Do HPD's know they are lying?

I think that their "feelings" are their "truth."

So, if they feel that they haven't been spending too much or drinking too much or goofing-off too much, then they believe that they haven't.

If they're not feeling good about themselves, then the feel that you haven't been nice enough or haven't done enough for them.

If my H doesn't "feel like" he's been golfing recently, then he hasn't....(which why I started marking his golfing times on the calendar.

Plus, they have a remarkable way of "setting aside" and forgetting bad things that they've said or have done. Probably because they spend so much of their time focusing on what they perceive as "other people's mistakes."

H recently criticized me for something (can't remember what it was) that he said was evidence that I didn't care about him. I pointed out that he forgot my Birthday last Sept and has repeatedly promised to do some kind of "make up" for that,....yet always forgets to do it.

However, if he were to talk to someone else, he would loudly proclaim that he's always putting me first and I'm always putting him last.

WifeofBPDH wrote:
Plus, they have a remarkable way of "setting aside" and forgetting bad things that they've said or have done. Probably because they spend so much of their time focusing on what they perceive as "other people's mistakes."

H recently criticized me for something (can't remember what it was) that he said was evidence that I didn't care about him. I pointed out that he forgot my Birthday last Sept and has repeatedly promised to do some kind of "make up" for that,....yet always forgets to do it.

However, if he were to talk to someone else, he would loudly proclaim that he's always putting me first and I'm always putting him last.

That's interesting Wife. My wife always pointed out my behavior and said that it proved that "I didn't love her, and that she cared more for me than I did her."
I was on a constant defensive due to this. I guess it's their way of keeping you off balance.

What Happened? wrote:

WifeofBPDH wrote:
Plus, they have a remarkable way of "setting aside" and forgetting bad things that they've said or have done. Probably because they spend so much of their time focusing on what they perceive as "other people's mistakes."

H recently criticized me for something (can't remember what it was) that he said was evidence that I didn't care about him. I pointed out that he forgot my Birthday last Sept and has repeatedly promised to do some kind of "make up" for that,....yet always forgets to do it.

However, if he were to talk to someone else, he would loudly proclaim that he's always putting me first and I'm always putting him last.

That's interesting Wife. My wife always pointed out my behavior and said that it proved that "I didn't love her, and that she cared more for me than I did her."
I was on a constant defensive due to this. I guess it's their way of keeping you off balance.

Yes....H would frequently do this, too. So, I started keeping a (GROWING) list on my iPad of examples where his behavior that was obviously "less than loving." I add to the list frequently...lol. So, now I have on the tip of my tongue "comebacks" when H makes these crazy claims. I don't care if it causes him "more shame". He needs it. I'm not going to sit back and let him spout out fantasies and tall tales when there is hard-proof to the contrary. The "forgetting my birthday" comeback will see lots of playtime because it's doubtful that he'll ever do anything for my birthday. If he does, then I'll drop that, but until he does, his nose will get rubbed in it. That may seem mean but he's constantly telling me that he's "the nicest guy in the world," and that he "always puts me first". Oh really? I don't know many "nicest guys" that forget their wives' birthdays. And, if they do, they promptly make up for it.

For whatever it's worth I increasingly tried to hold my borderline mom to remember history as the rest of us remembered it. I don't know if it ever helped or hurt though. It didn't seem to work, and more challenge just seemed to strengthen her resolve. I guess that's not surprisingly really since I was focused on the symptoms of her thinking/feeling, but the real underlying issues/causes still weren't being addressed.

I would add that

When any person has less, to much less empathy, they poorly understand the defining essential quality of the term lying. For example, I think the experience of many Nons with Schizoid or Borderline lovers is they more often come to sense that their significant other has a fundamental, yet innocent blindness where empathy is concerned. So, they have a naturally imperfect basis for understanding truth, and lying. But of course, it still makes for a very challenging relationship. Some - maybe the majority -of pwHPD are like this: although they make a relationship a lot of work, they don't really mean to hurt you. Not originally, at least, although a history of relationship failures and a gradual relationship frustration with you can bring out aggressive behavior.

But there are those HPD significant others who understand that empathy is important to you, they just don't care, and they even get egocentric delight by taking the easy way out - which is what lying is: taking the easy way out. I have heard some folks like this defend themselves using the blindness argument, saying that "hey, if I can't fundamentally understand empathy, then I am blameless, right?. So yeah, I'm off the hook; let me do what I want." That always sounds so transparently manipulative, scheming, and, disingenuous.
Nons often apprehensively- instinctively - want to know if they have been worked over by an HPD or other disordered person who has antisocial traits. If you feel like, if you finally find out the psychological truth about your significant other, it's going to produce a galvanic spasm in your gut (kinda like getting gutshot, or punched in the stomach), I think this is a deep instinctual indicator from your autonomic nervous system that you are dealing with a person that has antisocial traits (listen to your body!). According to Millon, some pwHPD (his so-called disingenuous subtype) can be deliberately antisocial: plotting, crafty, scheming, covert, underhanded, etc.
And of course, unless they decide to change, many are great liars, a behavior that goes hand in hand with covert emotional cheating, or even physical infidelity.

xdude wrote:For whatever it's worth I increasingly tried to hold my borderline mom to remember history as the rest of us remembered it. I don't know if it ever helped or hurt though. It didn't seem to work, and more challenge just seemed to strengthen her resolve. I guess that's not surprisingly really since I was focused on the symptoms of her thinking/feeling, but the real underlying issues/causes still weren't being addressed.

The reason that I do it is to get H to "stop in his tracks" of attacking me for something that he's ten times worse at doing.

Sometimes it's the only way to stop one of his rants. In the case of reminding him that he forgot my birthday, it really did stop him completely from going forth and complaining/ranting about some very minor thing that I forgot....especially when he knows that he's never corrected that situation, while I have corrected my little mistake.

In my case, my H lives in the fantasy world that he's perfect, nice, fair, and always thinking of others. So, he thinks that gives him the right to rant whenever he perceives that others haven't been perfect. That's why it's important to point out that he has flaws, too. That he also makes mistakes. That he also doen't always put others first. That he can be very mean at times.

H once declared that he "never loses anything." OMG...he stated that as fact. So, I said, "what about the 2 leather coats that you've lost this year." H was dumbfounded. He had "forgotten" those instances. So, now he doesn't say that nonsense anymore.

Just recently he said something about his great driving. I reminded him that he's gotten 2 speeding tickets during the last year. H DIDN"T REMEMBER getting those tickets! Thankfully, I had kept the evidence and showed him. He had "erased" those events from his mind because those were evidence of "mistakes."

On Christmas, H will get annoyed when he sees that our son has bought me something nice. H will complain that our son won't have bought him anything. I will then ask him, "what did you buy him? What did you buy me"" The answer will be nothing. He needs to have his nose rubbed in it. He needs to have it pointed out that he shouldn't expect gifts when he hasn't bought any.

See, H was raised in a family that NEVER pointed out inconsistencies....EVER. So, H grew up ranting and complaining about things without ANY KIND of "reality check". He grew up expecting without giving. He grew up entitled. he was allowed to be demanding and a "receiver" but never a giver.


I don't say these "reality checks" in a mean way. I say them very matter-of-factly. He needs his bubble burst.....frequently. He'll forget that he's bounced checks or something else. If I just let him continue in his fantasy, it just increases.