Is This Common? (possible HPD)

[ PWHPD: POSSIBLE TRIGGERS. Moved this thread to Significant Others Family and Friends Forum under General Topics, leaving an original shadow thread in Relationships. mod-orion]

I have been reading this forum for almost a month now, and it has been of the utmost help in dealing with the aftermath of my short time with an HPD. It is uncanny the similarities I see between the relationships written of herein and my own with this woman.

The first two months were absolute heaven with her, and while my friends and I did notice her wandering eyes, all was well. About six weeks ago she began to flirt and text unabashedly in front of me. She would apologize, explain that I was showing her how she was too flirtatious, and promise not to do it again before doing it yet again within days. I counted eight specific instances of inappropriate behavior with men in front of me in a short period of time. The worst was a drunken episode at a country club swimming pool in which she practically made out with a man right in front of me and then spent the next 12 hours telling me she did nothing wrong. I left her, and before I could get on the highway she was calling and begging me to come back. When I returned, she explained that she was so drunk she blacked out and could not remember what happened. After begging me to stay, telling me that I was the love of her life, and saying that she wanted to marry me, she was texting a former lover just hours later.

We broke up and got back together twice, and after the last breakup I learned that she had gotten back on a dating website the day after she broke up with me. She returned last week, and I thought we had finally fixed things. She told me the usual: I was the best lover she ever had, the last gentleman left on earth, I treat her like a queen, she can't live without me, etc. She went out of state to attend a concert with a friend, and from minute one something felt amiss. Just one week ago she slept until almost 11, went drinking at a golf club for lunch, and was distant all day. At on point I texted and asked what she was up to, and she indicated that she was going to meet an old friend for a drink (she had already told me he used to be a lover). I called her immediately, and she was already at the bar with him. I asked her to step away from the table so I could speak with her, and she began SCREAMING at me over the phone (I am jealous, I ruined her evening, etc.). This went on for a minute before I could talk her down, and we resolved that she would call me later.

Before we spoke again she texted me multiple times talking about us getting married in 2014. She told me she loves me, she wants to marry me, and discussed details of our wedding. We spoke about an hour later. As we were talking, I mentioned to her that I was concerned that I was a bit more invested in the relationship than she was. Nuclear explosion! She went from calm and loving to screaming instantly, calling me names and cursing at me. At one point she called her teenage children into the room, saying, "Kids, I want you to hear this." She then proceeded to yell at me in front of her children. I could not calm her down, and at one point I hung up the phone. That was the last contact I had with her.

My question is this: I suspect the screaming in front of an audience to be part devaluation/part convincing her people that I am the bad guy. Is it common for an HPD to solicit an audience when lashing out?

I thank all of you for sharing your stories: they have been a big help to me in dealing with my grief.

Hello Diogenes and welcome
Of course we don't know if you g/f is HPD, but what you wrote does have a ring of truth with some of the behaviors I have thought were expressed by probable pwHPD:

The first two months were absolute heaven with her, and while my friends and I did notice her wandering eyes, all was well.

When you get multiple confirmations from others that something is up, then something's up. Red flag 1.

About six weeks ago she began to flirt and text unabashedly in front of me. She would apologize, explain that I was showing her how she was too flirtatious, and promise not to do it again before doing it yet again within days. I counted eight specific instances of inappropriate behavior with men in front of me in a short period of time.

"You're right, I'm wrong, I'm sorry," but she can't or won't stop. Red flag 2.

The worst was a drunken episode at a country club swimming pool in which she practically made out with a man right in front of me and then spent the next 12 hours telling me she did nothing wrong.

Gets caught yet again, but this time, at a deeper level, she denies anything is wrong. Red flag 3.

I left her, and before I could get on the highway she was calling and begging me to come back. When I returned, she explained that she was so drunk she blacked out and could not remember what happened.

Favorite substance abuse denial/rationalization: "I can't remember, it was the drug or the booze, not me." But if you are like me, if you have been drunk before, you can still remember much of it the next day. Red flag 4.

After begging me to stay, telling me that I was the love of her life, and saying that she wanted to marry me, she was texting a former lover just hours later.

Rapid escalation of the relationship and throwing bonds around you, including marriage. But her emotional cheating behavior hasn't changed. Red flag 5.

We broke up and got back together twice, and after the last breakup I learned that she had gotten back on a dating website the day after she broke up with me. She returned last week, and I thought we had finally fixed things. She told me the usual: I was the best lover she ever had, the last gentleman left on earth, I treat her like a queen, she can't live without me, etc.

This is a cognitive and emotional parallel to what goes on in male-female abusive relationships, namely when the men physically abuse the women, and then profusely apologize and become romantic the next day, promising that they will change and the abuse will never happen again. Red flag 6.

She went out of state to attend a concert with a friend, and from minute one something felt amiss. Just one week ago she slept until almost 11, went drinking at a golf club for lunch, and was distant all day.

