Getting 'locked out' & finding the terms confusing - Jody

Hi Jody here so I'm trying to read up more but finding some terms confusing..some seem to be different terms for the same thing but not sure?

eg is co-hosting the same thing as what some people/sites call passive influence? or is it the same thing as being a 'shell-host'?

Is co-piloting the same as 'blending'? or fusing/fusion? or something different?

is 'the system' an alter that controls everyone and everything or is 'the system' the collective term for every alter in it?

whats the one called that blocks others from coming to the front at inappropriate moments? like a child alter if it would be dangerous at that moment in time...do they control everyone and decide whose allowed 'out'?

someone must be in overall control if there was alters who can go up front and have no idea there are 'others'...who is blocking them from that knowledge?

I want to help out and be the next host but don't want to be 'locked out' up front thinking I am alone and not knowing or remembering the very rich world we have on the onside and the relationships I have with other alters on the inside.

Jody

Hi Jody,

There aren't set-in-stone definitions for these things, so there's some variation in how people use them. This is my take on the generally accepted meanings.

Co-hosting--I think some people use this interchangeably with co-fronting, which is more than one alter fronting at a time. I guess it could also mean two or more alters who take turns handling all of the daily life activities at different times. So they're not necessarily fronting at the same time, but among them, they take care of "hosting duties."

Co-hosting is not the same as passive influence. Passive influence is the front being affected by the thoughts/feelings/impulses of an alter on the inside. Someone is fronting, but finds themselves doing or thinking or saying things that don't "feel like them" because they're being influenced by someone on the inside.

Co-hosting is also not the same as a shell-host. People use that to mean an entity who is in the front all the time (or IS the front all the time), and through which other alters come to the front.

I've never heard of co-piloting. It sounds like co-fronting to me. It's not the same as blending, which is when you feel aspects of more than one alter sort of mixing together--that's different than feeling two distinct alters at the front.

Fusing/fusion is the term reserved for the complete elimination of dissociative barriers between two alters so that they no longer exist as separate entities, but are one part who has the aspects of those previous two parts.

System is generally the collective term for the alters in one physical body (or all the alters in one particular alter, in the case of subsystems).

Some systems have "gatekeepers" who can control who comes to the front at different times.

It doesn't have to be that an alter is blocking others from certain knowledge. It's the nature of dissociative barriers that parts know some things but not others. They can each be existing in their little bubble of denial and unawareness--so when they come up to the front, they ignore any information that implies that they're not the only one.

If you already know there are others, going to the front shouldn't take that knowledge away from you. "Host" just means the alter who fronts the most--if you start fronting more, that shouldn't change what you know or don't know.

here is an example of how we use the words for ourselves.

co-hosting: when there is more than one alter who works as a "host"

co-piloting: when more than one alter is fronting and piloting the body at the same time

passive influence: when one alter's emotions and thoughts come through another alter; the influencer is not doing it in an active manner. we see it as some sort of blending

blending: when two or more alters temporarily get mixed up together

fusion: when two or more alters mix together in a more permanent way

system: collective formed by all the dissociated parts of the same brain

gatekeeper: an alter who manages who can front and when

the lack of co-awareness (being aware that there are other alters in the system) can come from an alter actively keeping other/s in the mist - or it can be a self-defense mechanism, allowing "apparently normal parts" to function in the daily life without being aware of the traumatic memories/emotions.

in here we do our best to co-host all together, though there is no set schedule of who comes out when. we just all do our best to work together, and keep Zami's explosive "protective" emotional reactions at bay. therefore we all need to lean how to protect ourselves from danger and how to spot danger, in a healthy, assertive way.

this is our choice to function this way, and other systems have other ways of working together. the important thing is to find what works for you.

__
Ulysses.

TheGangsAllHere wrote:Hi Jody,

There aren't set-in-stone definitions for these things, so there's some variation in how people use them. This is my take on the generally accepted meanings.

Co-hosting--I think some people use this interchangeably with co-fronting, which is more than one alter fronting at a time. I guess it could also mean two or more alters who take turns handling all of the daily life activities at different times. So they're not necessarily fronting at the same time, but among them, they take care of "hosting duties."

