New Here, New Front, Have Questions

Hi. We’ve never posted here or anywhere like this before but, following the advice of our therapist, we’ve started looking into resources written by systems, for systems. So here we are.

Firstly, to introduce ourselves: our system name is Jayce. We have a male body, in its 50s. There are 4 of us. There is Jayce, the former front, who has suddenly started presenting as an 8 or 9 year old child since the switch to the new front. (Which I have all kinds of questions about, but will save for another post, to keep this one focused.) There is Hyde, a man the same age as the body. To keep things short, he looks after our self care and sense of pride. There is the Wolf, our protector in the outside world. He’s a wolf (or werewolf sometimes) and age doesn’t seem a terribly relevant concept to him. And then there’s the current and new front, the one writing now: Lily, an older teen/young 20s girl.

To ask my questions, I have to make reference to past abuse trauma, so if that bothers you, this is probably the time to stop reading.

In the old days (most of our lives) we were mostly unaware of each other. Various difficulties and traumas caused the three of us not in front at the time (me, Hyde, and the Wolf) to suddenly take over and do our own thing for hours or days, leaving Jayce with no memories of that time and some very awkward questions to answer. We came to discover each other, though, and over the years we learned to communicate with each other and try to cooperate.

Then, a little more than 2 years ago, when our long term partner left us in the middle of a bout of long COVID, we had the start of a breakdown. But instead of collapsing, we suddenly all became coconscious instead, and started sharing the burdens.

Problem is, our front Jayce is the one who holds the memories of our abuse. And he’d kind of internalized the voice of our father, our primary abuser. He was, if I have understood the terminology correctly, a strange fusion of front, protector, trauma holder, and persecutor. He suffered from depression, severe anxiety, frequent flashbacks, and intrusive thoughts. Constantly one step away from collapse. So, though we were all coconscious and all cooperating, it was difficult, sometimes teeth-clenched teamwork, and barely functional.

Eventually, we decided to try to find a therapist. Yes, I know, kind of late in the game. Our therapist had some brilliant ideas. One of them was to spend some time fronting the other 3 of us, to shake up our habit-patterns and learn more about ourselves as a system.

And boy, did we. I (Lily) spent most of the time out front, as neither Hyde nor the Wolf is temperamentally suited to long term fronting. The difference was striking. Almost a 50% reduction in flashbacks and such, frequent feelings of happiness.

You see, Jayce had been the one to suffer the abuse for us. Me, especially, he kept locked away from all of that. My memories of our childhood are just of the happy times, of feeling safe and protected. My old role in the system was to spend some time sometimes just being happy, and not remembering. So I didn’t have the same issues he and the others did.

And when the bad times did come while I fronted, I could handle things better. Give a panicked and rapidly-becoming-enraged Wolf a cooldown hug. Remind Jayce that what he was seeing was a memory, not the here and now. And so forth. I experienced the bad things with them but, because they were not my memories, there was a distance between me and those things. So I was not overwhelmed, and could keep a cool head. I had a positive relationship with Hyde, whereas he and Jayce had always been enemies.

The nature of the problem quickly became apparent. Jayce was created and optimized to survive in an environment we no longer lived in. And applying survival strategies from that environment in this one was causing a LARGE portion of our problems. He’d kept us alive, but was currently making us crazy.

As soon as he realized that he was one of the main problems, he took action to remove that problem, as was always his habit. I presume most of you are familiar with the car metaphor for systems? Well, he pulled over, got out, tossed me the keys, got in the back seat, and went to sleep. And suddenly I’m the new front. Not so much as a word to me first.

It’s been a little over a month, now. I’m adjusting. But it’s not easy. And I have questions. I’m hoping someone else here has switched fronts before and can answer them.

For one thing, I’m suddenly clumsy. Jayce was something of an athlete. He fought in 3 or 4 martial arts tournaments a year, back in the day. I keep tripping over my own feet. For awhile, I couldn’t look in a different direction while walking without walking in that direction. It can be hard to find ways to sit or stand that don’t look and feel awkward. I am getting over this clumsiness, but it’s slow. Is this ever going to go away completely? Have we permanently lost something of our coordination?

And then there’s the body dysphoria. In the inner world I spent most of my life in, I had my own body. Female, shorter and slighter than this body. I expected that giving that mental body up for the physical one would be difficult. I expected a period of adjustment. But I expected I would quickly get used to it.

Apparently, I thought wrong. It’s bothering me more than I expected. It frequently pulls me out of myself, threatens my hold on the front. It creates a feeling of anxiety and discomfort. General low-key freakout feelings are constant. During the worst times, it borders on causing an existential crisis. A lot of it is the gender thing. But that’s not all of it. Even if this was a female body, it still wouldn’t be MY body. Still not my face looking at me in the mirror.

