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dealing with perfectionism

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dealing with perfectionism

Postby birdsong87 » Sat Oct 30, 2021 12:36 pm

With perfectionism I don't mean wanting to make things perfect all the time, like an artist who never finishes the picture.
I mean a deep fear or making a mistake or failing, of being seen while you make a mistake, fear of punishment and rejection. A sense of not being good enough, if anyone would see the real me they would be disgusted, better to wear a mask. having gotten lost in this mask to the point that it cannot be taken off and there is fear of death at the attempt. talking about a level of shame that makes one hold back even their best work for fear of it being seen by others because it would feel exposed and vulnerable. or avoid making any decisions in life and just drift.
We have been thinking about shame, hiding, being seen, mistakes, courage for disagreement, vulnerability etc for weeks now as a current project in our therapy work. of yourse it is deeply rooted in trauma

I would be interested how you handle these moments when basically shame has you in its grip and all your actions are just about trying to hide yourself and your shame
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Re: dealing with perfectionism

Postby sum1 » Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:23 pm

Try letting yourself be free to be merely human.

For me, perfectionism and lack of self-confidence was (maybe is) part of pathological narcissism. When I could not keep up the facade of living up to my excessive demands of myself, I used to feel shame, without even knowing why.

How I got over that (mostly) was through free association, a kind of self-psychoanalysis. Rather than lie on the couch talking, I was writing an essay about truth and delusion, when suddenly something hit me and I felt the relief of my lifetime -- that was the realisation that it's all right to be merely human, not having to be some kind of übermensch or god. Alas, I've been unable to achieve anything like this again, so there is not much I can do to help anyone else do it.

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Re: dealing with perfectionism

Postby Purplesky » Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:10 pm

this has been a huge struggle for us over the years. it sometimes still comes up pretty severe. it's taken a lot of work and reassurance from the psychiatrist that we are human, it's okay to make mistakes, we ARE good enough for ourselves, for this life, etc. there is no right or wrong way to be us, we need to accept all of us, good and not so good, etc.

self talk/talking to the ones who struggle more with it has helped a lot as well, things like we deserve to be known, seen, etc. and are imperfectly perfect.
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Re: dealing with perfectionism

Postby Amythyst » Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:56 pm

I think we experience some of this through viola and her writing. It's been over a year and a half since she started posting her stories online, she has numerous fans, a successful patreon, and is hoping to turn writing into a full-time job for us.

But she still gets stuck in a panic/anxiety loop sometimes about posting some stories. She worries people will hate the story and by extension, hate her. She worries about being judged and rejected.

Fortunately those fears usually pass after a few days or a week. And normally when it's happening, she'll talk to some of her friends about them. We're friends with a couple systems on Discord who are also authors and familiar with viola's stories. She'll talk to them and get reassurance and support from them. Likewise we help and support them when they're struggling.

Another thing we've done is started to collect the positive comments she receives. We'll screenshot comments and reviews and other positive feedback, and put it all in a folder on the computer so we can refer to it whenever the doubts and uncertanties and fear of judgement sets in. It's like a reminder that her stories are good and bring people joy.

I suppose to summarize, when those feelings get us we turn to our friends for support, and we have reminders that the thing we're worried about has been ok in the past. The feelings still come back, but we're usually able to shake free of them after a few days.
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Re: dealing with perfectionism

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:49 pm

For us, the shame is coming from a particular alter. So being aware that it's localized in her helps us get a little distance from the feeling.

But when it completely takes over, we don't handle it well--there's usually self-harm, and wanting to withdraw from other people. We have to deal with it the same way we deal with any of those "falling into the pit" episodes, and it can take awhile to crawl back out again.

We definitely have the feeling that people would be disgusted by us if they saw the "real" us--that has lessened somewhat with therapy, since we have been showing parts to him that we're ashamed of (mostly because they're so young). We cringe when we remember how we sounded when we spoke to him, but he doesn't seem disgusted or put off by them.

Another thing that has changed somewhat with therapy is that if we got positive feedback from the outside, it used to be that we would just disregard it. Someone who complimented us must not know what they're talking about, or some other extenuating circumstance that would explain their misguided evaluation of us or our work as good.

Now we're a little better able to take in compliments and positive evaluations and actually feel a little bit good about them, instead of disregarding them or feeling like we're now more likely to disappoint those people in the future.
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Re: dealing with perfectionism

Postby ArbreMonde » Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:42 am

There are a lot of different elements that helped us deal with perfectionnism and associated behaviors.