Co-hosting is not the same as passive influence. Passive influence is the front being affected by the thoughts/feelings/impulses of an alter on the inside. Someone is fronting, but finds themselves doing or thinking or saying things that don't "feel like them" because they're being influenced by someone on the inside.

Co-hosting is also not the same as a shell-host. People use that to mean an entity who is in the front all the time (or IS the front all the time), and through which other alters come to the front.

I've never heard of co-piloting. It sounds like co-fronting to me. It's not the same as blending, which is when you feel aspects of more than one alter sort of mixing together--that's different than feeling two distinct alters at the front.

Fusing/fusion is the term reserved for the complete elimination of dissociative barriers between two alters so that they no longer exist as separate entities, but are one part who has the aspects of those previous two parts.

System is generally the collective term for the alters in one physical body (or all the alters in one particular alter, in the case of subsystems).

Some systems have "gatekeepers" who can control who comes to the front at different times.

It doesn't have to be that an alter is blocking others from certain knowledge. It's the nature of dissociative barriers that parts know some things but not others. They can each be existing in their little bubble of denial and unawareness--so when they come up to the front, they ignore any information that implies that they're not the only one.

If you already know there are others, going to the front shouldn't take that knowledge away from you. "Host" just means the alter who fronts the most--if you start fronting more, that shouldn't change what you know or don't know.

Thank you for answering! I guess it could be that earlier hosts who didn't understand there was a system was because of these dissociative barriers you mentioned, rather than another alter actually blocking them?

I did used to find I could actually 'come out' though when the young host went through their party stage at university where they would go out and drink a lot of something!.... no idea what it was but it made them feel more relaxed and the lights in the dancing clubs would draw me out. The host never remembered though. When they came back on the inside they didn't know me!

I'm not sure where I got the word co-piloting from it's just in my head. If I don't remember actually reading something myself it must be from memory transfer. (so I automatically know how to behave if someone in the real world approached me).

I think we may have a Gatekeeper I've never actually seen them but I get thoughts when I know I can come out and what I'm needed to do on the outside. I have the feeling I've been 'chosen' if that makes any sense?

Jody

ArbreMonde wrote:here is an example of how we use the words for ourselves.

co-hosting: when there is more than one alter who works as a "host"

co-piloting: when more than one alter is fronting and piloting the body at the same time

passive influence: when one alter's emotions and thoughts come through another alter; the influencer is not doing it in an active manner. we see it as some sort of blending

blending: when two or more alters temporarily get mixed up together

fusion: when two or more alters mix together in a more permanent way

system: collective formed by all the dissociated parts of the same brain

gatekeeper: an alter who manages who can front and when

the lack of co-awareness (being aware that there are other alters in the system) can come from an alter actively keeping other/s in the mist - or it can be a self-defense mechanism, allowing "apparently normal parts" to function in the daily life without being aware of the traumatic memories/emotions.

in here we do our best to co-host all together, though there is no set schedule of who comes out when. we just all do our best to work together, and keep Zami's explosive "protective" emotional reactions at bay. therefore we all need to lean how to protect ourselves from danger and how to spot danger, in a healthy, assertive way.

this is our choice to function this way, and other systems have other ways of working together. the important thing is to find what works for you.

__
Ulysses.

oh wow another message. Thanks...this wasn't there when I started replying to the other!!!

ah...I wonder if we got the term co-piloting from one of your posts? so when you say pilot the body at the same time... do you mean like 2 alters may have half of the body each to control ...like one arm one leg each? or one doing all the talking so the voice always sounds the same? one doing walking/gait so you always walk the same way etc?

I know we have two in our system that always work together but I've never been 'out' with them to see how they work and we've never been together on the inside either. I've looked through some old posts done by our previous hosts and secretaries and the inside is much bigger than they are aware of and there's lots more 'alters' than they've mentioned too!

Jody

When we say "co-piloting" it can be either:

- one talks while the other pilots the hands;
- we both, at the same time, control the body's movements (which requires some sort of blending, at least of intentions of movements);
- we rapid-switch back and forth while alternating between two tasks;
- maybe other sorts of situations we haven't identified yet.

Dissociative walls might be the reason why you haven't met yet the other alters you speak of. Writing to each-others in a notebook or on the forum or any other ways that feels comfortable for you, could be a start in dreaking the walls.

