Schizophrenia test

Just an FYI that I like the psychcentral.com screening test for schizophrenia. So many screening tests don't distinguish between schizophrenia and dissociative disorders but this one clearly does (or else it is broken, very very broken). Too bad it doesn't suggest any alternative when it reports no schizophrenia but the user endorses items such as:

• I hear or see things that others do not hear or see
• I feel it is very difficult for me to express myself in words that others can understand
• I feel I share absolutely nothing in common with others, including my friends and family
• I believe in more than one thing about reality and the world around me that nobody else seems to believe in
• Others don't believe me when I tell them the things I see or hear
• I can't trust what I'm thinking because I don't know if it's real or not
• I have magical powers that nobody else has or can explain
• I talk to another person or other people inside my head that nobody else can hear

I don't see what you mean. I got 11 out of 97, but that might mean I have early Schizophrenia? I LIVED with a person who had this disease for over a year and knew him all my life until he died some years ago. He was nothing like me. Right, this is not for diagnostic purposes.

Sorry to be so negative, but I cannot believe the answer I got. So there are other tests that are worse? Oh no.

By the way, I'm really happy to see you guys out here again!!!

- Marcella

There are a lot of places in the Haunted Self explaining the difference between schizophrenia/psychosis and dissociation.

A lot of the symptoms, if looked at improperly, can seem identical. But if you know what DIFFERENCES to look for, it becomes obvious that there is nothing in common. Even "psychotic" alters have a dissociative reason to be "psychotic" that is very different from schizophrenia. The "psychotic" alters can sometimes very easily dragged out of their "psychosis" if the T knows their DID. While organic psychosis needs lifetime meds to be kept in check.

So, if I take your list Una+ and explain it in a DID fasion:

• I hear or see things that others do not hear or see because they are my thoughts and memories
• I feel it is very difficult for me to express myself in words that others can understand either because I am autistic (autistic people develop dissociation more easily), because very few people can share my experiences and understand when I am talking about them, or because poly-trauma did not each me how to express my feelings properly
• I feel I share absolutely nothing in common with others, including my friends and family because DID experiences are uncommon and shared by few, and/or because you nave a neurotype (autism for example) making you super sensitive to trauma and dissociation, causing you to feel alienated by people of a different neurotype than you
• I believe in more than one thing about reality and the world around me that nobody else seems to believe in because dissociation allows you to keep different, conflicting points of views inside your head and/or your trauma lead your brain to develop explanations for it that are more bearable for you than the cold, hard physical facts
• Others don't believe me when I tell them the things I see or hear because people are dumb and do not understand that "seeing and hearing things" can have many, many meanings; also I would not put this as a symptom per se. We used to know schizophrenic siblings, and we did believe them when they said they could hear/see things because we knew this is how their brain works. We just reminded them that it was most probably their brain over-reacting and to talk about it with their T to see what can be done if it bothers them
• I can't trust what I'm thinking because I don't know if it's real or not which can be also something in DID because of dissociative amnesia, and the brain building symbolic episodes to cover up unbearable memories.
• I have magical powers that nobody else has or can explain if it is in the Innerworld it is something perfectly normal in DID
• I talk to another person or other people inside my head that nobody else can hear because they are dissociated parts of your mind. Non-dissociative people can just think and make up their mind this way. Dissociative people need to bring together different dissociated parts/alters and chat between these in order to be able to fully access all of their own thought patterns.

In "The haunted self" there are examples on how to sort out between psychosis symptoms and dissociative symptoms. Of course, one CAN have both - I am not saying that you are clean of psychosis. I am far from having the knowledge to do that, and even a professional T could not tell by simply reading your post. I am merely trying to show you that, having these symptoms is not enough to be able to say "yes this is psychotic" because DID can lead to have similar symptoms, for different reasons, and they have subtle differences from their psychotic counterpart.

You can for a start if you feel like it, have a look at "The haunted self" (link shared here dissociative-identity/topic219302.html ) then decide if it can be worth it talking with a T who has the knowledge to be able to sort things out between psychosis and DID. Because, you might have both. It could be simply DID and you could simply need a bit more anchoring techniques taught by a specialized T. It could be something else entirely that I have no idea what it could be.

Do not hesitate to talk to a specialized T who know both DID and psychosis, if you really feel like you need help keeping these everyday experiences in check. Your well-being is important.

__
Isaïa.

Una+ wrote:Just an FYI that I like the psychcentral.com screening test for schizophrenia. So many screening tests don't distinguish between schizophrenia and dissociative disorders but this one clearly does (or else it is broken, very very broken). Too bad it doesn't suggest any alternative when it reports no schizophrenia but the user endorses items such as:

• I hear or see things that others do not hear or see
• I feel it is very difficult for me to express myself in words that others can understand
• I feel I share absolutely nothing in common with others, including my friends and family
• I believe in more than one thing about reality and the world around me that nobody else seems to believe in
• Others don't believe me when I tell them the things I see or hear
• I can't trust what I'm thinking because I don't know if it's real or not
• I have magical powers that nobody else has or can explain
• I talk to another person or other people inside my head that nobody else can hear

A lot of these can apply to DID too. Are we not talking to others in our head that real life others can't see? (They only see one body).

There are several people on here who have an alter who believes they have magical powers or are a non- human race that can do things other humans can't or are animals.

Everybody doubts if they have alters inside them at some point.

A lot of people on here have very vivid inner worlds that only they or their alters (who can no-one else can see) can see and live in!

Some may have other conditions that make them feel different anyway eg Autism - causing difficulties in relating to their own family etc (not to mention any other stuff like gaslighting and/or worse on top)

If someone had trauma that caused them to literally fear all people how do you seperate that from schizophrenia?

If a child created a fantasy world many years ago to cope with death of a parent/carer to keep their memory alive and has other learning disabilities that affected their development (so they stayed in that mode for many years beyond what would have been considered 'normal' for a grieving child/teen) how do you seperate what they think they still see from being schizophrenic? .. what if only one alter see's that? ..are the others not real? ..which one is real?

There's so much overlap between some conditions that in many cases I suspect it would impossible to say for sure, especially if the person can't communicate clearly (verbally) the diagnosis is being based on a complete strangers perspective of you without having any information of what's really going on inside their head!

Kit

ArbreMonde wrote:There are a lot of places in the Haunted Self explaining the difference between schizophrenia/psychosis and dissociation.

A lot of the symptoms, if looked at improperly, can seem identical. But if you know what DIFFERENCES to look for, it becomes obvious that there is nothing in common. Even "psychotic" alters have a dissociative reason to be "psychotic" that is very different from schizophrenia. The "psychotic" alters can sometimes very easily dragged out of their "psychosis" if the T knows their DID. While organic psychosis needs lifetime meds to be kept in check.

So, if I take your list Una+ and explain it in a DID fasion:

• I hear or see things that others do not hear or see because they are my thoughts and memories
• I feel it is very difficult for me to express myself in words that others can understand either because I am autistic (autistic people develop dissociation more easily), because very few people can share my experiences and understand when I am talking about them, or because poly-trauma did not each me how to express my feelings properly
• I feel I share absolutely nothing in common with others, including my friends and family because DID experiences are uncommon and shared by few, and/or because you nave a neurotype (autism for example) making you super sensitive to trauma and dissociation, causing you to feel alienated by people of a different neurotype than you
• I believe in more than one thing about reality and the world around me that nobody else seems to believe in because dissociation allows you to keep different, conflicting points of views inside your head and/or your trauma lead your brain to develop explanations for it that are more bearable for you than the cold, hard physical facts
• Others don't believe me when I tell them the things I see or hear because people are dumb and do not understand that "seeing and hearing things" can have many, many meanings; also I would not put this as a symptom per se. We used to know schizophrenic siblings, and we did believe them when they said they could hear/see things because we knew this is how their brain works. We just reminded them that it was most probably their brain over-reacting and to talk about it with their T to see what can be done if it bothers them
• I can't trust what I'm thinking because I don't know if it's real or not which can be also something in DID because of dissociative amnesia, and the brain building symbolic episodes to cover up unbearable memories.
• I have magical powers that nobody else has or can explain if it is in the Innerworld it is something perfectly normal in DID
• I talk to another person or other people inside my head that nobody else can hear because they are dissociated parts of your mind. Non-dissociative people can just think and make up their mind this way. Dissociative people need to bring together different dissociated parts/alters and chat between these in order to be able to fully access all of their own thought patterns.

In "The haunted self" there are examples on how to sort out between psychosis symptoms and dissociative symptoms. Of course, one CAN have both - I am not saying that you are clean of psychosis. I am far from having the knowledge to do that, and even a professional T could not tell by simply reading your post. I am merely trying to show you that, having these symptoms is not enough to be able to say "yes this is psychotic" because DID can lead to have similar symptoms, for different reasons, and they have subtle differences from their psychotic counterpart.

You can for a start if you feel like it, have a look at "The haunted self" (link shared here dissociative-identity/topic219302.html ) then decide if it can be worth it talking with a T who has the knowledge to be able to sort things out between psychosis and DID. Because, you might have both. It could be simply DID and you could simply need a bit more anchoring techniques taught by a specialized T. It could be something else entirely that I have no idea what it could be.

Do not hesitate to talk to a specialized T who know both DID and psychosis, if you really feel like you need help keeping these everyday experiences in check. Your well-being is important.

__
Isaïa.

yes, agree with these points completely you said it better what I was trying to say (didn't see your post when I started typing mine!)

I've been called to the front to read that book also this weekend after Zami mentioned it the other day

Kit

P.S @Arbremonde gang ... I always feel empowered when I read your posts like this cos its like 'wow there's someone out there who's like me or understand why I'm like I am!' Even in an 'autistic unit' with supposedly trained staff and other autistic clients I never felt anyone could 'see the real me' or even begin to understand me!

Kit@KitMcDaydream wrote:P.S @Arbremonde gang ... I always feel empowered when I read your posts like this cos its like 'wow there's someone out there who's like me or understand why I'm like I am!' Even in an 'autistic unit' with supposedly trained staff and other autistic clients I never felt anyone could 'see the real me' or even begin to understand me!

Thank you, it is a very touching message!

__
All of us.

I had a look at the test. For me, it's too much based on the Schneiderian first rank symptoms, which have been proven to not be specific of schizophrenia at all. One study even says you can find them on a way or another in 94% of people with DID. Just screening for them isn't a good approach for it : depending on the presentation of the person, the level of dissociation, comorbidities, etc. there are cases where you have to dig past what the person first says to make the difference between DID and schizophrenia, because a lot of things can sound similar or be misunderstood.

That kind of screening tests are good only if the person already have a good understanding of psychology and schizophrenia, and knows exactly what's behind the questions. Someone with DID and less knowledge could totally have a high score for schizophrenia with a test like this one. Plus, there are questions that could totally be biased by a comorbidity like autism or ADHD.

Even knowing what the questions are about and adapting my answers to it, I have the "possibility of early schizophrenia" result too, but all the psychs I saw totally agree I don't have any sign of psychosis. DID and autism, on another hand...

Why I mentioned this test at all:

Most schizophrenia screening tests, and some diagnostic tests too, completely fail to distinguish between schizophrenia and DID. Those are the product of schizophrenia researchers who conveniently deny that dissociative disorders exist or are distinct from schizophrenia. Their denial is convenient because it lets them declare all the classic Schneiderian symptoms, which otherwise are useless, as signature diagnostic symptoms of schizophrenia. Oops!

This screening test interests me because, despite all the Schneiderian symptoms it asks about, it does not score all of us here as severely schizophrenic. I'd like to get a look at the scoring algorithm.

KitMcDaydream wrote:

Una+ wrote:If a child created a fantasy world many years ago to cope with death of a parent/carer to keep their memory alive and has other learning disabilities that affected their development (so they stayed in that mode for many years beyond what would have been considered 'normal' for a grieving child/teen) how do you seperate what they think they still see from being schizophrenic? .. what if only one alter see's that? ..are the others not real? ..which one is real?

There's so much overlap between some conditions that in many cases I suspect it would impossible to say for sure, especially if the person can't communicate clearly (verbally) the diagnosis is being based on a complete strangers perspective of you without having any information of what's really going on inside their head!

Kit

yes definitely this. When i taking the test, i was thinking about that too