Does the original core being exist?

boopsy26 wrote:Neurologically speaking, when we are young our brains are still forming connections and pruning different neural pathways. Our "primitive" brain (the area associated with trauma and memory) begins to go a bit haywire under extreme stress and, as a child, this affects these pathways being developed. Because this area is associated with implicit (or unconscious) memory, events that occur start to be stored in different areas of the brain and are not connected to each other. Simply, this is DID. A "split" does not happen. It's that integration and the proper formation of these neural pathways never occurred. So, coming at it from this angle, there is no "core" self. It is parts that are associated with different pockets of memory, emotions, and activities, and different "parts" can form as a child while these areas are still developing and as new traumas/ memories occur.

I know this is a little sciency, but the technical sometimes helps make sense of the abstract, subjective experience. A "core" self is still very, very real to those that experience it and may help with identifying where one's fears and deepest emotions lie. But, like so many of these terms, they are just ways to explain and try to understand- they are not solid, tangible things that unequivocally exist. So, if you feel that you have a core self, then there's nothing wrong with you using that term to help you and your T understand.

But keep this in mind, as well. By this logic, I could reason that all humans are nothing more than machines. Everything you feel, everything you think- it's just the result of different pockets of neurons firing in your brain. So much of it is influenced by the outside world, pure instinct, and genetics. Can you really say that you yourself (or any other person) are not just a puppet of your brain? Just a part associated with different pockets of memory, emotions, and activity?

And I mean this beyond just having a lose idea of self. I mean that alters are selves in the exact same way that everyone else is; genetics and experiences combining, lighting up certain areas of the brain at certain areas of time to form a "person."

There is no solid core self because there is no solid self. Just as you may not accept a core self, I could just as easily accept that there is no such thing as thought, emotion, or free will beyond what our DNA and environment have programmed into us. The illusion of free choice exists because you would have no free thought to determine otherwise. It's beyond conscious versus unconscious. There is no conscious. It's all the brain, it's all neurons firing signals. It's all energy and matter. Thought cannot be proven, therefore it isn't real, right? Thought has no place in a world of chemistry, biology, and physics. Thought just simply isn't real. Therefore, there is no self. Alters cannot be real because there is no self there in the first place to allow them to exist from.

Or maybe people are more than just genetics. Maybe people are thoughts and ideas, loves and hates, conflicts, tears and laughs, memories and hopes and dreams. If this defines a person, then alters are people, as well. And one of these people could have easily come first, making them the core self.


As for the original question, we have 13 cores. For us, the cores are the ones who the others split from. They themselves all came from/are one source and are equal in power. Every other split in the system came from one of them. We protect the cores above all else, and we all show more dedication to our own core than any other "part" in the system. They have the most power.
~Rage

Demon Lilith wrote:There is no solid core self because there is no solid self. Just as you may not accept a core self, I could just as easily accept that there is no such thing as thought, emotion, or free will beyond what our DNA and environment have programmed into us. The illusion of free choice exists because you would have no free thought to determine otherwise. It's beyond conscious versus unconscious. There is no conscious. It's all the brain, it's all neurons firing signals. It's all energy and matter. Thought cannot be proven, therefore it isn't real, right? Thought has no place in a world of chemistry, biology, and physics. Thought just simply isn't real. Therefore, there is no self. Alters cannot be real because there is no self there in the first place to allow them to exist from.

Or maybe people are more than just genetics. Maybe people are thoughts and ideas, loves and hates, conflicts, tears and laughs, memories and hopes and dreams. If this defines a person, then alters are people, as well. And one of these people could have easily come first, making them the core self.

Philosophy at it's greatest! I love this!!!

Dang.. you all are going to get me more confused! Now that all is triggering. (just kidding)


*Category Triggers Big Time!

Thoughts on this?

Page 80 - The Haunted Self
The literature on DID often mentions the existence of a so-called "host," the ANP that is "out" or in executive control most of the time (Braun, Kluft, Putnam).

It has also generally been referred to as the "original" Personality. However, in tertiary structural dissociation no such original personality exists, nor is the host a non-dissociative part of the personality. Instead, the personality is divided in two or more dissociative parts, one or more of which may be considered the "host."

We prefer the term ANP, because the host has functions of living normal daily life, and has not, or not fully, realized the traumatization. Some DID patients may have several dissociative parts which have key positions in daily life, and therefore could be called "hosts," even though they may not be in executive control more often than others.

I was about to write, “Interesting thread” then I realised I started it.

You folks have added so much information to what I already had. This is amazingly helpful. Thank you for your replies.

So .. what is your conclusion now?

So what or who are the parts of us protecting from trauma memory? Or is there nothing? Each part simply holds them until they can process them?

Personally, I think it's about soul-survival. The psyche will do whatever is necessary to protect the mind for the sake of soul-survival.

Does that sound too weird?

I am Tylas, a part that is finally aware. A part that was protected and kept unaware for my safety. This is not Core Self or Self.

Same here. I am Rose and I'm one of many parts that 'evolved' to help the born body and mind survive the ignorance of the parents. For a long time we were unaware of what was going on - and of each other.

I duno who I am,
Im named as tinypieces, but somtimes i duno who that is.


makes me sad sumtimes

Rosee wrote:

I am Tylas, a part that is finally aware. A part that was protected and kept unaware for my safety. This is not Core Self or Self.

Same here. I am Rose and I'm one of many parts that 'evolved' to help the born body and mind survive the ignorance of the parents. For a long time we were unaware of what was going on - and of each other.

Excellent. I can live with that summary myself. Oh yeah... I already said that.

Tiny - all parts of you are you! You are one whole beautiful person with some big dividers between your parts that make them function quite separate - at least for now.

I thought of making a new thread, but I found this one and decided not to multiply entities.

I have found this article (proceed carefully there is sexual abuse triggers):
http://www.dissociation.com/2007/docRea ... %26did.txt

Since it is quite ancient (published in 1998) I have found there an interesting ideas. Author discusses a few clinic cases of MPD and DID, trying to separate them. As far as I know MPD and DID are united now, but he gives some criteria on differences between these. And important thoughts on presence and absence of "original personality". Here is quote with criteria of presence of "original personality":

1. The patient is very highly hypnotizable, in the top 4% of the population.
2. The first dissociation occurs before the age of seven, due to life threatening trauma.
3. The parents are seen by the abused child as polarized, one good and one bad. However,
mother and father keeps switching which one is which.
4. The siblings are polarized, with only this patient having been the abused one. The other
children are treated normally by the abuser.
These factors result in the patient having an ISH and several types of alter-personalities,
but no Original Personality prior to therapy.

I can refer only for myself, and I feel like my system have an original personality. And she is not me. Just logically I match with these criteria: 2nd - I was 6 and my mother tried to kill me. 3rd - they were, and 4th - my younger sister was not abused. I don't know if i'm at "4% of population", I just know that I'm easily got hypnotized.

* * * triggers warning: medical and sexual stuff * * *

The thing is that objectively there were no life treat. It was medical procedure. I was at hospital and a nurse wanted to take my blood from a vein. But she forgot to tell me that she won't take ALL my blood and that this huge 3 liter bottle is not for me. So I tried to fight with her, and she called my mother to help her. And when she came to hold me then something cracked in my head.(My granddad was a WW II veteran and i grown on stories about horrible tortures made by fascists. And I somehow decided that they are fascists to kill me.) I remember lying on a couch and unable to move seeing how nurse pokes my hand with needle again and again because she can't find vein. And my mother holds me so I can't move and run away and she does not hear me begging for help. And then I splitted apart. There was falling in a well with gray walls and at the same time I saw how body turns it's head to see a needle and blood in tube. After this a rape next day instead of enema (male nurse told me it was enema for adults) was taken without any criticism and it took me 20 years to realize that enema is standard sized and "enema for adults" does not exist.

end of triggers

Now I can suggest why I don't remember my life before this hospital (first 6 years) and when I was taken home and saw toys there - I was in great surprise because I had no memory of me playing with them. It was not me who played with these toys before. And it is a good explanation why I feel like body's name is not mine and why I feel like I'm a stranger who got in some one's place by accident.

I think that in my case "original" self is a complex of happy and maybe naive childhood emotions which were separated from consciousness to survive in a dangerous circumstances. The important thing is that self was in safe and comforting environment before the abuse, so there was time to create partially whole self before splitting. And this unfinished not developing part of mind must be hidden under my personality. Honestly the thought that I'm not original self makes me comfort and gives hope that I can someday get united into a person with a full specter of emotions and feeling of self, even if this will mean fading of "me" how I am now.