T - arrrrrrg!

ConcealDontFeel wrote:Even if we don't go again, we need a CLOSE *FOR US,* not for her. We've had too many people claim they are still in our lives, but don't engage with us, and it creates such extreme stress in our system because that door is not CLOSED, so we're always tempted to get back into the mess because we have NO ONE *AT ALL* in our lives so we can't let go of something without a clean ending. Hell, we've been desperate enough to even debate reaching out to people we ended a friendship over when she betrayed the hell out of us.

I can appreciate needing that finality. I have questioned my closing the door on things when other people won't- it has made me doubt if I was right doing that or not. Looking back, I was, but it took a long time to feel comfortable my decision was right. The feeling of not having anyone is an awful one- hugs. I know it's not quite the same, but there is always support on the forums here.

ConcealDontFeel wrote:We will never ever see another T if this doesn't work out and that's another reason. There's no way in heck we go through all this again. None whatsoever. We have a lot of particular needs and requirements that led us to this T already - we were EXTREMELY selective with her, down to even location because we will not go in the city we're in and we're not driving for hours into father off cities. We're not in a major city, nor is the city our current T is in. Major city is over an hour drive from here, even if there was someone.

Understandable. For a long time I was very definite I was done with therapy altogether. I needed time to feel ready to do do it for me and to try again. It took me quite a few years to get there though.

It is definitely a tough place to be in. Hugs if you'd like some.

Sorry, we did not get an alert about this reply. Good old php...

fireheart wrote:Since it is your system, this is information that you know best.

YES! THANK YOU! So good to be validated!!! She's making us doubt ourselves so much which just makes everything harder!

fireheart wrote:I've also been there with Ts, that they seem to think that one alter is most important. However, the treatment guidelines advice against this.

That's what we keep saying too! She keeps saying we're all important, but won't get off the idea that there's an "original," which she thinks is A just because she met A first and A fronted with her the most consistently because SHE DENIED THE DID. That doesn't make her any more real than the rest of us! And that is a HUGE sore spot in our system and our T pokes that when she does this.

fireheart wrote:Maybe the T thinks A is an ANP, because she didn't know about the others?

No, A knew about a few of us, named a few of us, but she would not accept we were alters, insisted we were not personalities, just intense emotional states...but that was never an accurate way to see the alters she did, even by her logic as only one ever "took over" in the sense of A having to watch the body act without being able to control it.

We think our T thinks this because A was the only one to see her for a year, while, since she stopped, we've been all over the map. We think the makes her see A as "the" original.

fireheart wrote:The trinity of trauma describes the following trinity: ignorance (ANPs), fragility (EPs) and control (usually EPs). Ignorance refers to how ANPs are often in denial and "ignore" trauma in order to continue to function in daily life.

EPs control? What about alters that carry no trauma and are best at functioning? We have told alters that are non-human "autopilots" if you will.

A is not ignorant of trauma, she carries trauma, but I am pretty sure she carries more recent, adult trauma, not any of our childhood trauma. And though we don't recall much in the way of details, we all know we grew up in an emotionally and physically abusive home with a lot of neglect.

For all of us who have fronted - awareness of any trauma is more like a story someone told us. We don't feel any emotional connection to them, and that includes A, but A is far more impacted than myself, or V or N with negative emotions. V, N, and myself are the highest functioning in terms of getting through the day-to-day. Maybe D is too...not sure - D is just a big brain.

fireheart wrote:The "orginal self" idea is mostly outdated. It seems that a substantial number of people with DID do not relate to it.

Thank you for verifying - that was our understanding. We don't know why EVERYTHING our T is doing to learn about DID keeps pointing to this model...but then she seems to think the guidelines support this too and...we just don't know what to say about that. She also seems to think structural dissociation theory supports the "original" model, but that is not our understanding - it's the entire point that NO ONE is born with a singular personality?

fireheart wrote:I don't even know what to say about A+others. Like, sure, true. But it's also X+others, and Y+others.

We mean that she treats A like A is some special unique, "larger" self and we're part of her. Not that we're all equal parts of the same system. We would not describe ourselves with any single "alter+others" as that implies one is greater than the rest. That's a big no-no in our system. But now our T is like, "Why are you afraid of being something greater?" It's not fear it's that we're EQUAL and it pisses us off when we're not treated that way. We're glad A seems to have accepted we're all the same now, BUT before that, we were treated like we did not exist. Rule one for getting along and working together is we're all equal and should be treated that way.

fireheart wrote:It sounds like a tough situation and we're wishing you well.

Yeah...we can't deal. We can't believe it hasn't even been a week yet. Last week felt like 7 years. We're also so still in denial about the person we learned we lost last weekend....crap...it's been a week since he died, but not since we got the news.