Can anyone help with this? I am at a loss.

And speaking of gender, I would appreciate any advice anyone can give on framing how to think of my own, now that 3 out of 4 of me are male but the front is female.

Finally, while I am free of the trauma that haunts the others, I am trying to help them heal. So when they suffer, I experience that suffering with them. I can be loving and happy and hopeful, I can keep my rationality and perspective no matter how bad things get. But…. I have little experience being out front or dealing with negative emotions. I am in some ways the weakest out of all of us. Makes sense, as I spent the least time out front most of our lives. So the others’ reactions are so LOUD (metaphorically speaking). They drive me out of the front. They overwhelm me. I risk losing myself in them. It happened, for awhile, some days ago, and I experienced self hatred for the first time.

So how can I get stronger? How can I hold onto the front? How can I not drown in their emotions so I can stay close and help them? All my life, I ran and hide deep inside when confronted with stress. That doesn’t exactly leave me with a lot of tools, and that one is no good now.

Also, is this just going to end up damaging me, like it did the others?

OK, going to stop here. Sorry it’s so long. I seem to be more wordy than Jayce was.

I am getting over this clumsiness, but it’s slow. Is this ever going to go away completely? Have we permanently lost something of our coordination?

It's because the part of the brain you control doesn't have yet enough access to the abilities Jayce developed. Everything you learn, when you have DID, can be tied to one precise alter, the one who "created" the neurones needed to learn it. The rest of the system will have more or less access to those neurones. One solution I see would be working on using those skills when you are co-conscious with Jayce. It might help to "link" your part of the brain to them, until it becomes shared skills between you and Jayce. It might take some time tho, and maybe you will need to re-learn some things along the way.

And then there’s the body dysphoria.
Can anyone help with this? I am at a loss.
And speaking of gender, I would appreciate any advice anyone can give on framing how to think of my own, now that 3 out of 4 of me are male but the front is female.

For gender and body dysphoria, the only thing that will really help you is healing trauma and working on dissociation on a daily basis.

Also about gender, be careful. The gender of alters is one thing, but the gender of the system as a whole is another one - the "global sense" of gender forms with more healing and integration between alters (not fusion though, just a deeper connection between everyone). For example, I'm female, my co-host is male. As a whole, we are genderfluid. I know some people who, as a whole, are cis, trans or other shade of non-binary. Their alters see themselves as cis, trans or non-binary sometimes independently of the sex and gender of the body/whole system. For example, our body is female, but my co-host considers himself as a cis man (for multiple reasons, one having to do with how our body is presenting).

So, you are the only one who can really frame how to think of your gender; you as an alter, and you as "your whole system". But the two doesn't have to be the exact same thing.

So how can I get stronger? How can I hold onto the front? How can I not drown in their emotions so I can stay close and help them? All my life, I ran and hide deep inside when confronted with stress. That doesn’t exactly leave me with a lot of tools, and that one is no good now.

Also, is this just going to end up damaging me, like it did the others?

First thing : I've been where you are (trying to help, being surprisingly able to help, while being first made to run away from all that). Helping others to heal will not damage you. It isn't easy, and it will change you, but not damage you. It might seem like you're less stable, or weaker, or more tired. It's normal. You are sharing your skills, your abilities etc. with the rest of your system, so they can learn from you what it is to be happy, to feel safe. Sharing isn't easy, but it will help you all in the long run.

It's because I've taken care of everyone inside, helped them to go through their pain, etc. that right now, we don't qualify for PTSD and DID diagnosis anymore. We've healed 99% of our traumas, and we're all pretty happy with our life and ourselves. We have only one trauma left to heal, which means our life is almost totally free of flashback. We don't have crushing anxiety anymore (just the normal amount for someone with ADHD). So you're doing exactly the right thing here! Now, you just need more tools and time.

You might want to read the book of Janina Fisher "Healing the fragmented self of trauma survivors". It was made for therapists, but it has really, really great tools and advices for alters like us. You also might want to learn about the attachment theory, how disorganized attachment works, etc. Working inside from an attachment-informed POV really helped me taking care and regulating the others. I'll put you some links at the end of my post.

About the front, things that might helps are grounding technics, specially the one that helps with emotional regulation. Another thing that might help is try to really feel the emotions of the others, like... feeling them in the body for them? Like "okay, I don't see them as my emotion, but I'm currently feeling them with you, and I can let them go through me". Or using mindfulness to notice what their emotions are doing to the body, and help them calm down by using grounding technics that works with the body. I don't know if I'm clear, but it might help to restore the link between the past emotions and the present, where everything is over.

