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It all went wrong ***trigger: abuse***

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Re: It all went wrong ***trigger: abuse***

Postby Una+ » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:55 pm

Bourbonny, I am not saying cut your sister out of your life, but you do need to "get some boundaries" with her so that she does not hurt you so much. Here is what Dr Henry Cloud and Dr John Townsend say about the space between having no boundaries and cutting someone off.

Cloud and Townsend, "Safe People", chapter 13 "Should I repair or replace?", pp. 195-196:

5. Give change a chance.

Many times people will get tired of what they have been putting up with in a relationship, and finally "get some boundaries." Then their first real exercise of boundaries will be to end the relationship. We see this often in marriage. One passive partner will get a stomach full of the other person's character problems and finally say, "Enough!" And then they will file for divorce.

They will often say that this is an exercise in "boundaries," but in reality it is a cop-out. Boundaries in a relationship are not real boundaries unless someone can exercise them in the relationship. To say that you now have boundaries, and then leave, is to not have boundaries at all.

A person with true boundaries would go back in to the relationship and take stands on the individual problems that come up within the day-to-day relationship. This is the true test of boundaries, to be in the relationship and not be controlled or abused anymore.

There are two reasons to work on boundaries within the relationship. The first is to take responsibility for one's own character. The real test of our character is to do the difficult things while in the difficult relationship, not to leave it. That is where the hard choices are. It takes a lot of courage and character to deal with a difficult person in the right way. We can only know that we have done the right thing and that we truly have character when we have been tested in the fire of relationship.

In addition, facing up to a difficult relationship is also the only guarantee that one will be able to do the right thing in a new relationship. Many times people leave one bad relationship without ever learning to do the right thing and just go repeat the cycle over again in a new one. They have not changed in the fire; they have only left the fire. That is not real change, and they are setting themselves up for failure again.

The second reason to give change a chance is that we never really know if the relationship has a chance until we begin to do the right thing over time. When one person changes, the relationship changes. In our experience, many difficult situations have been turned around by the character change of one party forcing change in the other. This is true in friendship, business relationships, family relationships, marriage, and dating. Therefore, before you leave a relationship, make sure that you begin to implement your changes in the relationship. Then you will know what is really there.


So, applied to your relationship with your sister, this staying in relationship and giving change a chance could mean that you begin by having a conversation with her about what happened during your visit. About how she waited until midnight when everyone was tired then picked a fight with you. How this was not acceptable to you. How you will not let it happen again: until you are sure she accepts that this is a big deal for you etc, you will not stay overnight in her home. You cannot control her behavior but you can and will control your exposure to her behavior.

Good for you, by the way, for going home in the middle of the night.
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Re: It all went wrong ***trigger: abuse***

Postby bourbon » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:08 am

LittleRedDogToo wrote:I don't have anything to add conversation-wise. I just wanted to leave you a wish for a better day tomorrow and safe hugs and jellybeans.


Thank you. Wishes, hugs and jellybeans warmly accepted! (As long as they are not popcorn flavoured jellybeans, they are ming and a half)

Una+ wrote:Bourbonny, I am not saying cut your sister out of your life, but you do need to "get some boundaries" with her so that she does not hurt you so much. Here is what Dr Henry Cloud and Dr John Townsend say about the space between having no boundaries and cutting someone off.


Huh. This has shocked our system. You said Bourbonny....

Anyway... running away saying "this is me setting boundaries" is a huge cop-out. I get that. But even the thought of addressing my sister in that way -- after feeling about an inch tall as she turned into the mother at midnight -- makes me think: no chance.

Boundaries in relationships are a MASSIVE issue of mine. I just can't enforce them. The other persons wants and needs swamps my own. Every time. I have self hatred engrained in me so deep I don't feel I have a right to have my own needs.
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Re: It all went wrong ***trigger: abuse***

Postby Johnny-Jack » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:46 am

This thread was way too close to home so I didn't touch it for a couple days. Protect yourself, firstly. If you need to shut off any contact for a period, do that. With a little time you would gain more perspective anyway. My sister is not quite so aggressive or cruel but she is passively aggressive in her own way. I was upset when I found out that a single random week when I announced I was going to the empty family home "happened" to be the one when my older sister was also going there. This after I told her I didn't want to see her because she was unhealthy for me.

