Sexual discussions w/ ex-gf (trigger warning)HPD

I suppose on this post I should put a trigger warning.

I feel like I'm posting quite a bit because I'm quite actively processing my experience with my ex-gf as well as trying to cope with seeing her daily at work.

Today it seems some things are coming together/clicking in my head about the sexual aspect.

One thing I was thinking about today was how she never did have sex with me...she said she didn't want that to be all I wanted her for, so I felt I had to prove to her I'd respect her and love more about her than just her physical attributes. We did kiss, but even that she became skittish about. She told me I was the best kisser ever (don't know how true that is...but I did kiss her like I truly cared for her and she was very impacted by that) and told me she can't wait till she sleeps with me...but out of wanting to honor her I would tell her, wow, that means so much to me, but really, I am ok right now just kissing you and spending time together knowing each other more, we don't have to rush it. But she would want to kiss me, then even that she'd get skittish about, like no we can't because she doesn't want me to only view her as someone to make out with. Now, even before we had our first kiss, I shared with her something about my physical self -- it naturally came up and I felt it was only right that I be honest with her because romance was blooming, though it was a little sooner than I'd have preferred because I feared rejection before we barely got started -- that I have a very small penis due basically to a birth defect...but as an adult I have gotten reconstructive surgery so it works basically normal, but it is quite small nonetheless. At that time she initiated our first kisses and told me I should never feel less than any other man. Naturally this is something I've struggled with all my life and to finally hear this from a woman impacted me very deeply. If anyone wanted to respect her body, it was me, because I needed to feel respect too.

Well, shortly after our first kisses, I had gone on a new jumbo ferris wheel in my city with my brother-in-law who was visiting. We took pictures and I shared them with her and said I really want us to go on it together too. Later that same day that I shared the pictures with her, she started a "sexting" session with me...our first. She asked me "do you like to bang women?" And while with as small a penis as I have penetration is a challenge I said "well, yes, but I would never use the term 'bang' because that makes it sound as if the woman is an object instead of someone I care about very much." She LOL'd and said "you are too much". She then said she wants to have sex with me on the ferris wheel and I can bend her over and pull her hair. I said, "I love the idea of making love on the ferris wheel, but I would never want to pull your pretty hair or hurt you." She LOL'd and then we continued on with more sexual flirting but in a nicer way...and honestly that was really nice. So, I'm not sure if she was testing me to see if maybe I would be a guy who'd be rough with her sexually or not...or if this is something she'd really be turned on by.

Now, she has shared with me that she became pregnant with her first daughter (at age 17) when her boyfriend at the time "f*cked" her when she was intoxicated at a party. She also has told me that her 2nd boyfriend physically abused her...and she ended up having her 2nd daughter with him. She was with him a few years. I don't know if there was sexual abuse there too. She also shared with me that she was raped by a different man...but she didn't tell me where on the timeline that was. With these topics I didn't want to ask too many questions, but rather leave it up to her what she was willing to share when she was ready because that can be treacherous territory if you trigger someone. I learned that already with a previous girlfriend who had such experiences. Then, she also shared with me that her ex-husband (divorced 3 years ago) wanted her to dress up, like in different wigs, and role play in sex. Then the last 2 years of their marriage they didn't sleep together at all because she said he became verbally abusive. I told her, when she and I make love, who she is is more than enough for me. (But we never did.) She had been on some dates after her divorce that she described to me, and it sounded like the men were not very respectful or classy. I told her so...and also that I didn't like it that so-called friends of hers set her up on those dates with such loser guys...that she deserves better. My guess is that I was the first man she kissed after her divorce, and even if not, I kissed her like I truly cared for her, and I can scarcely describe her reaction to me, it was very euphoric for her...like she had received spiritual enlightenment. But who knows, maybe she was this way with any guy. But it shocked me that I'd have that kind of effect on her. Then I longed for her kisses because I myself had never had much romantic affection in my life.