And sometimes, holding on to the front might not be what to do. I've helped some alters of my system by letting them taking over the body, and working from inside, while being co-conscious. Maybe working on that would be more effective for you?

I hope it helps, and I wish the best for you-all!


Attachment theory and DID
DID as an attachment disorder
From infant attachment disorganization to adult dissociation
Summary "Repression of crying as an early relational trauma" (in French, I've putted it in Google Translate for you - you can then navigate the whole website through Google Translate from this link if you want to)

JayceSystem wrote:Hi. We’ve never posted here or anywhere like this before but, following the advice of our therapist, we’ve started looking into resources written by systems, for systems. So here we are.

Hi Lily. I'm Violette and welcome to the forum. Physically, we're in our late 48, but the average age of our system is 19.5. Yes, we calculated it at one point. We're a system of 26 and we came onto the forums with a certain level of co-consciousness already in place as well. I've been sole host for about a year and a half now. We're also autistic and trans.

JayceSystem wrote:To ask my questions, I have to make reference to past abuse trauma, so if that bothers you, this is probably the time to stop reading.

Thank you for the warning. Often users of the forum use Trigger Warning: (label) to give warning.

JayceSystem wrote: [Jayce] was, if I have understood the terminology correctly, a strange fusion of front, protector, trauma holder, and persecutor. He suffered from depression, severe anxiety, frequent flashbacks, and intrusive thoughts.

As you may already know, this is not unheard of or even impossible.

JayceSystem wrote:Eventually, we decided to try to find a therapist. Yes, I know, kind of late in the game. Our therapist had some brilliant ideas. One of them was to spend some time fronting the other 3 of us, to shake up our habit-patterns and learn more about ourselves as a system.

It's wonderful that you have a T (the forum uses 'T' for the person helping us through our various therapy sessions {and I'm not trying to be mean or difficult, just trying to give helpful pointers}). Our T has a little experience with DID but mostly deals with autism, and we got really lucky as finding T's who know about DID and can help are difficult to find.

JayceSystem wrote:For one thing, I’m suddenly clumsy. Jayce was something of an athlete. He fought in 3 or 4 martial arts tournaments a year, back in the day. I keep tripping over my own feet. For awhile, I couldn’t look in a different direction while walking without walking in that direction. It can be hard to find ways to sit or stand that don’t look and feel awkward. I am getting over this clumsiness, but it’s slow. Is this ever going to go away completely? Have we permanently lost something of our coordination?

And then there’s the body dysphoria. In the inner world I spent most of my life in, I had my own body. Female, shorter and slighter than this body. I expected that giving that mental body up for the physical one would be difficult. I expected a period of adjustment. But I expected I would quickly get used to it.

I will add to what Dwelt said about coordination. Part of it is getting used to a body that isn't like yours so you're constantly over or under shooting things. For some of us, it has been kind of like learning to walk on stilts or using remote arms to grasp things. You will get used to moving in a body that's very different from your own inner body, but it took me six months to be able to walk properly, and then there's the other issues. My inner body has wings, horns and a tail. I'm still constantly moving through doors in a way that will allow those to not get caught on them. As Dwelt said, it will take time and effort.

JayceSystem wrote:And speaking of gender, I would appreciate any advice anyone can give on framing how to think of my own, now that 3 out of 4 of me are male but the front is female.

I mentioned being trans. This has been a state of reality for us since the beginning. The four oldest alters (including myself) are all female of inner form. Of the twenty-six of us, twenty-three are female, two are non-binary and one is male. As a whole, our system is female/non-binary. (We use she/they pronouns).

If it helps you specifically front, look at acquiring things that will make you more comfortable in the body even if it means you can only wear them around the house. I am certain that others could make recommendations regarding that. We've done something similar due to the autism like buy gloves to wear even in the summer and even though Leila is the only one who uses them.

JayceSystem wrote:So how can I get stronger? ...Sorry it’s so long. I seem to be more wordy than Jayce was.

Wordy is ok. You write as much or as little as you need to. I'm not going to add anything more than Dwelt did regarding the healing/clinical side of this, but I am going to offer my sympathies and understanding. It isn't easy being host. Some days I talk to my emotional support humans (sister and best friend) or hold our cats. Or lay on the bed and hold our teddy bear. When Pippa or Lilith or Veronica have bad days, I do my best to calm them and help.

I hope you'll come back and talk more. It sometimes helps to just know you're not alone.