__
Aragorn

ArbreMonde wrote:here is an example of how we use the words for ourselves.

co-hosting: when there is more than one alter who works as a "host"

co-piloting: when more than one alter is fronting and piloting the body at the same time

passive influence: when one alter's emotions and thoughts come through another alter; the influencer is not doing it in an active manner. we see it as some sort of blending

blending: when two or more alters temporarily get mixed up together

fusion: when two or more alters mix together in a more permanent way

system: collective formed by all the dissociated parts of the same brain

gatekeeper: an alter who manages who can front and when

the lack of co-awareness (being aware that there are other alters in the system) can come from an alter actively keeping other/s in the mist - or it can be a self-defense mechanism, allowing "apparently normal parts" to function in the daily life without being aware of the traumatic memories/emotions.

in here we do our best to co-host all together, though there is no set schedule of who comes out when. we just all do our best to work together, and keep Zami's explosive "protective" emotional reactions at bay. therefore we all need to lean how to protect ourselves from danger and how to spot danger, in a healthy, assertive way.

this is our choice to function this way, and other systems have other ways of working together. the important thing is to find what works for you.

__
Ulysses.

what things do you do to help Zami keep their emotional reactions under control? We have one that is really struggling, triggered by hormone levels and 'menopausal rage'. Having HRT is not an option for us for medical reasons. so need to look at maybe some herbal remedies and behavioural techniques?

Hello there!

We have a few behavioral techniques such as: breathing exercises, putting a wet cold washcloth on our face while holding our breath, redirecting the emotional outbursts towards writing/journaling or drawing/painting.

We also do system-work about accepting and aknowledging the emotions, even the difficult ones. Repeating to the emotional parts that they are legitimate in their feelings, listening to them, comforting them, thanking thame for sharing about their emotions... Helps, too.

Therefore, we aknowledge that Zami's outbursts are "alarm systems" warning us of danger, discomfort, and similar situations. We do our best to aknowledge them, thank them for warning us, but not allow them to be the one reacting to the emotion. But we do not just shut them down: we DO take action after Zami's alarms. And we DO our best to do it in a healthy, constructive way.

Regarding hormones and other substances, we noticed that not all of us react the same way to different substances. We are more or less sensitive to hormonal changes, coffee, tea, chocolate, sugar, or even exhaustion, or stress sensitivity. Understanding our peculiarities helps us better match switches, activities and foods in order to avoid e.g. my coffee jitters.

Hope this helps!

__
Trisha

ArbreMonde wrote:Hello there!

We have a few behavioral techniques such as: breathing exercises, putting a wet cold washcloth on our face while holding our breath, redirecting the emotional outbursts towards writing/journaling or drawing/painting.

We also do system-work about accepting and aknowledging the emotions, even the difficult ones. Repeating to the emotional parts that they are legitimate in their feelings, listening to them, comforting them, thanking thame for sharing about their emotions... Helps, too.

Therefore, we aknowledge that Zami's outbursts are "alarm systems" warning us of danger, discomfort, and similar situations. We do our best to aknowledge them, thank them for warning us, but not allow them to be the one reacting to the emotion. But we do not just shut them down: we DO take action after Zami's alarms. And we DO our best to do it in a healthy, constructive way.

Regarding hormones and other substances, we noticed that not all of us react the same way to different substances. We are more or less sensitive to hormonal changes, coffee, tea, chocolate, sugar, or even exhaustion, or stress sensitivity. Understanding our peculiarities helps us better match switches, activities and foods in order to avoid e.g. my coffee jitters.

Hope this helps!

__
Trisha

Thanks, they don't really communicate other than to scream abuse. An example maybe we were doing exercising the other day on wii fit trying to beat our last score on one game/exercise. As if got clear we weren't going to beat it, suddenly they're there in the background ' you're not going to do it','can't even complete a simple game, retard etc.

the young alter who was doing the game ends up in tears cos suddenly its just like being back at school when people used to call her names and bully her. they end up taking an alcoholic drink instead of the healthy water they were drinking whilst exercising,just to shut the other up. A sensation that we needed the bathroom led us to find our monthlies had started again!...second time in 2 weeks)...by tthe time we had showered and changed out of exercise clothes the other alter had vanished. They don't hang about to be 'reasoned with'

Another time they were triggered when we out in public because our dog suddenly decided to take off after another. we managed to get the dog, apologise to other owner and get off the field but before we'd got home the angry one was screaming at us from the inside..again the first thing we ended up going to was a drink as soon as we got in to calm the nerves,also for some reason once we've had a drink they disappear...again it was that TOTM.