First, the song "Malfunction" by the band Steam Powered Giraffe, really helps us feel empowered while being imperfect at the same time. It's okay to not be perfect in the eyes of society. I'm alive and it is all that matters.

Second, realizing where the need for perfectionism comes from. For us it's a mix between the constant psychological abuse / gaslighting from the mother (nothing we did would ever be good enough for her... because SHE is nasty, NOT because WE are a failure) - the fear of never giving a good enough work (teachers at school always put the bar very high for us because we have a high IQ, never taking into account our neurological disabilities, dissociation, autism, social difficulties...) - the fear of missing out, forgetting something, being forgotten (we have some sort of compulsion of gathering "full collections" of things "just in case" because we used to need to fight the brother to get crumbs of what we needed, because our work was never perfect enough for the mother or the teachers at school, because the grandparents had traumas related to World War 2 and would keep on piling up things in their appartment "just in case", and I cannot count the amount of times we were actively forgotten somewhere by a group at school, in family gatherings, and so on). Therefore, part of the "I need to do it all and very quick" comes from an accumulation of all of this.

Third, realizing that perfectionism pushed too far can be disabling in an everyday life to say the least. Our first and only try at a full-time office job was a nightmare because we would spend hours on a little detail to later be scolded for "loosing precious company time therefore loosing precious money" on "things that do not matter". Later, we started working on our present-time self-made job and started sharing our drafts on our blog, waiting for everything to be perfect before selling it - only to discorver that people were using it with barely any credit, some people even making money off of OUR work. It taught us to assess when the job was good enough to stand on its own and be sold, even if it can still be refined - because everything can still be refined.

Fourth, seeing other people releasing imperfect stuff on the market and getting praised for it. We notice a lot the translation mistakes, typos, imperfections... in books and other stuff. When we go online to check for the reviews and commentaries, we barely find any bad ones regarding the imperfections, mostly good ones about the good things done. Heck, people were able to publish and be acclaimed for things we would never dare to show anyone so bad we think the stuff is. It puts things into perspective.

Fifth, how some of the french zetetic (the art of doubt and scientific methodology) YouTube persons behave towards mistakes and the like. They taught us to comment on the work, ideas and the behavior of people, rather than to judge the persons - making us more able to interact in a healthy way with people outside and inside of the system. They taught us to own our mistakes not in a "I am so ashamed" way but in a "Oopsie, made a mistake, here is what I was supposed to have said" or "Ooopsie, my bad, did not have the right source here, thanks for pointing out my mistake, I learnt what the real stuff was thanks to you guys" way. It was eye-opening. Mistakes are source of learning. Not in the way the mother used to yell at us and belittle us and telling to "learn something from it" but in the way that correcting the mistakes helps self-improvement.

Now, when we re-read our work, we focus on finding the typos, making sure things are in a logical order, asking others for help us figuring out what the logical fallacies and typos might be, and when it can stand on its own, it's labelled "good enough".

Does it help us get our point across? If yes, then it's "good enough" therefore it is "finished". There is no need to polish it over and over and over again if it is "good enough".

Same goes for answering forum threads. A few years ago when we were on forums or other social medias, we felt compelled to answer to each and every post, glued to the screen all day long in case we missed one and failed to our "duty". Now, before answering, we take the time to ask ourselves: "Is there anything I can answer that will be of help for the poster?" If the only thing we can do is answer for the sake of answering, it's better not to do it and save our time and energy for the posts where our answer can really make a difference. Sometimes, a few lines of moral support can make a difference. Sometimes, a wall of text like this one can make a difference. And when it is a few lines of support, it might not be perfect, but it is "good enough" to help the other person feel better, therefore it's a good job well done.

It does not need to be perfect in order to be important.
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Re: dealing with perfectionism

Postby birdsong87 » Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:52 pm

thanks for all your answers. we very much relate to the feeling of falling into the pit...
still trying to explore what is really happening and if maybe an additional part is involved.
we do so well most of the time. it isn't that we generally have low self-esteem. the worst shame is a triggered response and seems to exist next to all the coping skills we have and be unaffected by them.
we share a lot of the writing experience with viola and we too collect positive comments. :D
I think it is very clear that some of the 'don't show anything about yourself' was taught by abusers to protect themselves. the 'don't show the good stuff because it will get destroyed' was accidentally conditioned because that is what used to happen. we are so torn between all these different rules we have inside. it just makes it impossible to live freely. some stuff we dare to do anyway. other times it just knocks us into the pit. I think we need more time to observe what happens in these moments.
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