Anyway, fast forward to when she broke up with me in October in favor of her then roommate, now long distant boyfriend who she is now "with" though he is in another state. At the time I said, I can't compete with a guy who already lives with you and likely has a normal penis. She got upset with me saying with exasperation that I had "little man syndrome" because of my penis and upset with me for thinking that is why she isn't picking me. Fast forward again to this past February when I had to go to see my surgeon in another state because I had a problem with my testicles (they had some issues too and were part of my entire reconstruction). Well, she and I had just started talking with each other again and I actually was wondering if she had broken up with the boyfriend because we seemed to be connecting closely again like before our breakup. She called me everyday while I was away getting "fixed" and we had a discussion about my penis and the sexual aspect. I told her it frustrates me so much because all I want is to be a good man to a woman, such as herself, and love her truly, yet there are so many jerk guys who have a normal penis and can f*ck a woman with ease. She told me, "Don't get all emotional on me, silly." Which was kind of comforting because she made it sound, again, to her that it wasn't a big deal. But then she went on to say that well, it is true though that bigger is better for a woman...she's just telling me what women like and there is nothing that compares to feeling the SLIGHTY GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION EDITED TO KEEP IT FAMILY FRIENDLY And all I could say is that I wish it was mine in her, but I'm glad we are talking about it candidly. Well, a day or two later she broke it to me that she still considers herself with the ex-roommate, but this is when I first learned he had moved out of state. So, I felt strung along again and told her, wow, with him being out of state, and as much as you have been in contact with me, it is hard to take it seriously the validity of your relationship with him. Maybe I even went too far because I told her this just seems too convenient that she now has a boyfriend who is out of state, and she also keeps me at arms length, and I think she has intimacy issues. Well, she blasted me telling me she and he have a great sex life. I felt very emasculated at that point...and honestly I think I still am feeling trauma from her saying that now 2 months later. But, I suppose I backed her in a corner and she knew what to hit me with. So I see my part in it.

Now in retrospect, thinking today, and having just read Orion's reply to me on my "Small encounter" post about sadistic HPD...I wonder if her comments about penis size satisfaction and the great sex she says she has with the new guy are sadistic acts toward me.

I guess I am wondering too if she doesn't actually have a true intimacy issue in regard to physical closeness but she's got smoke and mirrors up against it. Or maybe she can have sex in a more emotionally disconnected or shallow way, but to experience what I wanted with her, that became too much.

I think it was also Wineaux here who suggested that she has wrapped me up in some "daddy" issues. Her dad she has never thought well of...he was abandoning and neglectful...I don't know what else...she never wanted to talk much about him. So maybe that is a factor too in her not being able to sustain a developing intimacy with me...maybe it isn't about my small penis after all.

I don't know. I do miss her though and worry about her...I worry about me too.

Well my friend, it sounds like you have small penis syndrome alright. Do not worry. It happens to us regular-penis dudes too.
Im not sure your ex-gf is HPD, because most women are inclined to play around with men's feelings when they sense there's room for it. And boy there's plenty in you . Penis size does not matter, how you act about it does.
There's nothing wrong with dirty talking on the phone or text, she wanted you to get physical on her and you backed away and offered only romance. Women sometimes like to be thrown around playfully,but you will only learn to play this game in a safe and romantic way after you have "banged" a few ladies.
I think any woman would get a little HPD on such a sure victim. Look to yourself, young padawan

OR she could totally be HPD and is so conditioned to having men treat her and talk to her that way that she doesn't know any better. i've been guilty of doing what she does/did because i just figured that's what the person at the time i was with expected.

Not saying she is or isn't HPD, i couldn't possibly know.
Just saying that his personality style is so powerfully co-dependent that he is bound to suffer more from this type of behaviour. As all nons did at one point. As did I.

ArthurK -

From my experience, all of us people are insane to a degree

Seriously though you know all of us guys hear the message women just want a loving, caring man, and it's true, but then it's impossible to ignore the reality that we observe women being emotionally and sexually moved by jerks, dogs, players, etc. It's not just women though. Consider how many guys are sexually moved by strippers, promiscuous hot women, even prostitutes, but when it comes to their own woman, they want to be with someone who is reserved with everyone else except for them.

Actually it's not just that, it is more or less everything, we people have double standards, double or multiple rules, that we apply selectively as it suits us. Could be selecting to think of ourselves as victims/responsible as it pleases us. Could be what we think we expect in a mate versus what we react to in other people's mates. Could be we selectively demand scientific proof to prove what we don't believe, but accept opinion to back what we do believe. So many examples I won't list them all. It's basically insane, but it is a reality about who/what we are.

Yes, we've all heard women want a good, loving, caring man. It is partially true, but it's often not the full truth.