The most stable we have been since on set of menopause is when we've gone 2 and 3 months without one!...but we're still in early stages,it gonna be a while before we reach 12 months without a monthly. They don't seem to come out any other time, other than when hormones trigger feelings of rage. Other alters seem to cry more easily too when they previously rarely came to the front and didn't really 'send emotions' to the front if they weren't the one's being host.

The little's haven't been out to play for a while, I think they're scared to try something in case they fail or its not perfect in case they trigger the angry one out.

Our current host ordered something called 'Boron' to try in the hope it takes the edge off the severity of the rage, so the feeling gets easier to control and doesn't trigger them, other than that all we seem to be able to do is hope we a break of 4 or 5 months next!

It's exhausting and scary sometimes. I'm only 19 but the body is in its 50's!

Jody

KitMcDaydream wrote:they don't really communicate other than to scream abuse. An example maybe we were doing exercising the other day on wii fit trying to beat our last score on one game/exercise. As if got clear we weren't going to beat it, suddenly they're there in the background ' you're not going to do it','can't even complete a simple game, retard etc.

This sounds like a persecutor type of alter. Persecutors try to protect the system by abusing it. It does sound weird and counter-productive, and it is in a way. Their logic is that, if they anticipate the possible abuses that can come from the outside, it will be less painful than allowing it to come directly from the outside.

In this case, it might be seen as less painful to find a way to stop the game-playing, before an outsider can do it by doing even worse things than what they are doing themself.

Persecutors are a handful to deal with. But they can be dealt with. In this situation for example, they can be told that:

- there is nobody outside who is going to abuse the system therefore there is no need to anticipate what could happen, the system is safe now;
- games are supposed to be played and enjoyed, it's alright not to beat it as long as we are having fun, they can even take a turn playing later if they want to experience the fun of playing;
- abusing other system members is counter-productive, there are more productive ways of protecting the system - and there are times now when things are safe and there is no need to be on the edge.

KitMcDaydream wrote:They don't hang about to be 'reasoned with'

This makes it difficult to communicate with persecutor alters. They stay when triggered and disappear afterwards, feeling that they did a "good job". Maybe an Internet search about how to deal with persecutors might lead to better ideas than the ones we listed above.

KitMcDaydream wrote:also for some reason once we've had a drink they disappear

It seems that this alter also triggers some "coping mechanisms" that can be seen as unhealthy but for a reason, it is what they think is best. It might have something to do with your common biographical experiences - or just be random. In my opinion it might be a good idea to explore what the meaning of it could be, and see what can be done to replace it with a healthier coping mechanism.

KitMcDaydream wrote:The most stable we have been since on set of menopause is when we've gone 2 and 3 months without one!

Some people are indeed very sensitive to hormonal changes. Good luck with them.

KitMcDaydream wrote:The little's haven't been out to play for a while, I think they're scared to try something in case they fail or its not perfect in case they trigger the angry one out.

Sending moral support to your littles. It is not fun to fear retaliation all the time. Of course, if there was still abuse coming from the outside, it would be a "good" thing because, if the littles do not move, they cannot make mistakes, and cannot trigger abuse from the outside. This is why persecutors can be seen as an unhealty type of protectors. Once they get anchored to the here and now and learn better protection methods, they can be very nice healthy protectors.

KitMcDaydream wrote:Our current host ordered something called 'Boron' to try in the hope it takes the edge off the severity of the rage, so the feeling gets easier to control and doesn't trigger them, other than that all we seem to be able to do is hope we a break of 4 or 5 months next!

Doing beathing exercices 3 times a day, also helps keeping the emotions in check before they explode. Just so you know, in case the "Boron" does not fully cover your needs.

KitMcDaydream wrote:It's exhausting and scary sometimes. I'm only 19 but the body is in its 50's!

It is one of the confusing aspects of DID. Good luck coming to terms with that. Remember it does not mean that you have to "act the body's age". You can have fun and dress young and play as much as you want. