A New Start (the way forwards)

ViTheta wrote:

TheTriForce wrote:We feel we are noticing a split more and more in the DID community towards not encouraging people to see their alters as individuals, even from people on here who once had diverse systems themselves when Kit first joined here.

We're not entirely certain what you mean. However, we aren't all that part of the wider community and we've pulled back a lot from posting or reading here after Octavia and Charlie got upset. We certainly see each other as individuals still. We actually struggle with not seeing each other as individuals.

Violette

Hi Violette

We weren't meaning you in particular. I'm sorry if you thought I was meaning you.

We also struggle with not seeing each other as individuals, we seem to have a small group still present who have a very strong 'sense of self'. Some smaller fragments have integrated with another they felt closest to but it was their choice. Some have temporarily taken a break to sleep for a bit due to current stresses but we're very sure they will be back at some point!

Our system is definitely evolving to try and work out who are the best combination for being 'up front' or 'internal work'. ...some still want the option though to be able to visit and post as themselves and its just a shame when DID spaces are the only spaces they can really 'post as themselves', that in some places we are being told only the person who created the account/hosts the body can post.

All that leads to being more deceptive and just not posting a name , it won't stop different ones posting! ...but then also the 'support boards' become no different to the outside world, where anyone fronting has to be who the outside world thinks 'the body' is! (ie the legal name whether they identify with that name or not) ...and its just a shame....

I don't know if the admin in those cases think they are somehow 'curing people' by forcing only one to consistently front, all they will succeed in doing is driving people 'underground' or them joining other communities where alters can relabel themselves Tulpa or 'walk-ins' to talk to others who also believe they are 'extras' in some way to the one hosting the body/life.

Some of ours already only feel comfortable posting in such groups to speak 'as themselves' so they're not repeatedly told they're all the same person!

Anyway..hope things are ok for you, we do check to see if you have posted about how you're getting on, but don't want you to feel 'pestered' to respond if you're in a place you don't feel you can.

Take Care

Lily

We should have been a bit clearer. We actually struggle with the idea that we aren't separate.

It sounds like the admins are trying to cut down on the work that they face. On the Discord servers we're on where they use proxy bots to allow systems to post individually, we all have to have an indicator of our system (so, like for each of our alters' proxies have our 'system name' in their visible name). In public fora, it makes sense.

We've realized we do something similar, btw. Depending on a lot of things, we have certain alters 'on stage' all working together, but it changes from day to day. As the host, I get to be the one on stage or in the wings the majority of the time while the others come and go. It's how we keep some continuity of memory (but that isn't 100% going to happen all the time.

We check in on here from time to time. We have a strong sensitivity to being 'yelled at' and it may take a while before we're more active.

Take care,
Violette

ViTheta wrote:We should have been a bit clearer. We actually struggle with the idea that we aren't separate.

Violette

I've confused myself now...lol! That's what I thought you meant when I read the last post... I basically meant .... for some of us we can 'only see ourselves as seperate from each other' as if different members of the same family and definitely not 'a past version of me' Those ones have not integrated and really struggle to though can voluntarily blend to co-host for shorter periods giving whoever is hosting different skills and memories temporarily.

I'm not sure about other systems but for us ...a later host may see ones that came before them as past versions of them, but for ones from further back we can also only see ones before us in that way. eg I was originally child host between 11-13yrs old .... I can understand that Bobby (in child form) and LS were past versions of 'me' as they are younger and came before me, but ones that came after me (Yuna, Jay, Sue, Kit etc) I can't feel a connection unless someone who was also a later host blends with me and I can connect to their memories to see 'us' from 'their perspective'

Kit has been a protector for much of later life so I can 'look back' and see the whole past life from a one person perspective (theirs) ...but only when they are blended with me, same for Bobby in adult mode.

Jess carries some of Maddie's memories which gives me access to some of our mid 30's to late 40's memories for the times Kit wasn't out. (mostly relating to our last dog so we have our dogs full life memories from puppy to old age).

Thea disappeared before her memories could be transferred (or before we knew how to) so I don't have access to them or any of where Thea's and Maddie's life overlapped (eg friends from Thea's era visiting Maddie believing they were visiting the same person) except for our RL friend 'Jodie' because it was usually either Jay or Sue hosting for those times and Sue is still active inside (& has already shared her memories with me) and Jay is integrated within me.

I believe Kit deleted those memories when 'Maddie's friend' told her we were no longer thier friend or just didn't past them onto the next host...either way I have no memories I just know maddie 'had a friend 'but find I have no memories of any time spent with them.