I do think though if she does have HPD, and from my personal experience, you are going to experience extremes with her. Idolization (which of course makes us feel good), to being devalued (which of course hurts), to her making off-the-wall comments that are hurtful (no idea of they are intentional), to possibly some days when she is feeling sadistic and takes pleasure in seeing you squirm (because it makes her feel empowered).

The idolization of course is what draws us in, but the problem with that for all the same reasons a NON woman is less likely to say/do extremely hurtful things, she is also less likely to idolize to an extreme. A NON woman is also more likely to be aware of her own ambivalence, and hopefully, less likely to use double standard thinking. In other words, somewhat more sane

Obviously you're struggling with a very painful sexual issue, and any of us in your shoes would struggle emotionally with it as well. How it turns out for you none of us can know, but I really wouldn't expect any lasting compassion from someone with HPD. I know there are likely days when she may be in an extreme mood and show you more compassion than any NON woman, but it's going to happen that she will mood swing and then next thing you know, the who me? what did I say? remarks will come out, or the downright sadistic remarks are going to happen too.

The problem is, unfortunately, her emotional state isn't so much about you/us as it is driven by her internal mood of the moment. Just because her expression appears to be empathy for you, well hard to accept, that it is often more about a mood she is feeling then it is about any long term concern about other people's feelings.

BPD women like to have their hair pulled in an aggressive manner, they like to be banged hard, and they like to hear about what kind of sluts they are while you are doing it. They also enjoy physical pain during the act of sex to a certain extent. They want to submit in a harsh manner to their man. I think this is related to parental abuse. That being said, one usually isn't their man for very long.
Sex is a very matter of fact thing for them.
That's just my experience.

Romance may just be a game they play with guys they are interested in. They may act coy and that they want to go slow if they are playing a game with you or really like you or both.
Then, while they are doing that with you they will offer to go down on a complete stranger.

No contact is the best method with these women.
Once you engage in crazy sex with them it messes you up in a way.

What Happened -

The popularity of the book 50 Shades of Grey suggests something many of us already knew, fantasies related to dominance/submission are common. They are just not necessarily expressed, and even less likely to be acted on, but it definitely says something about the female psyche (or at least some of our societies). Still, in and of itself harmless.

BPD women can be much more impulsive though in general, so I guess no big surprise some are more impulsive sexually.

What I think is true of BPD women in general is (like other cluster B types), on a very fundamental level love is associated with pain, so while a part of them deeply desires to be loved, at the same time being loved by someone special brings on painful feelings. The push/pull feelings can be very intense for someone with BPD, and so the person with BPD also protects themselves from being hurt, often preemptively before others can hurt them again.

Aggressive sex then, even in role play, while enjoyed could just as quickly be turned into a reason to turn off emotionally from their partner.* BPD types are often testing, looking to be hurt, so that they have a reason to emotionally disconnect and go back to the safety of being alone where nobody can hurt them. Then once there, they feel alone again and that doesn't feel good either, so back to being loving for a while until the feelings of loneliness passes until that doesn't feel good either. The cycle repeats itself over and over.

For a partner the cycling mood swings are confusing, exhausting, it seems like no matter what they do it ends up failure, and the reality is there is no way for it not to be failure. One way or another the person with BPD is going to sabotage. Sex just makes it all more complicated because sex raises in most of us very strong primal feelings that most of us can only be so intellectually neutral about.

* p.s. I've been through this myself. She says she wants to be used, treated roughly, tied up, act out, but then not much later, tears about how bad I made her feel. If I'm gentle, still can't win. It's insane, and if you have any kind of close relationship with someone like this, it really fecks with your head to get drawn into mind/life of someone whose wants are so conflicted.

Interesting and thought-provoking observations, xdude, thanks for your input.

I do think though if she does have HPD, and from my personal experience, you are going to experience extremes with her. Idolization (which of course makes us feel good), to being devalued (which of course hurts), to her making off-the-wall comments that are hurtful (no idea of they are intentional), to possibly some days when she is feeling sadistic and takes pleasure in seeing you squirm (because it makes her feel empowered).

I understand this in my head to an extent...but when the less desirable variations happen it is hard to stay grounded and not get rattled. But your words are a succinct reminder. It is very much like dealing with an alcoholic. They are just doing what an HPD person does.

