Difference between Autistic Masking' and having Alters?

Last night I saw an interesting program about Autism. I haven't met other really high functioning people with autism face to face in real life not that I knew were autistic at the time for me to relaise the differences between us.

As well as showing a non-speaking young man they also showed a more able young woman who wished to show her mother what she was like when she was 'unmasked' as only her husband had seen her that way. When she was describing how she wished she didn't have to mask so much etc it made me realise that she still saw herself as one person in 2 states masked or unmasked.

When I was the age she was we were 'Thea' and there was no connection or communication between her and the others eg when 'Sue' switched out with her on the train cos we were going home for the weekend...so Thea left the train station at one end and Sue arrived at the other end! But yet some were aware of each other. eg Sue would try to create opportunity for 'Bobby' to come out by making sure we got some alone time during that weekend or offering to walk the dog so we could get somewhere with no one else about ...so some alters 'knew of each other' whilst some (Thea and Maddie) never had any idea the others existed the entire time they hosted.

I think 'Bobby' and 'Kit' are our 'unmasked versions of me' but we see them as seperate people and they've never seen the 'social masks' as versions of them.

When I hosted orginally betwen 11-13 I didn't know of the others or that I was considered 'Sophie - who dealt with school during those years' by the others. After several days blended with the others and receiving 'updates' I feel very different.

Yesterday I felt depressed and tearful alot but I think it's because Yuna suffered from depression more than the others...now she seems to have integrated further down so I only have access to the memories without her emotions relating to the situations, that seems to have gone off today. Does this mean we three (me - Lily, Yuna and Jay) have successfully integrated?

Bobby still flits in and out but I find I identify with being autistic more when they are blended with me than when its just me. We think now they need to re-integrate with LS to trigger a 'final fusion' of 'versions of me' but LS is not ready yet.

There will still be a few remain seperate - those that Bobby deliberately created in their mind as Tulpa companions who are not alters created from 'trauma splits'. I think our confusion has been from the fact we have both in our system as Bobby used MD (Maladaptive Daydreaming/intense fantasising) heavily as coping strategy when we were younger. The girl in the program had none of these just a sense of when she was masking and when she wasn't.


Lily.

Nominally, the big difference at least from DID is the amnesia.
Everyone has different personality states, some more extreme than others, but not everyone has a difference in identity between personality states (alters) or gaps of memory between them. I have a friend Megan, who we think of as ambiguously plural because while you can't be diagnosed with a dissociative disorder when this happens, she becomes a completely different person with a completely different name when using drugs or after suicide attemtps. She also has "Modes" that she has given different names that do things like read the news, make dinner, play video games, that she keeps memory between but are different enough to almost be separate people. Lucy the news reader gets really angry about politics but can't be arsed to play games.

PrimePossum wrote:Nominally, the big difference at least from DID is the amnesia.
Everyone has different personality states, some more extreme than others, but not everyone has a difference in identity between personality states (alters) or gaps of memory between them. I have a friend Megan, who we think of as ambiguously plural because while you can't be diagnosed with a dissociative disorder when this happens, she becomes a completely different person with a completely different name when using drugs or after suicide attemtps. She also has "Modes" that she has given different names that do things like read the news, make dinner, play video games, that she keeps memory between but are different enough to almost be separate people. Lucy the news reader gets really angry about politics but can't be arsed to play games.

What is your friend diagnosed with then? Do you mean she only becomes a different person after being on drugs?

my friend's only diagnoses are autism and social anxiety disorder, but yeah pretty much. she only has amnesia barriers when on drugs

Some substances can cause weird things to the brain that's why diagnosis need to be done when the person is sober.

__
Alters are dissociated parts with their own sense of self, agency and identity. You need to have amnesia to get diagnosed with DID (Not blackouts between alters! Just amnesia.) but there are other dissociative disorders you can get diagnosed with depending on how separate are the alters and what diagnosis manual you use (OSDD, partial DID...)

Autistic people are often dissociated - not always to the point of DID though. They can have any kind of dissociative disorder.

An autism mask is a behavior one learns to automaticlaly do when in public. This behavior can be contained within only one alter (if the person is dissociated) or shared by all the alters.

Unmasking means "turning off this automatic behavior". It's different from switching but it's impressive to see and it can look way more impressive than DID switches.

It's difficult to get the difference when you are both DID and autistic because in this case, the "autistic mask" can be contained within one specific alter so in this situation, unmasking and switching is the same. But for people who are less dissociated, unmasking just means "turning off this behavior".

ArbreMonde wrote:Alters are dissociated parts with their own sense of self, agency and identity. You need to have amnesia to get diagnosed with DID (Not blackouts between alters! Just amnesia.) but there are other dissociative disorders you can get diagnosed with depending on how separate are the alters and what diagnosis manual you use (OSDD, partial DID...)

When we were younger there was amnesia between alters, with most not being aware of each other at the time. Since our 40's though when we have all learned about each other and actively work together co-hosting etc we probably wouldn't get a DID diagnosis now and see no point as many have re-integrated (more smaller fragments with one or two memories or functions and a couple of 'full allter' identies)

ArbreMonde wrote:Autistic people are often dissociated - not always to the point of DID though. They can have any kind of dissociative disorder.

Would Maladaptive Daydreaming and the ability to create Tulpa's be seen as dissociative? Kit wonders if we actually have a version of OSDD as all hosts have been 'versions of me' alters over the years except for the non-human ones created by Bobby (ie changelings) Though we can all see, interact, co-host with them which you wouldn't expect to be able to see someone else's 'imaginary friends'?

ArbreMonde wrote:An autism mask is a behavior one learns to automaticlaly do when in public. This behavior can be contained within only one alter (if the person is dissociated) or shared by all the alters.

Unmasking means "turning off this automatic behavior". It's different from switching but it's impressive to see and it can look way more impressive than DID switches.

It's difficult to get the difference when you are both DID and autistic because in this case, the "autistic mask" can be contained within one specific alter so in this situation, unmasking and switching is the same. But for people who are less dissociated, unmasking just means "turning off this behavior".

I think this is why our system see's Bobby as 'the original child' because they are the unmasked one who always remained unmasked they never came out in front of other people after 'social mask' hosts started to get created to deal with school etc. They never spoke or had the ability to behave any other way than obviously autistic. The social mask hosts always only came out to go to school or other social events parents took us to...so I guess our 'masks' were always seperate identies?

Kit was a split off them, more independant, could speak and cope enough to do favourite things like walk the dog, go to the shops (as long as not too many other people were about) cope with small groups of well known people but wasn't interested in social media. They had enough skills to do what they wanted and what was needed but seemed to lack desire of lots of social interaction with others. Bobby and Kit do identify with being autistic...It's possible they may eventually re-integrate as one but still remain seperate from the rest of us.

The others were almost programmed to believe they were NT...what they liked was what was popular that everyone else liked....if everyone (around them..other kids etc) watched a specific soap they would say they watched it and maybe even watch it before meeting up with specific people incase it was discussed etc. I would have fit that role when I was first out but I don't remember switching or knowing about the others originally (when I was 11-13) I just know I have some specific memories from that time period that others haven't got...and there are some memories I don't have yet from the others. I have a vague autobiographical life timeline memory from Yuna/Jay integrating with me.

I haven't done an official appointment or social event yet since I have been here but I think Kate comes to the front to help for a couple of hours.

Lily

Lily@TheTriForce wrote:Would Maladaptive Daydreaming and the ability to create Tulpa's be seen as dissociative?

I don't think maladaptive daydreaming is dissociative in itself (though it can count as a transe like state I suppose) but some dissociated people do engage in maladaptive daydreaming to cope. They over-use their Innterworld through maladaptive daydreaming because it's what helps them get by and cope.

Creating tulpas is linked to dissociative abilities from what I understand from the contemporary practice. Dissociated people are more able to create tulpas than people who do not dissociate, as an example. A "successful" tulpa is supposed to have their own sense of self and agency and to be able to control the body, just like an alter.

Lily@TheTriForce wrote:Kit wonders if we actually have a version of OSDD.

With the blackouts from when you were younger, I guess it would have clearly been DID when you were younger. Presently, I'm not sure about the intensity of your symptoms to be able to hint you towards DID, p-DID or OSDD. Anyway, we change diagnosis category when we heal, from DID to p-DID to OSDD to PTSD to fully healed (rough sketch, the reality is always a bit more complicated). Functional multiplicity is fully healed because "being plural" is not pathological in itself, it's the dissociation and the traumas that are pathological.

Lily@TheTriForce wrote:I think this is why our system see's Bobby as 'the original child' because they are the unmasked one who always remained unmasked they never came out in front of other people after 'social mask' hosts started to get created to deal with school etc. They never spoke or had the ability to behave any other way than obviously autistic. The social mask hosts always only came out to go to school or other social events parents took us to...so I guess our 'masks' were always seperate identies?

They might have started as masks and became more and more dissociated until they became fully formed alters. Or they might have started as fully dissociated. I cannot tell, but you can. Both possibilities exist (and many shades in between and on the side!) and the result in adult you is, well, how you are today.

Lily@TheTriForce wrote:The others were almost programmed to believe they were NT.

That's the sad part about autism masking IMO: loosing one's authenticity in order to mask and conform. It's such a relief being able to unmask!

Thanks for answering @ArbreMonde. I think you're right our earliest 'symptoms' (the way the system worked back then) when we were too young to understand seem to point towards DID.

Bobby insists Kate is a Tulpa and not an alter and Kate can actually front for us when we have needed her to. She rarely does as she tended to always work with Yuna who preferred the co-hosting twin like feeling...or come out to supervise LS in which case she stayed in the background so LS could have control of the body to play her games on the switch.

Jess is also a Tulpa but as she prefers animal form she tends to stay inside She interacts with Bobby and Kit most, they both like to feel her blended with them though they are always the ones still in control of the body. They can all communicate in a kind of visual picture language really fast with each other. I'm still getting used to it, its kind of like someone sending you a text message but entirely in emoji's and you trying to work out what the 'eck they mean!! They often front 'as one' but seperate inside to be able to do their own thing.

I'm not sure how we can unmask then if we have designated alters for 'unmasked' or 'masked' as Bobby will never want to deal with loads of people for them to ever meet 'Bobby' and the ones that were 'masks' don't know any other way of being? Maybe that's why I'm here to be some kind of 'inbetween stage' for the others to blend with?

Lily

It's okay if some of you prefer to be called "tulpa" rather than "alter". A friend of mine also does this and it helps her to better work on her traumas and on sharing ressources because she can "pre-make" (empty) identities that her parts can use to express specific issues or inhabit for longer periods of time before fusing again once the work is done.

A bit like ego state therapy but ~fancy~ I guess.

well over this last weekend we have worked together to create a 'partial mask' state.

Kit thought I would be the best 'candidate' having less preconceptions and being new to the front I didn't really have a fully developed seperate adult personality yet I was last closer to Bobby but with more social skill as it seems I was orginally a split from (child) Bobby, Susie and Phoenix blending at around age 10 to create a new 'social mask' to attend secondary school for them!

Bobby re-blended with me in their adult form this time so everything they have learned more recently could also be passed on. I have some of Kit's skill's also, though thankfully not the intensity of her paranoia! (Kate blending previous has 'taken the edge off' that it seems). I can age-slide so not stuck in the mind frame that I'm still only 13 and the body is in its 50's!

I share Bobby's ability to see and visit the inner world at will and age-slide back down if I want to but I don't carry all their triggers so don't react as much to a sudden unexpected noise ..I may wonder what it is and where its coming from but it doesn't 'upset' me to the point I can't cope with it or continue with whatever I was doing at the time.

I don't feel 'I must be seen as NT at all times to survive' in the same way that some of the later 'social mask' alters did from late teens onwards. Kit has not shared detailed memories of the 'breakdowns' of Thea or Maddie parts.. I know they happened like as a fact as if talking about someone else but 'I' carry no memories or feelings about those events. Kit will be remaining seperate in a protector/caretaker role.

At the minute Kit and I are taking turns to do shifts. Bobby has returned inside to visit LS and reassure her that they haven't vanished! ..and the system as a whole is deciding how it wants to 'work' for the future.

Overall it seems it was a good thing to see that TV program as it's triggered a change towards a new way of 'being'.


Lily