The timing of everything is terrible...and then we feel terrible for making it about ourselves when this wonderful man lost his life.

Thank you for caring.

Hi,

Your T is using this one specific model for therapy. The model she's using says alters are just defenses and you can get past them if you don't recognize them as valid. It's really frustrating and just makes you pretend a lot. She's probably being taught that by whoever she's talking to so it's not a mistake that she's doing it. It's the model. You have to integrate for them or they think they're losing. It's not your fault. It's the stupid model she's using.

Google - Critiquing the Requirement of Oneness over Multiplicity: An Examination of Dissociative Identity (Disorder) in Five Clinical Texts. by Kymbra Clayton

Iain

IainEtc wrote:Your T is using this one specific model for therapy. The model she's using says alters are just defenses and you can get past them if you don't recognize them as valid.

She validates we exist and that we matter, she is just not willing to talk to us directly anymore and thinks we are "you" - some single person she can talk to. It bloody hurts our head. We don't know why it's so hard to understand there is no singular "you" she can talk to that is all of us like that. It's like she told us we have DID, accepted our DID...but wants to go back to talking to just the alter that denied the DID.

IainEtc wrote:It's really frustrating and just makes you pretend a lot.

It IS frustrating. We haven't been pretending anything though. We basically have just been ignoring her when she keeps trying to talk to this person that does not exist and we carry on, but it was always a little annoying. But she made it clear she was not going to talk to us as individuals anymore, like, we're not going to play games with our therapist - what the hell are we paying her for if that is the case!?

IainEtc wrote:She's probably being taught that by whoever she's talking to so it's not a mistake that she's doing it.

She is 100% being taught by others. Via her "specialist" on DID and workshops she's sense been too. We MUCH preferred how she was dealing with us before. BUT she has been seeing the specialist for a time, so we don't know why things suddenly changed, other than her being concerned we've gotten new alters...except most were not new - just undiscovered old ones. The one truly new alter we have, that formed in session...it was because she keeps pushing trauma work too early in our opinion and he formed to protect one of our most traumatized alters who couldn't handle the session. She always wants to process everything with EMDR, but we think EMDR is stupid for one thing and we dissociate every time she tries we might add - don't think we're ready for any of that. We can't even get basic things like sleeping and eating stable.

IainEtc wrote:You have to integrate for them or they think they're losing.

We want to integrate in terms of being able to work together better. We don't know how we feel about fusing. But we're not in a state to do either.

We certainly think she's doubting herself because we're not progressing in a way I guess a person with trauma but not DID does...we have been happy with the pacing...actually, we've found her being too fast, not too slow!

IainEtc wrote:Google - Critiquing the Requirement of Oneness over Multiplicity: An Examination of Dissociative Identity (Disorder) in Five Clinical Texts. by Kymbra Clayton

She herself keeps talking about how we formed due to trauma. She has stopped calling us alters though and now ALWAYS says parts. But she belittles OUR experience with the "everyone has parts" crap. That non-DID people have different selves at work and home is not even bloody remotely the same damned thing.

But she seems to be in the middle of these two positions as stated in this article (thanks for it BTW).

ConcealDontFeel wrote:She always wants to process everything with EMDR, but we think EMDR is stupid for one thing and we dissociate every time she tries we might add - don't think we're ready for any of that. We can't even get basic things like sleeping and eating stable.

Yeah, you're still needing phase 1 treatment, no wonder you dissociate and think phase 2 tools are stupid! It's like trying to run before you're able to stand on your feet.

Sending moral support!
__
Zamiel.

Iain:

The more deeply parts of the individual connect with the therapist; the more important it is for the therapist to remember that the client is one person.

THIS IS SO WHAT SHE'S DOING!!!

We really like this article. We always hated "disorder" being applied to us. Thanks again so much for this!

-- Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:43 am --

ArbreMonde wrote:Yeah, you're still needing phase 1 treatment, no wonder you dissociate and think phase 2 tools are stupid! It's like trying to run before you're able to stand on your feet.

We keep saying this. We really think she's pushing this too fast. She thinks we're going so slow, we think we are moving at light speed sometimes!

We were very happy with our arrangement prior. We made it VERY clear that our weekly session helped us get through the week. Even if that was "all" it did, that was enough for us!

She seems to think she did enough phase 1 to do phase 2 with phase 1. Nooooooo, we don't want that!

She is also always obsessed with our childhood. We don't bloody remember our childhood. We have plenty of ADULT life trauma that we have said many times is more where we want to focus as it is causing us harm in the present in the way our childhood is not because we do not remember it.

Ugh. We do like her, we do want to work with her, but....just....ARRRRRG! And, again, we know the reality is...we're never going to be open to looking for a new one. We NEED this to work!