Obviously you're struggling with a very painful sexual issue, and any of us in your shoes would struggle emotionally with it as well. How it turns out for you none of us can know, but I really wouldn't expect any lasting compassion from someone with HPD. I know there are likely days when she may be in an extreme mood and show you more compassion than any NON woman, but it's going to happen that she will mood swing and then next thing you know, the who me? what did I say? remarks will come out, or the downright sadistic remarks are going to happen too.

The problem is, unfortunately, her emotional state isn't so much about you/us as it is driven by her internal mood of the moment. Just because her expression appears to be empathy for you, well hard to accept, that it is often more about a mood she is feeling then it is about any long term concern about other people's feelings.

Thanks, these words of yours are very helpful. It is true, given my circumstance that I was likely quite vulnerable and when she told me words I always wanted to hear from a woman, I had high hope that I had finally found a woman that would work with me sexually and saw the most important parts about me, as I wanted to for her...proving that I saw her as a person first, not a body...so why couldn't she do that for me too? But the euphoria she initially had toward me turned to embarrassment, almost.

To address her "little man" comment and Branco's input: well, I can say that I've never been a guy, because of my circumstance, to "overcompensate" by trying to be "uber-macho". So, it seemed a bit unfair of a label to pin on me. But, I did become anxious that I'd lose her, once I found her who seemed to accept me...and then I can see how my "better man" more confident self crumbled a bit, and she could have found that quite disappointing.

BPD women like to have their hair pulled in an aggressive manner, they like to be banged hard, and they like to hear about what kind of sluts they are while you are doing it. They also enjoy physical pain during the act of sex to a certain extent. They want to submit in a harsh manner to their man. I think this is related to parental abuse. That being said, one usually isn't their man for very long.
Sex is a very matter of fact thing for them.
That's just my experience.

Romance may just be a game they play with guys they are interested in. They may act coy and that they want to go slow if they are playing a game with you or really like you or both.
Then, while they are doing that with you they will offer to go down on a complete stranger.

No contact is the best method with these women.
Once you engage in crazy sex with them it messes you up in a way.

Yeah, it really disturbs me, actually, the thought that she would prefer that type of sex. I wonder if it is like Wineaux said, that that may be all she's known. The thought of it makes me feel ill. So I do wonder if our kissing that seemed to impact her so deeply, because I was considerate of her, was just too much to accept. I don't know if I'll ever know because last we discussed it she said "they were just kisses" as if nothing out of the ordinary.

When we were first getting to know one another I asked about her 3 children, if they were all from the same father. She said, "no, 3 different dads...I'm a whore" and laughed. I told her, "You shouldn't talk about yourself that way."

As far as engaging in crazy sex -- I mean again, I don't know that that is what she really wanted, though seems that is her past experience to some extent. So, I still wonder if she was fishing to see how I would respond to her suggestions -- i.e., if I said I wanted to engage with her this way, would she then dismiss me because I actually grossed her out...or did she really want to hear how I did respond -- that I'd rather respect her and treat her with kindness (and fun). I honestly don't think I could have engaged in anything crazy with her. I wouldn't have seen that as healthy for her.

ArthurK wrote:Yeah, it really disturbs me, actually, the thought that she would prefer that type of sex. I wonder if it is like Wineaux said, that that may be all she's known. The thought of it makes me feel ill. So I do wonder if our kissing that seemed to impact her so deeply, because I was considerate of her, was just too much to accept. I don't know if I'll ever know because last we discussed it she said "they were just kisses" as if nothing out of the ordinary.

When we were first getting to know one another I asked about her 3 children, if they were all from the same father. She said, "no, 3 different dads...I'm a whore" and laughed. I told her, "You shouldn't talk about yourself that way."

As far as engaging in crazy sex -- I mean again, I don't know that that is what she really wanted, though seems that is her past experience to some extent. So, I still wonder if she was fishing to see how I would respond to her suggestions -- i.e., if I said I wanted to engage with her this way, would she then dismiss me because I actually grossed her out...or did she really want to hear how I did respond -- that I'd rather respect her and treat her with kindness (and fun). I honestly don't think I could have engaged in anything crazy with her. I wouldn't have seen that as healthy for her.

Perhaps some part of her loved your kisses, but that part of her will never be able to maintain a healthy relationship. She will sabotage it.
Meanwhile, she has a deep yearning to be hurt, so part of her will seek out this experience. I assume that part is very deep and profound.