORMOUS compassion to his this week. Even sharing a very sensitive story about my own trials with eating disorders- in order to show him that I am gentle and on his team. It calmed him- but the torture tactics he's been unleashing on me continued. So yeah- I am trying to walk away. I asked calmly let's maintain a friendship- but for some reason- he has this anger built up at me. I think because he suffered loving me when we couldn't make it work. He puts all that blame on me instead of the situation / both of us. If anything- I was the one always holding out my hand. I just want the madness to end. And I will start focusing on myself more- thank you again SO much.

-- Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:10 pm --

littlearcher wrote:

Lila78 wrote:****moved to soff as it has to do with another person's potential disorder***


hi,
I'm a Non new to the forum. I'm afraid to write my situation for some reason. I have a friend I highly suspect has BPD that I've been trying to help. He's in online forums a lot and I fear he would read this someday and see himself- I know crazy. But I never heard of BPD. Until a series of behavior patterns took place with my friend. We were in a situation where we fell in love- but actually friend zoned each other for various reasons. But the focus is that I started to go online and literally google the behaviors he was displaying. Because they were baffling me to the core. And now- after 2 years- there is no doubt in my mind he exhibits nearly all of the BPD common traits- consistently and sometimes- extremely.

welcome (again) to the forum. feel free to divulge as little or as much as you want about your situation. you are posting anonymously so, while it is a valid concern that your friend might read your post, if you can generalize, it's unlikely that he'd know you're speaking of him.

When I've gone on other forums- more relationship-based ones, and made this suggestion to try to make some sense of it- I got an overwhelming, "You are not a doctor! That is a big diagnosis to put on someone! Don't you say anything to them!" and all of this. Meanwhile, it made me feel oppressed. Suppressed. isolated. Hopeless. If i can't SAY anything- how the hell will my friend get help?

i can certainly empathize with you about worrying for your friend. it can be disheartening to know that someone you care about is suffering. that said, i don't know if you will like what i have to say next. i am in no way trying to invalidate your care or concern for your friend or that you've observed certain patterns in his behaviour, but bpd is a serious dianosis. there is a lot of stigma around it. and diagnoses are for medical professionals not lay people and certainly not lay people with personal investments that compromise their subjectivity. it's one thing to learn about bpd for you....it's entirely another thing to bring it up with him.

in most people, having someone they care about bring up a highly stigmatized mental illness would make them feel defensive. if he does in fact have bpd, it might alienate him even more. he might feel attacked or like he's losing someone he's close to. he may even feel betrayed, as if you are using things he's told you in confidence against him.

at the end of the day, you are completely entitled to express concern and perhaps bring up things you've noticed him struggling with. however, i don't think informing him of your unprofessional diagnosis would be fair to him.

ultimately his healing is his journey and it's his choice what he wants to, and doesn't want to, face.

(And secondarily--- and sadly ---- how will our friendship ever survive this? I love this man. He is a good man. And I feel like I am the only person that has SEEN what his happening with him- truly happening. And I think he knows this too.) He has two failed marriages. Like the last one his wife left so disgusted with him- she could no longer look at his face he told me. I couldn't understand this. But now- I am starting to understand.

if your desire is to preserve the friendship, there are a few things you can try and do. the first thing is to take care of yourself. the second is to set and maintain boundaries. the third is to learn and practice the skill of emotional validation. i'll provide a link here in case you want more information:

http://www.validatingparenting.com/?page_id=465

So- we got into a fight and he called me delusional- which triggered me to say, "You are. You should be checked for BPD." I sort of regretted blurting that (cuz at that emotional moment- I lterally thought we would never speak again- which is essentially true so far. And it was my 'last chance" to try to help him.) But it was also cathartic for me becasue I have been wanting to share my suspicions with him. (And boy- did I.) ugggh

it sounds like you feel badly about this. and i don't mean to make you feel any worse, but addressing something big like this with someone who isn't doing well in the middle of a fight could be extremely hurtful and cause damage to the relationship (which you've expressed a desire to preserve).

I have a sense that he is not in complete denial- but is scared to death to be "found out." He goes to ENORMOUS lengths to wear a mask to hide all of this truth. I wish I could go into details about this- but for now- I won't. But now- I feel like since I have stopped pretending there is a problem and have literally "faced" it- he is not happy about that. ( I don't blame him.) And any emotion that I show that is not simply flat or catatonic- he seems to get enraged. And he uses sort of mental torture techniques to hurt me now. Sometimes it's unbearable.

it certainly doesn't sound like the friendship is in a healthy place at the moment.

He definitely is splitting with me- constantly. I am DRAINED from it. I am exhausted from it. If he realized the lengths I've gone worrying about him- and what I would do to help him--- ugggh. He's so stubborn.

Do I walk away?
Do I keep trying?
I feel pain, helplessness, hopelessness, anger, sadness, empathy. I feel it all.

Thanks for listening.

Lila

i think it is important that you make this decision for yourself (just as he needs to make his own decisions for himself). in order to do, it might help to try and figure out what your expectations are of this relationship and if they are realistic.

it sounds like right now it is very overwhelming for you and i wonder why you are intent on holding on to it, right now, when it might do better in the long run if you were to give it a little space.

what do you think?

I hear everything you are saying and taking it to heart. Thank you. I have the link open and will read it. I think I do have to let this friendship "go" if you will. I would simply love to end it on civil terms at least. I feel like we won't even get that opportunity. But I think space- is great advice. I will focus on space. thank you

littlearcher wrote:i understand the desire to end the relationship on civil terms, but the likelihood of that happening when you are fighting seems like it would be small.

it might be best to ask to step away while things are heated and you are fighting.

you expressed to jaus tail that you didn't know why he was upset and said it was about the romantic relationship not working out, but couldn't it be that you blurted out that you thought he had bpd in a fight?

and if you agree that that wasn't the best way to breech the topic, maybe you could apologize for that when you let him know you want to step away?