That could be mild depression or even mild dissociation. Red flag 7.

At on point I texted and asked what she was up to, and she indicated that she was going to meet an old friend for a drink (she had already told me he used to be a lover). I called her immediately, and she was already at the bar with him. I asked her to step away from the table so I could speak with her, and she began SCREAMING at me over the phone (I am jealous, I ruined her evening, etc.). This went on for a minute before I could talk her down, and we resolved that she would call me later.

Cracking under the pressure of relationship intimacy, perhaps. Then the rage is quickly over, as soon as it started, as if nothing was wrong in the first place. Red flag 8.

Before we spoke again she texted me multiple times talking about us getting married in 2014. She told me she loves me, she wants to marry me, and discussed details of our wedding.

Interesting how the marriage is in the future. In my experience, HPDs make vague promises about something special, but it's always in the future, sometimes far off in the future. I think that marriage is an especially troubling concept for an HPD, since it implies monagamy and maturation. Maybe needless to say at this point, but If I were you I wouldn't get married to this woman, at least not now or anytime soon.

We spoke about an hour later. As we were talking, I mentioned to her that I was concerned that I was a bit more invested in the relationship than she was. Nuclear explosion! She went from calm and loving to screaming instantly, calling me names and cursing at me. At one point she called her teenage children into the room, saying, "Kids, I want you to hear this." She then proceeded to yell at me in front of her children. I could not calm her down, and at one point I hung up the phone. That was the last contact I had with her.

Truth is a button that is painful to some when it is pushed. Once again the flash point temper tantrum, which quickly subsides. This is also a feature of antisocial personalities.

My question is this: I suspect the screaming in front of an audience to be part devaluation/part convincing her people that I am the bad guy. Is it common for an HPD to solicit an audience when lashing out?

It is a deeper behavioral definition (beyond the general characteristics of DSM IV) that HPDs watch other people watch them, in order to get emotional information as to who they are, which would include defending their own schema. Therefore they are natural extroverted masters of finding, cultivating, and maintaining audiences. So to answer your question it seems logical that she would look to the reactions of others in order to confirm that something is wrong with you, not her, even though there is plenty of apparent evidence to the contrary.

Diogenes I think you should plan what else you will do in 2014, other than getting married to this woman in her current state. For one, perhaps explore why you are/were attracted to her. Or, take a trip to Costa Rica.

Be well. If you keep that cynicism thing at bay, I promise I won't club that scorpion in the ESE sky.
orion

Thank you for the insightful response Orion.

I miss her tremendously, and she is still on my mind constantly. I don't know that I can boil it down to any one thing that I saw in her, but I strongly suspect that my deepest attraction is our sexual connection. I have been with smarter women, prettier women, classier women, etc., but the physical side with this woman was off the charts good. Combine that with the fact that she quickly latched on to the things that are of core importance to me (religion, exercise, culture), and I fell in headfirst. I simply loved (or thought I loved) her so much that I accepted her completely, faults and all.

You are correct on the issue of alcohol; I have been drunk plenty of times, yet I remember what I do and say. She would claim to "black out" and not remember things she had done or said. Among the myriad bizarre tales she told me of her past were several instances in which she was drugged, causing her to not remember anything. I know, I know, red flag.

I have taken a position of no contact. I know that I will never reach out to her again, but in the back of my mind something tells me that she may surface again one day. Should that occur, I would want to tell her that she needs help and I would walk with her again if she got help. I doubt that would ever happen. While she is on Wellbutrin and claims to have attempted suicide previously, she adamantly maintains that nothing is wrong with her. This was PARTICULARLY the case when (the one and only time) I suggested to her that her insatiable need for attention might have deeper meaning.

Thanks again Orion. And on the cynicism side, I'm not sleeping in a jar any longer, but I AM still walking the streets looking for an honest person.....

And on the cynicism side, I'm not sleeping in a jar any longer, but I AM still walking the streets looking for an honest person.....

Well said. I think I'm truckin down the sidewalk, across the street from you...

As I bounce among the stages of grief with this, I sometimes find myself coming back to shock/disbelief, which is probably denial. I simply don't understand. I know that I must move on. I am positively headed in that direction, but I still have questions.

A person claims they have been searching for the love of their life. They find a person who they say they love like they have never loved before; the soulmate, The One, the once in a lifetime love. They then casually discard this person.

How do they reconcile this with themselves?

Diogenes575 wrote:As I bounce among the stages of grief with this, I sometimes find myself coming back to shock/disbelief, which is probably denial. I simply don't understand. I know that I must move on. I am positively headed in that direction, but I still have questions.

A person claims they have been searching for the love of their life. They find a person who they say they love like they have never loved before; the soulmate, The One, the once in a lifetime love. They then casually discard this person.

How do they reconcile this with themselves?

i'm in the exact same position myself. I can honestly say my recent breakup with an HPD was the hardest in my life because i can't comprehend her actions compared to 'regular' breakups.

I'm also starting to believe due to the (perceived) strong bond, and sexual connection we have to look this more as withdrawel from an addiction; we are addicted to them because the way they made us feel (initially).

The blackout thing due to alcohol/drugs sounds familiar as well and that's not remarkable. Even in our society it's still not really accepted by womans peers to sleep around. Blackouts are just a good excuse and usually is just one of their lies. Another strategy is to isolate suiters from their social groups to prevent getting to much information out. The whole intrige, mystery, secrecy adds to the drama they love and crave.

How HPD's reconcile, unless they have sociopath tendencies and just don't care at all, i believe the usual strategy for them to prevent any depression, is to rush into new relationships, or, if they are sexually centrered, to engage in casual sex. Personally that's a bit hard to cope with, but i just keep telling myself that those encounters don't mean anything and what we had was more special.

nom0re wrote:i'm in the exact same position myself. I can honestly say my recent breakup with an HPD was the hardest in my life because i can't comprehend her actions compared to 'regular' breakups.

Ditto. Worst pain I had ever felt in my life.... What she did to me was COMPLETELY uncalled for, and somehow she can frolic happily through the flower garden as if she's totally accepted her alternate reality where I'm a monster and deserved everything she did to demonize me with her entire family and friends (over 50 people have stonewalled me as a result of her decision to nuke the marriage).

A good friend of mine told me "The rational mind will never understand the irrational mind"....

Why NC is necessary. As obvious as that sounds in the context of this thread, some guys have shown up on this or on the HPD forum and argued for continued contact, as if they were going to find the secret keys to the minds of the probable HPD women they were involved with. But I think the point is that the keys are secret...that is, active HPDs don't want them discovered - they don't even want to discover them, themselves.

It seems that the bad guy who fascinates her is often the one who doesn't care about her or her problems - he's not interested in the keys to her mind; he's just running a high speed low drag life that also relieves her or her boredom. Although HPDs aren't simply the female version of psychopathy some once thought was the case, there definitely seems to be some that need a lot of stimulation. This past HPD poster lucidly described a possible HPD/dopamine neurotransmitter connection:

After my recent bit of crisis surrounding the rage and issues with my brother, I’ve gotten over those things and suppressed them all back in to their little boxes as suggested, but I’ve noticed I haven’t been able to bounce back to my ‘happy, enthused and relatively hopeful’ self after the fact. I’ve been stuck in somewhat of a funk since that period and since the emotional turmoil has ended I’ve been craving some of my destructive behaviours.

I’m craving crazy sex and indulgences. I’m craving shopping sprees and gifted treats to myself and others. I’m craving a night out on the town (my way) and all the goodies that go along with it. I want to gamble, I want to do something exciting, and then it hit me- dopamine! I’m craving all these things to induce dopamine production and give me my chemical pleasure.

[see "Dopamine Deficiency," histrionic-personality/topic62497.html]

Also Interesting that the role of dopamine in BPD is also now a topic of current interest.

ridingthewtfbus wrote:
Ditto. Worst pain I had ever felt in my life.... What she did to me was COMPLETELY uncalled for, and somehow she can frolic happily through the flower garden as if she's totally accepted her alternate reality where I'm a monster and deserved everything she did to demonize me with her entire family and friends (over 50 people have stonewalled me as a result of her decision to nuke the marriage).

A good friend of mine told me "The rational mind will never understand the irrational mind"....

Well. i'm a very rational person and just reading about HPD makes me process things. Her behavior might be irrational (for us) but learning more about the inner thought processes of HPD's for them it's not irrational. That's why confronting them with their behavior is pointless (also usually in therapy) because they just don't see what their doing is wrong or unethical.

This made me personally cope a bit better with the manipulative bitchy behavior, because HPD's often will see partners also as adversaries, and love as game that has to be won. At the moment you stop playing the games the partner becomes the enemy so to speak resulting in the irrational (for us) stuff they do. But those actions are general based on emotions they feel in THAT moment, and their feeling can switch very fast, so it's also good to know that in most cases they regret their actions.

Thank you all for the feedback.

noOmore, I agree with you. I am quite certain that she was already into her next "supply" when things ended between us, and I would venture to guess that jumping immediately into the next romantic/sexual situation mitigates any hurtful feelings that may arise for her. This creates for me the paradox that I sit here missing what we had, while I have probably not crossed her mind at all.

My question to you is this, noOmore: you talk about the hurtfulness of the ex moving on to the next guy and you shield yourself by thinking that what you had with her was special. To an extent I am guilty of this myself, but I am wondering if this manner of thought is actually a deterrent in our healing. If we were to consider that we were in all likelihood just "next" in her game, wouldn't that hasten our own recovery?