Take care,
Vi

Hi Jayce

To help you get comfortable genderwise while you front without isolating others might I suggest gender affirming underwear? Until you as s system settle on a gender identity any upheaval in the publicly perceived gender performance could make the others less comfortable in the body and you may find that exacerbates your clumsiness as the others retreat further from the front.

We avoid mirrors and use an app to change our face on photos its the only way to cope with facial dysphoria. As a system we have claimed genderfluid as an identity but we all see ourselves as cis when fronting half of us are male and half of us are female one of us leans more towards butch lesbian when she is blending with the boys but as a rule it is a fairly big swing between presenting ultra fem with wig, dresses etc and ultra masc with binders and packers. We have a naturally occurring soft mustache like a tean boy would have and currently we do not shave it or any of our body hair so we often get mistaken for a transfemale.

In a mixed gender system there will always be compromise you have to work out 1) what is safe for you to present to the public
2) what can you get away with modifying before it leads to public questioning of your gender (eg no one would notice if you were wearing girls underwear but is your community a place where you could get away with wearing a kilt?)
3) how much is everyone willing to compromise ( eg would the boys be ok with you growing a top knot hairstyle. When you front the hair can be down and flowing and feminine and when they are out it can be in a manly bun. Are the boys fussed about their leg hair? Would they be ok with you shaving it. Is there a slightly more floral aftershave that you could wear or is having facial hair a must for the boys to feel attached to the body?)

Until all members of a system are in agreement changes to the gender you present to the public should be small. Dont flip from male presenting to female presenting. Instead look for male equvalents of female activities to affirm your gender. "Metrosexuals" of the early 2000s (think David beckham) use male make up, there are plenty of tutorials on YouTube on how to do natural make up for men. Very few people will be able to tell you are wearing makeup but you will have had the gender affirming process of applying make up.

Hi!

Thank you both for replying.

I appreciate those references, Dwelt. I read them, and related pages I found through them. The one about the repression of crying I found particularly thought-provoking. It seems to explain some things. I shall look for the book.

Dwelt wrote:Everything you learn, when you have DID, can be tied to one precise alter, the one who "created" the neurones needed to learn it. The rest of the system will have more or less access to those neurones.

Makes sense. It also explains why, when I call on memories possessed by other alters, they are harder to access and seem to have weaker emotional valence.

Dwelt wrote:One solution I see would be working on using those skills when you are co-conscious with Jayce. It might help to "link" your part of the brain to them, until it becomes shared skills between you and Jayce.

Good idea!

Dwelt wrote:For gender and body dysphoria, the only thing that will really help you is healing trauma and working on dissociation on a daily basis.

Oh? I would not have suspected that would help. I thought the dysphoria simply a product of the mismatch between self-image and actuality.

Dwelt wrote:So, you are the only one who can really frame how to think of your gender; you as an alter, and you as "your whole system". But the two doesn't have to be the exact same thing.

This whole integration thing is still new to us. (And I do mean integration and not fusion.) We've only been attempting it for a couple years, and only starting to do well at it very recently. We have no idea what being integrated yet multiple will look like to us. I suppose, as you say, our sense of self as a system, and the answers to such questions, will develop as we heal and integrate.

Dwelt wrote:First thing : I've been where you are (trying to help, being surprisingly able to help

It is surprising! When locking me away to keep me from what our childhood was really like, Jayce was merely acting on some blind instinct. He had no idea that he was keeping part of us capable of being the thing that the system would someday need to heal us!

Dwelt wrote:Helping others to heal will not damage you. It isn't easy, and it will change you, but not damage you. It might seem like you're less stable, or weaker, or more tired. It's normal. You are sharing your skills, your abilities etc. with the rest of your system, so they can learn from you what it is to be happy, to feel safe. Sharing isn't easy, but it will help you all in the long run.

That is good to hear. The instability and weakness were worrying me. I was kind of afraid it meant I was doing badly.

Dwelt wrote:It's because I've taken care of everyone inside, helped them to go through their pain, etc. that right now, we don't qualify for PTSD and DID diagnosis anymore. We've healed 99% of our traumas, and we're all pretty happy with our life and ourselves. We have only one trauma left to heal, which means our life is almost totally free of flashback.

Yay! Congratulations!

We had mostly resigned ourselves to never being able to heal. Lately, we have begun to dream it could be possible.

Dwelt wrote:About the front, things that might helps are grounding technics,

OK.

Dwelt wrote:Maybe working on that would be more effective for you?

Helping from the inside is what we tried before. It wasn't nearly as effective as what I can accomplish for them in the front. At the moment, it seems to be what they require from me.