The mental abuse essentially that he has been torturing me with started weeks before the "blurt." The blurt came when he had pushed my button SO BAD and I asked him to STOP and he lied saying I was delusional- that he wasn't doing anything "wrong" and that's when I said it. He figuratively speaking- had me pinned down to the ground. A part of me regrets it (obviously from my OP) and even more so after your comments. But a part of me feels it was a relief for me to say it. He has created this need to hate me when I have done nothing but reach out- so it's realy scary to me actually. I think he is in some sort of manic state at the moment. I seriously just wish he would calm down and if we have to end our friendship fine- I just would like it where we are on the same page. But just talking all this out is upsetting me uggh. Now I understand how sensitive these things are. Thanks again.

littlearcher wrote:

Lila78 wrote:

littlearcher wrote:i understand the desire to end the relationship on civil terms, but the likelihood of that happening when you are fighting seems like it would be small.

it might be best to ask to step away while things are heated and you are fighting.

you expressed to jaus tail that you didn't know why he was upset and said it was about the romantic relationship not working out, but couldn't it be that you blurted out that you thought he had bpd in a fight?

and if you agree that that wasn't the best way to breech the topic, maybe you could apologize for that when you let him know you want to step away?

The mental abuse essentially that he has been torturing me with started weeks before the "blurt." The blurt came when he had pushed my button SO BAD and I asked him to STOP and he lied saying I was delusional- that he wasn't doing anything "wrong" and that's when I said it. He figuratively speaking- had me pinned down to the ground. A part of me regrets it (obviously from my OP) and even more so after your comments. But a part of me feels it was a relief for me to say it. He has created this need to hate me when I have done nothing but reach out- so it's realy scary to me actually. I think he is in some sort of manic state at the moment. I seriously just wish he would calm down and if we have to end our friendship fine- I just would like it where we are on the same page. But just talking all this out is upsetting me uggh. Now I understand how sensitive these things are. Thanks again.

if he does have bpd, you might want to do some reading about it and it might help you frame some of his interactions with you differently. here's a helpful link:
http://www.borderlinepersonalitydisorde ... bpd-brief/

i think it's important that you set boundaries and keep yourself out of situations that you feel are abusive. i also think it might help with your feelings of fear to consider that his lashing out is more than likely (if he does actually have bpd) to do with him having overwhelming emotions that he doesn't have the skills to handle and it spilling out, unfortunately on you.

it sounds like when you are feeling emotionally triggered and overwhelmed you might say things that you wouldn't normally say but that also may feel good as just an instinctive lashing out of emotion. if that's the case, then maybe you can see where he was coming from as well?

if you feel you are being abused, by all means, set some healthy limits and boundaries. but, it's unlikely that you are going to be on the same page if you view him as abusive and are feeling compelled to be reactive because of the tension in your interaction with one another.

can you maybe let go of that expectation for the time being as it's probably not going to unfold the way you'd want it to?

i'm unclear why you are speaking of mania, do you feel that he might have challenges with bipolar disorder as well? i think when you are feeling he is torturing you and emotionally abusing you, it's unlikely to lead to a calm state between the two of you as your heightened emotions will likely end with things escalating when you speak.

i'm sorry if this is becoming distressing for you. i think it's definitely important that you take care of yourself and it sounds like this is impacting you on many levels. have you considered possibly consulting with a counselor? it might be good for you to speak to someone objective that could help you with processing some of these emotions.

I know this will sound ludicrous, but we are both in an online general interest forum. We joined at the same time 2 years ago. This entire time he denies it's him out there. IT'S HIM. Every interaction we have IRL triggers a response in his online alter ego. Most of this started about 6 months ago when I got tired of learning more about his feelings in his alter ego online than IRL and confronted the issue. I confronted it again recently. So this has caused the stress. Yet- you would think he would close his account or simply stop writing stuff out there knowing I'm out there too and that I'm reading it. No. He writes and writes and writes. And now- a girl is flirting with him BIG TIME and he knows this bothered me. I asked him to stop several times and it only triggers the behavior more. So it's like he is torturing me. (Becasue he would type is undying love for me.) And after denying it's him- he will put something online to mess with my head- for example- I flew to Denver for a weekend and then he put something about Denver. He will put these red herrings to taunt me. He will NEVER meet this girl IRL for fear of exposing his true self since all of his feelings are put out there. But she relentlessly pursues because she saw it got a rise out of me and she is seemingly sadistic and caught up in this web of crazy behavior. We had agreed we would not show or talk about if we dated others as the feelings are still very intense for each other. It is not easy at all. I literally sent him a message today saying nicely- that I need closure. Our friendship is meaningful to me and I care about him and want to remain friends. If he doesn't want to- I will accept that. But can he at least let me know. He doesn't respond at all- but responds with the torture of interacting with this online seductress. It's a like a very bad scary movie I am in that I do not know how to get out of. help! I literally had nightmares last night and have bags under my eyes. I know I need to walk away. But I feel like he is in a massive emotional downward spiral that is making him act like this. I actually would rather put closure and say, "We are done." Becasue it actually scares me to think his feelings are SO intense that he obsseses and what not. Perhaps if we put closure - HE can truly move on and do whatever he wants. And unfortunately- all that stuff is on public internet. I told him to interact privately with this girl- and he won't. He wants to torture me.