So maybe a coincidence and I try to be polite but avoid too much talk or try to keep it neutral. She is in aggressive denial of everything and probably DDNOS. I tell her not to mention either parent to me unless it was in a utilitarian way. Within minutes of my arrival she started to tell a cutesy story about the father and I walked out.

The other siblings have known for years that she succumbed to the programming, the rewriting of family history, by my mother. But now I can recognize that it's an automatic self-protection system as well. Still, it is triggering to me and is experienced as an aggressive, threatening gesture even when I know it's psychological source. So I want to avoid seeing her for any reason until I know better how to keep my system stable around her. To her credit, she hasn't tried to email me except for legal-financial issues. She's the executor of the mother's will, I'm buying the house (I think Jack and some littles want it). No problem if we keep it all business but that's all I can stomach right now. The denial is triggering and it makes me very sad for her. She's stuck in a prison not unlike mine.
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Re: It all went wrong ***trigger: abuse***

Postby bourbon » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:03 am

Johnny - thanks for taking the time to reply when it is a triggering topic for you.

I can see how my situation was very close to home to you. I can relate a lot to what you are saying about your siblings. About the programming of history from the mother. The denial. The aggressiveness as a self protective method. You have put up those boundaries that Una speaks of and that is something I look up to. You haven't run away. You've changed the relationship. This is what I need to do. I need some time to prepare myself for this. Perhaps I will let me sister know tomorrow that I will be in touch, just not yet. If she gets angry about that and demanding then I will review my decision.

I am learning so much from this site - not just about DID but about personal boundaries and trauma too. It is making a huge difference.

Thanks all.
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Re: It all went wrong ***trigger: abuse***

Postby Johnny-Jack » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:28 am

bourbon wrote:Perhaps I will let me sister know tomorrow that I will be in touch, just not yet. If she gets angry about that and demanding then I will review my decision.

what would happen if that last sentence read...I will repeat my decision.
Dx = DID. My blog. My personal Periodic Table of 78 alters.
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Re: It all went wrong ***trigger: abuse***

Postby bourbon » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:33 am

Johnny-Jack wrote:what would happen if that last sentence read...I will repeat my decision.


Good point. Stay firm to what you need and want. Right?
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Re: It all went wrong ***trigger: abuse***

Postby Una+ » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:23 am

bourbon wrote:
Johnny-Jack wrote:what would happen if that last sentence read...I will repeat my decision.

Good point. Stay firm to what you need and want. Right?

Absolutely. You might even go a step beyond that and think out in advance more ways to protect yourself. For example, if she starts screaming at you you might tell her calmly stop screaming or you will hang up. Allow a few seconds for that to sink in. Then, if she does not stop, hang up.

See if your partner will help you think up other actions you can take to maintain your emotional safety with your sister.
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Re: It all went wrong ***trigger: abuse***

Postby bourbon » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:22 am

Una+ wrote:Absolutely. You might even go a step beyond that and think out in advance more ways to protect yourself. For example, if she starts screaming at you you might tell her calmly stop screaming or you will hang up. Allow a few seconds for that to sink in. Then, if she does not stop, hang up.


Thanks... these little things that I can put in place is helping me see the whole task of talking my sister needn't be such a daunting thing. I'm not giving myself to her by allowing this conversation to happen. There needs to be respect and I can enforce this respect.

Thanks a lot.
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Re: It all went wrong ***trigger: abuse***

Postby Borg » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:13 pm

Hi Bourbon,
I'm sorry you are going through this.

I do recommend as others had said, on reading up on setting boundaries. If it helps any, I think most people actually respond well to healthy boundaries, and they respect that. :D

I wish you the best, I know how trying this can be, sorry. ((Hugs if wanted))
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Re: It all went wrong ***trigger: abuse***

Postby bourbon » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:46 pm

Hugs gratefully received Borg - thanks for your words :)
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