ViTheta wrote:Hi Lily. I'm Violette and welcome to the forum.

Hi Violette! Good to meet you!

ViTheta wrote:We're a system of 26

4 is complicated enough for me. How do you manage?

ViTheta wrote:We're also autistic

So are we. Well, not the Wolf. Autism is not really a wolf thing. He has an animal's mind, for the most part. I have seen a lot of people with both, in my researches. It would be interesting to see if there is a statistical correlation.

ViTheta wrote:Often users of the forum use Trigger Warning: (label) to give warning.

I will try to use this and the T thing. Changing language use is surprisingly difficult for me. Part of how autism presents in me. I can't incorporate new terminology unless my brain understands it fully, including the unstated implications and such. My brain can't put it into the flow of writing or speech until I do.

ViTheta wrote:Our T has a little experience with DID but mostly deals with autism, and we got really lucky as finding T's who know about DID and can help are difficult to find.

Mine had no real knowledge or experience of either. Yet she went out and did some serious research, demonstrated that she really learned some things, and has been a real help ever since, including some rather brilliant;y creative and effective ideas. I really got lucky when I got assigned her.

ViTheta wrote:Part of it is getting used to a body that isn't like yours so you're constantly over or under shooting things.

A good point. In the inner world, I'm a good 6 to 8 inches shorter than this body.

ViTheta wrote:If it helps you specifically front, look at acquiring things that will make you more comfortable in the body even if it means you can only wear them around the house. I am certain that others could make recommendations regarding that.

I have been wearing some costume jewelry at home. Minor and non-obvious changes to clothing. It helps. Hyde has been telling me that I really should get a skirt or something, that as I am so easily overwhelmed by the others at present, it could help "solidify" me.

I have decided to paint a self portrait of how I look in the inner world. I like painting, and maybe it will help.

ViTheta wrote:Wordy is ok. You write as much or as little as you need to. I'm not going to add anything more than Dwelt did regarding the healing/clinical side of this, but I am going to offer my sympathies and understanding. It isn't easy being host.

Thank you! It's good to hear!

ViTheta wrote:I hope you'll come back and talk more. It sometimes helps to just know you're not alone.

I will. Social interaction is not generally my thing. (Shocking in an autistic, I know.) But I think I need to get to know people like me in this way. And it's nice to have a conversation where I don't have to spend hours explaining everything!

I appreciate the help and advice from both of you very much. Or all of you, perhaps I should say. It has been helpful. Good to get to know you!

All the best,
Lily

And a new reply is made while I was posting my last reply. Hi Eliseahorse! Good to meet you!

Eliseahorse wrote:To help you get comfortable genderwise while you front without isolating others might I suggest gender affirming underwear?

Already started the practice, but thank you for the advice! It is a noticeable help.

Eliseahorse wrote:We avoid mirrors

Yeah, learning to do that.

Eliseahorse wrote:how much is everyone willing to compromise ( eg would the boys be ok with you growing a top knot hairstyle. When you front the hair can be down and flowing and feminine and when they are out it can be in a manly bun. Are the boys fussed about their leg hair? Would they be ok with you shaving it. Is there a slightly more floral aftershave that you could wear or is having facial hair a must for the boys to feel attached to the body?)

A good point. There may be areas of compromise. It's not an easy subject to work out, though, as so much of our image has been built to keep people away, and therefore based on looking intimidating. Not sure how much of that we can let go, though we know we need to. It's a process.

As to the specifics: the top knot won't work. I have Japanese family and was brought up kind of adjacent to Japanese culture, though we are not ourselves Japanese. My nieces have told me the modern top knot look comes from the samurai thing, and I parse my sense of politeness to my Japanese family to include observing the old taboo that only those of the samurai caste my wear the topknot.

The leg hair is a good idea. I may try it. But I am hirsute all over. It works for the Wolf. Not so much for me. The facial hair is a must for the guys. It's part of their self image, as well as the intimidation thing. And, even if I could convince them to shave, we grow it fast. We get the Don Johnson fuzzy look within 8 hours of shaving. I did, though, compromise with them on length. I now cut it close to my face, instead of the Gandalf-y thing it had been. At least I don't feel it or see it out of the corners of my eyes, now! Can't do the aftershave thing, either. All aftershaves, colognes, and perfumes smell like industrial runoff to us. We have no idea why people are so enamored of them.

There may, though, be other compromises we could make. Thanks for getting me thinking along those lines.