As the 'newest host' - other than my own original memories (11-13) I seem to carry only the memories the others wanted to keep moving forwards.

Lily

Shorter note....after commenting on another post..we have just realised that we're always going to switch frequently while ever we have the constant Tinnitus to deal with.

We've always had sound sensitivity from a very early baby (prob due to the autism even before any social awareness developed) so having a constant sound that can't be turned off at all or even reduced other than putting hearing aids in (so replacing one sound with another slightly easier to cope with) is like torture and is probably also the cause of the permanent chronic fatigue symptoms.

The T was never this bad throughout earlier life though..it has only been these last couple of years so its either caused by the drop in estrogen due to peri-menopause, the covid vaccines or we think we had covid once which at the time host (Yuna at the time) thought was flu/ear infection..

We're still trying everything we can think of to get some kind of reduction... 'the good side' is intermittant so there's a trigger and that side can sometimes be so quiet its not noticeable...'the bad side' is constant and screeching and nothing other than putting the hearing aid with white noise constantly hissing into that side reduces it...even then we still sometimes have the feeling of it coming from the back of the head and sounding like a 'distant beehive' or something! (we do have arthritis in neck/shoulders after years of self propelling manual wheelchair about and using crutches)

..occasionally it will suddenly switch to a 'pure tone' like you get in hearing tests before switching back to the 'white noise' hissing/buzzing type noise. ..we've never worked out why. This morning its screeching intensely both sides and I'm really feeling I need a break from it..I can understand why some 'singleton' people get driven to the point of no longer being able to cope with it and wanting to 'unalive themselves'..its a frequent topic on Tinnitus forums!

The ability to switch so 'someone else' can take the front to cope with it for a while is what saves us from being driven to those levels of desperation too. ..as long as the Tinnitus is constantly with us then we will always be a multiple system to counteract the effects and to be able to 'keep going' for our furbabies. (ie Mr Woof)


Lily


p.s actually that wasn't 'that short!' ...sorry!

I went off duty shortly after typing this and Bobby and Jess have been out most of the weekend together playing on a new game they downloaded. They seem to find it easier to cope with the Tinnitus levels.

it was quieter first thing but the volume seems to be going up again. Jess has offered to stay blended with me at the front as seems to have an higher tolerance to it, she says its because she was canine before so is used to hearing more things especially higher pitched stuff and being able to filter out what she could hear from miles away and what was a noise in her immediate environment.

Kit joins me to co-host today too, she has been 'away' doing work with others on the inside. Things are more settled and the ones that were upset previously seem to have calmed down a bit.


Lily

We have come to relaise that Demand Avoidance has always played a big part in the formation of new alters for us. I think that's why Bobby has never been able to host (in front of other people) since the early days. From their perspective they were rejected when it was decided we were 'not normal enough' and had to be taught to be or be sent away to be locked away in a 'special school'.

The selective mutism may not have actually been that but because it was a demand to speak in school and even though I (as Sophie back then) was not Bobby directly.. (I had been created by Bobby, LS and Phoenix blending then my part splitting off) the DA even though 'diluted' was still there to some extent and I still found it difficult to speak in some circumstances too.

Whether it would actually be classed as PDA though I'm not sure as its still a farily new diagnosis and still not recognised by all and of course from perspective of others looking at us over our life we may not appear to have avoided demands as we did attend college, work and university 'successfully', though Bobby knows it wasn't them that attended as back then we had no idea of DID and memories were not shared. ..so blackouts did occur (by external hosts anyway) or Bobby got the memories from Thea via Sue or Jay acting as an 'in between' as the switch would have been less obvious. That way they gained the knowledge without having to go through the demands or emotion themself.

I think the role of Phoenix was to pass the infornation on to Bobby after filtering out the emotion and anything else B wouldn't like or consider irrelevant too.

I'm not sure if the physical issues are all purely somatoform as fluctuating thyroid levels would have created different energy levels etc ... certainly some were and some seemed exclusive to specific alters.

Whether that was to prevent external alters taking the life in a direction Bobby didn't want I'm not sure? (particuarly when younger when there may have been a pressure to get married and have kids like everyone else did and communication between the inside and outside was not good).

So we now understand how we all came to be, though even in adult form with a greatly reduced social life Bobby finds it impossible to be the full time host.

When they front alone they have no social desire whatsoever, They seem to thrive on being 'the secret self' that survived 50+ yrs against all the odds If they allow a blending its more usually one of the changelings who takes a form Bobby can relate to (which is why we have a lot of changelings in animal form inside) unless they need a human host for a particular reason. (eg if they want to slip out on the scooter someone else has to be the one 'other people' would see sat on it driving down the road etc until we get to their favourite location and check its all clear for them to take the front).

so with that reason in mind I think we will always be 'more than one' even if other social ones eventually integrate and 'I' become the permanent EH (external Host) as 'one self' (from the outside world perspective who they see as the bodies personality) there will always be Bobby inside and the Tulpa's they created too (who are not 'versions of me')

I believe they are result of Bobby trying to process the concept of what happens to us when our bodies die given they are all representations of people/animals who were loved by Bobby and did die (in real life).

and by the way ..Bobby does undertsand now that we would not be capable of living alone if our parents hadn't pursued so intensely the goal of us being able to undertand why we needed to be (or at least appear to be) like everyone else to 'fit in'. In the end it allowed B to slip though life unnoticed and unchallenged and still be here many decades later, the irony of this is not lost on them! We're all well aware of what the alternative could have been!

so even though to outsiders looking in our life doesn't seem much, we all know its better than the alternative ....just having the freedom to slip out with a dog we own when no-one else is about is more than we could have had if we'd been institutionalised from a really young age or remained stuck in that unit after the breakdown.


Lily

After answering a post on another board we realised something important..I won't quote the entire post but an important part was referring to "Maddie' - our last host who was cut off from the inside world and had no idea of the others. ...seen purely as a 'social mask' by the 'insiders'


"I think our last host was more scared by it when we were one host totally unaware of the others so thinking all stuff like 'loss of time' could be something like dementia and being scared of being 'locked up' because the inside parts were scared to reveal themselves to the external host. I think this was the time the dissociation was the most harmful, not when we knew of each other and had connected and shared memories between us.

Even though some still see themselves as completely seperate they realise that if we put all our individual memories together (of the times they were out) they collectively make the memories of one persons life"


We are more functional as a team now even though we no longer have an host that can deny existence of us because they genuinely have no idea others exist.

Even though we disagree on whether all of us are alters or some of us are spirits/changelings/Tulpa (and they visit different groups according to their beliefs on who/what they believe they are) we have now (finally!) all come to an agreement on the new 'official persona' of the external [legal name] host to move forwards with. This will be created by myself and Kate (not Kit who's a different alter) temporarily blended for face-to face interaction in the 'outside world'.

Yuna and Sue have finally integrated with this-me self (Lily). I now have most of 'Team S' integrated Little Susie and Bobby are the only ones left from the era we were all known under the original birth name who have not integrated. ..(though Bobby never identified with that name).

LS has chosen to remain inside with Kate.

Kenny has been 'let out of stasis'.. a new changeling has become 'lil P' for LS. These two will remain more as npc-types, they are not expected to front or become aware of the 'outside world' and are seen by our system as Tulpa's that are not fully sentient and will only ever 'live inside'. Jody is still on the inside so LS has a little best friend inside with her too.

Some have chosen to remain 'secret selves' they do not feel comfortable been acknowledged in/by the outside world in general and we respect that. They are up-to-date with and aware of the real world situation in the 'Here & Now' They are ok with being acknowledged in specific DID or Tulpa groups though by their 'system names' (and our legal name/photo /location etc is not used). We don't go on any social media where 'real names' are expected to be used.

Mainly they will come out to do shifts up front when no-one (no external people) is about, to give me a break from being host 24/7 as we now know from past experience that the sensory overload becomes too much for one to be host 24/7. However we are co-conscious and do co-host so this reduces dissociation and memory/time loss between the main fronters switching over (or joining the front for temporary blends).

one last quite big thing for us....Bobby is starting to understand (after reading my last post) that Demand Avoidance itself can 'become a demand' to go out of your way to avoid things. They will still probably use it to get out of stuff they really do not want to do but can also see it has also prevented them being present for things they really did want to do and missed out on experiencing 'in the first person'.

Anyway hopefully now the system will settle down as everyone has finally decided where they want to be as the peri-menopause stage comes to an end.


Lily

I strongly feel instructed to write about a new way our system will be working for the future. I feel this is coming from 'Bobby' ...I noticed it after reading back what I had just typed on another post and on another forum so far today.


Bobby no longer feels that name suits who they currently are, they wish to reclaim the name they changed our birth name to but obviously we can't use that on here!

As a system we are still functioning as a Tri-force....in that the top of the pyramid is the 'natal self' the soul originally born into the body which would be 'Bobby' given they were the most autistic and true self before any interventions (ie the ABA therapy which created the 'social masks' to 'fit in with normal' - that would be all 'versions of self' from Little Susie onwards)..

The supporting triangles underneath would be ...on one side 'the social mask alters' and the other side ...'The Changelings' ..I am not sure which of past changelings were actual alters that were splits from "child Bobby' and which were deliberately created by them as 'imaginary companions' that eventually developed sentience over the years..effectively accidentally becoming Tulpa's long before any of us had any understanding of what one was!


Whilst we do believe that the 'original trauma' for Bobby of experiencing constant medical intervention from a very young age and just being autistic caused the dissociation and 'splitting' into different versions of self ..... we now don't think we have DID but do definitely have some kind of dissociation disorder on top of the autism.

Given that most alters have been 'versions of self' over the years with many been unaware of each other (amnesia between different social hosts fronting) but all (originally) seeing the body/legal name as theirs (at the time they were actively hosting) for the vast majority of our life we think some type of OSDD is more likely.

Only Bobby had the ability to take over the front at any point regardless of who was the social mask at the time and also had access to everyone's memories with no time missing from their viewpoint. They may have essentially been some kind of early 'Gatekeeper' before we had any understanding of what one was.

We believe the mood swings from peri-menopause have just amplified the issue because of the affect on the autism too, given the last time our system was so erratic was 'going through puberty' there seems to be a link!

There may be a new host created if more integrate by the time we reach the one year mark.

Lily

HI

This is Jess, those who know us may notice we have changed our signature (again!)

This is because 'Bobby' has decided they only identify as the official legal name which we can't say on here so we are now refering to who you knew as 'Bobby' as Host of the body (HB).

If myself, Kit or Lily speak of 'the host' we are essentially talking about 'Bobby' as they were the first born into it and the one who changed the legal name to what they wanted it to be!

There have been arguments inside about who we are and what we are and different alters are trying to take over and go off in their own directions in the hope that if they are the ones dominant when we reach menopause and hormones settle down they will be the ones that get to stay out front and take our life in the direction they want based on what they believe.

So we are trying a different way of working in the hope it is less disruptive and will work regardless of what an individual beliefs (about who they are) is ..,,each of us (Jess, Kit & Lily) are essentially like a 'shell host' that others can blend with. We will each have different areas we deal with, others can join us (blend temporarily) to give us the knowledge to deal with a given situation/job. It will be closer to how we used to work before only this time we are aware of each other so there should not be amnesia between different ones coming out to complete a specific job then leaving.

Officially there is only one host ....the one recognised as being born into the body (ie 'Bobby') They had to have been the first! ...as they have always been the most autistic and the one who remembers being put through all the medical stuff and ABA therapy to be 'made normal'...all (currently existing) other alters definitely came after Bobby....therefore logically 'Bobby' must have been the first soul/personality into the body!. They have the earliest memories and the most memories throughout the entire life from being the gatekeeper for the many years no-one else knew of each other!

However they also still have the most difficulty with social & communication stuff (particuarly face to face) and still need the rest of us to help them 'get through life'.

Lily and Kate will still be doing external appointments. Lily may still post on here too. I'll be helping out more at the front too Between us there should eventually just appear to be 3 versions of host

a professional self- for official appointments
a public 'social mask' - as family, neighbours etc know 'us'
a secret self (at Host's request - they feel they need a version of self no-one else see's that can just enjoy existing in the moment without any external others -other than Mr Woof...knowing they exist!)


Jess

I (Lily) now hold the most parts integrated with me (all 'versions of self' between 11-19) I feel a little overwhelmed and not quite sure who this 'new version of me' is as an whole. We all identitifed with the birth name and being present (at some point) during that period of life.

LS has chosen to remain seperate inside at 6. Kate and Kenny take care of her and Jody and a version of little bro (as toddler) has been added. They are happily living out their lives on a Stardew-esque style inner world farm taking care of the very early fragments who have remained in animal form. I return there to help out, when I am not out front.

Alot of the time I now work with Jess when I am up front, she appears to be my 'under study' and is learning about fronting and helping with the daily routine. She mainly seems to remain in the background watching and learning.

Kit tends to remain in a protector/gatekeeper role in the background, but sometimes if we need Kate for something specific they swap places, so she can come out to help and Jess can continue to 'watch and learn' It appears Jess is being 'trained up' for a bigger future role in helping Host with outside life.

Lily