Eliseahorse wrote:"Metrosexuals" of the early 2000s (think David beckham) use male make up, there are plenty of tutorials on YouTube on how to do natural make up for men. Very few people will be able to tell you are wearing makeup but you will have had the gender affirming process of applying make up.

I'm in my 50s, I remember the metrosexual craze. I used to love Queer Eye for the Straight Guy. Very different than the show it is today, though. Not that today's is bad.

That is intriguing. I shall think about it. But it may not work on me. I have a ridiculously male body. Broad shoulders. Muscular. Relatively short legs. Very tall. The metrosexual look may not work on me in any degree. But I should at least think about it.

Thank you for all your ideas! Good to meet you!

All the best,
Lily

HI welcome... I think its alot harder if the body is male but there are female alters.

Our body is female most alters are female but there are a couple are more what would have been classed as 'tomboy' when we were kids and accepted as that up to a certain age... (probably considered gender-neutral or something these days) when we were pushed to behave and dress more like 'a young lady' they stopped fronting..until we left home and could buy them comfortable clothes for just hanging around at home in...of course the host didn't realise at the time.

I think these days it is not so unusual for men to have longer hair. I see several comedians on TV that have long hair. There's a scottish one famous for his long red hair! But what about mid/shoulder length if they don't want really long? it could be long enough for you to put it up but not too long for the guys to leave it down? Look at online at unisex hair cuts/styles and see if you can agree on anything?

We like 'The Mountain' T-shirts with animals on as we all like animals ..have some with dogs, some with wild animals,some black, some lighter coloured. Bobby and Kit have a couple of Zelda themed T-shirts and a Hoodie. They accept the body is female but like to go for a look where you can't tell immediately ...kind of like the teenage kid dressed in black with long hair that you cant tell from a distance whether they're boy or a girl! They prefer winter too when we have to have more clothes on - as we're always cold! - so our chest isn't immediately visible under winter clothes. (we don't wear low cut tops or vests either even in summer). Fortunately we're in the Northern hemisphere so cold weather is common! (not so good for the arthritis though!)

We buy more feminine tops for the rare occasion we get to go out but still wear trousers, fortunately as we have mobility issues people don't expect us to wear heeled shoes (as we wouldn't be able to walk in them to transfer on crutches). Wear light foundation to cover scars/blemishes but say we're allergic to eyeshadow/mascara makes our eyes water constantly and a shiny flavoured lip balm. (it quickly wears off anyway if out eating or drinking). Since the onset of pandemic we've only visited sibling at his house for dinner anyway.

It's harder if you have to go out to work and wear a specific uniform but maybe you can agree on some free time for you to come out (if you do have to go to work) and wear something you like? ..eg if you're always the one in the body when you go to bed and wake up maybe you can find some nice PJ's or loungewear/comfies you like? ..or just at weekends? etc obviously if you live alone this is going to be easier than if you house share or have family who live with you (who don't know).

Jay

JayceSystem wrote:Hi Violette! Good to meet you!

It's nice to meet you as well. I know this is all confusing and a bit difficult at times.

JayceSystem wrote:

ViTheta wrote:We're a system of 26

4 is complicated enough for me. How do you manage?

It can be difficult at times. We are trying to make room for everyone even now and see to the needs of those of us who have different needs. Aurora, who is 12, has problems walking and moving so we had to buy her a cane. We've bought different stim items for each of us as well. It's still a lot to deal with some days. Not all of us have trauma

JayceSystem wrote:So are we... I have seen a lot of people with both, in my researches. It would be interesting to see if there is a statistical correlation.

Most of the systems we know are autistic. Any neurodiversity will permeate a system as well. All of us in our system are autistic, but have varying degrees of how we express it.

JayceSystem wrote:

ViTheta wrote:Part of it is getting used to a body that isn't like yours so you're constantly over or under shooting things.

A good point. In the inner world, I'm a good 6 to 8 inches shorter than this body.

I'm about an inch or two shorter than the body, and Leila is about an inch taller. It's harder on all the younger alters as they can be so much shorter than the body. Additionally, the body dysphoria can be worst for those of us in the system who aren't human in form. I mentioned having wings, horns and a tail. I have a demonic appearance in the Inner World. Pretty and feminine, but still demonic. Only five of us see ourselves as human.

The 'funny' part is that we can still feel the parts that aren't there when we move or stretch. It's sometimes difficult to stay focused on being the front.

JayceSystem wrote:

ViTheta wrote:If it helps you specifically front, look at acquiring things that will make you more comfortable in the body even if it means you can only wear them around the house. I am certain that others could make recommendations regarding that.

I have been wearing some costume jewelry at home. Minor and non-obvious changes to clothing. It helps. Hyde has been telling me that I really should get a skirt or something, that as I am so easily overwhelmed by the others at present, it could help "solidify" me.

I have decided to paint a self portrait of how I look in the inner world. I like painting, and maybe it will help.

That will probably help a lot. We commissioned a friend to do portraits of some of us in the system. And if you want to buy a skirt to wear around the house, that's not a bad idea.

I'm glad you've found this little community. Take care,
Vi

TheTriForce wrote:HI welcome...

Hello to you too!

We actually already had long hair. We were born in the early 70s, when "real men" had long hair and long beards. I guess that's where the male parts learned to set our looks. In fact, I may trim it a bit. My hair, on the inner world body, is only shoulder length.

TheTriForce wrote:eg if you're always the one in the body when you go to bed and wake up maybe you can find some nice PJ's or loungewear/comfies you like?

Ooh, that's a good idea.

ViTheta wrote:It can be difficult at times. We are trying to make room for everyone even now and see to the needs of those of us who have different needs.

Wow. You all must know each other and function together very well to manage it.

ViTheta wrote:Additionally, the body dysphoria can be worst for those of us in the system who aren't human in form. I mentioned having wings, horns and a tail.

And that's not something you can compromise with or help ameliorate as easily as the differences of a simple gender mismatch. I am sorry. Has it gotten better for you? Or have you just learned to live with it? If I may ask. My apologies if I am overstepping my bounds.

ViTheta wrote:The 'funny' part is that we can still feel the parts that aren't there when we move or stretch.

The Wolf can feel a muzzle, claws, and tail. But our large, hairy body is a close match already, and people always have said we look like a werewolf anyway.

ViTheta wrote:That will probably help a lot. We commissioned a friend to do portraits of some of us in the system. And if you want to buy a skirt to wear around the house, that's not a bad idea.

That's cool. Again, my apologies if I overstep. (I'm not even good at interacting with normal types, never mind those more unique. I don't really know the rules.) But, if it is possible, could we see that painting? It would be cool to see what you all look like.

So, as to the skirt thing, how do you tell what size skirt you take?

Hi and welcome to the forums!

My ADHD is doing too much shenanigans at the moment for me to answer in details so I'll just do what I can. ALSO, check the link in my signature for the ressources thread you'll find websites and book references to help you, one of my faves is "Coping with trauma related dissociation" as well as "Healing the fragmented selves of trauma survivors".

JayceSystem wrote:When I call on memories possessed by other alters, they are harder to access and seem to have weaker emotional valence.

Exactly. The emotions and the facts of the event are dissociated and differently accessible. Some alters are overwhelmed with the emotions while others are completely cut from them. On the short term it helps to carry on with your life after the hurt or to bear with the hurt, on the long term it causes trauma flashbacks, trauma triggers and a numbing of all emotions. But learning to feel the feels again, baby step by baby step, takes time. "Coping with trauma related dissociation" explains how to do this whithout triggering yourself.

JayceSystem wrote:I thought the dysphoria simply a product of the mismatch between self-image and actuality.

It does but here you need to account for the dissociation. The self-image is built upon what your sense of "me" sees as autobiographic memories experienced from a 1st person point of view. When you are dissociated you have many "me" with many pov so they can build many self-images. Personally I have some sort of fairy dragon/unicorn/qilin, a Pokémon, a faun, an angel, among other non-human identities. Their activity causes me to experience a lot of body dysphoria as well as phantom limbs related to their body shape. Same goes for gender and gender dysphoria.

I decided over a masculinization transition because this is what all of the me wanted, especially the girliest girls. (Except some of the cis guys because they were "hallucinating" a cis masc body so much they did not realize the physical body was not a match xD ) I knew it was the right thing to do because each new step in the process made me jump ahead into the integration process. It made me also realize in restrospect that I always knew I masculine-aligned nonbinary and that one of the reasons I started to dissociate was to manage gender dysphoria and create fem alters to be able to pretend to be the girl society wanted me to be. Which is why, for me, the fem alters were the ones wanting the most having the masculine transition. Especially the one looking a lot like Jessica Rabbit. She was like "We need to be a man dressed in skirts and makeup. PERIOD." She was right. I'm glad I dared to keep doing the makeup.

But other people have other stories. Dwelt is an example. I know of someone who is agender as a whole but with a huge variety of gender identities in the system. The whole Pride Parade in a single brain.

That's why it's best to wait untill you have enough communication and stabilization inside your system before deciding upon transition stuff that are difficult or impossible to undo (changing your papers, hormones, surgeries). Everything clothes, prosthetics, tucking, body hair, make-up, daily-use name/nickname, pronouns, mannerisms... is easy to change so you can go crazy with this! Have fun and explore!

JayceSystem wrote:That is good to hear. The instability and weakness were worrying me. I was kind of afraid it meant I was doing badly.

Do not hesitate to check "Coping with..." because it's a whole book about how to stay stable while starting to heal the whole system. I love it. I sleep on it. I dream of it. I beath it. I eat it. I... you get the point. xD Do not hesitate to go through the index to focus on the aspects you need at any moment rather than reading it cover to cover. If you want to read it cover to cover I would advise to take at least one week per chapter. The book was designed this way.

JayceSystem wrote:We had mostly resigned ourselves to never being able to heal. Lately, we have begun to dream it could be possible.

Yay! Congrats! Healing looks tough when you focus on the end goal. It looks manageable when you focus on the next step only. If you do only the next step each day, you'll make more progress than if you focus on the end goal only. (Also works to keep on going on a project when you have ADHD or any other thing that causes executive dysfunction such as anxiety, phobias, depression, dissociation etc. It is one of the tools that helps managing executive dysfunction.)

JayceSystem wrote:

ViTheta wrote:We're a system of 26

4 is complicated enough for me. How do you manage?

Communication, communication, communication. Step by step, and grounding, and "Coping with..." and "Healing the fragmented...". Once you have stabilized the everyday life, you can stabilize the inside, ground everyone, the communication opens, the organization falls into place and it becomes just everyday stuff.

The most numerous active alters I had at any moment was 15 I think, though some of them I count as "one" but they were more of a swarm of dozens or hundreds of fragments acting together under the same identity, like a swarm of sparrows or a school of fish. Now I am roughly more or less fused or rather, all of the me are under the same umbrella identity but I can "look inside of the whole me" to check what's up when I feel something is not okay. Usually it'll be Pride (child alter) pointing out something is wrong and I need to do some self-care stuff. It's very rare that one of my facets is active enough that I feel an intense identity shift. But they are still all of the me and all of the many shades of me. I like to keep memorabilia around that remind me of all of the shades of me - but it's not an obligation, some do not want/need this and it's okay!

JayceSystem wrote:

ViTheta wrote:We're also autistic

So are we. Well, not the Wolf. Autism is not really a wolf thing. He has an animal's mind, for the most part. I have seen a lot of people with both, in my researches. It would be interesting to see if there is a statistical correlation.

If the brain is autistic all of the alters are autistic. And yes there is a correlation between autism and dissociation and you'll have a litterature review here: https://did-research.org/comorbid/devel ... -disorders

Autistic people, like you, me, ViTheta, most of this forum really, are more sensitive to stress and more prone to dissociate to manage the stress. We are also more often victim of bullying, childhood abuse/neglect, all sorts of violence really. This is because our "odd" mannerism make us fall inside of the "uncanny valley" for non-autistic individuals to they react with hostility and violence. The legends of changelings come mostly from autism: the behavior of changelings and what upsets them is consistent with autism.

JayceSystem wrote:Changing language use is surprisingly difficult for me. Part of how autism presents in me. I can't incorporate new terminology unless my brain understands it fully, including the unstated implications and such. My brain can't put it into the flow of writing or speech until I do.

Putting a very visible TRIGGER WARNING [stuff] label (as well as END TRIGGER) helps the readers of your post to ready themselves for the things to come and also, to choose not to read if they are in a bad day. We do this to help protect each-others on the board from what could be upsetting.

T for therapist is not an obligation. It's merely a shortcut because we write the word so often sometimes that it's more convenient to shorcut in T. Which is confusing for me because I also use it as a shortcut for Testosterone. xD But the context helps to understand because I've yet to see a vial of testosterone give trauma therapy sessions.

JayceSystem wrote:

ViTheta wrote:Our T has a little experience with DID but mostly deals with autism, and we got really lucky as finding T's who know about DID and can help are difficult to find.

Mine had no real knowledge or experience of either. Yet she went out and did some serious research, demonstrated that she really learned some things, and has been a real help ever since, including some rather brilliant;y creative and effective ideas. I really got lucky when I got assigned her.

A real keeper! YAY!

JayceSystem wrote:Hyde has been telling me that I really should get a skirt or something.

May I suggest a kilt? They are masc clothing that look like a skirt. You can also match the pattern/tartan to a kind of pride you wish to display. There are a lot of modern regional tartans, some themed around work related things (like firefighter) so there is a lot of choice. (I am totally objective and not at all a kilt wearer myself *innocent* )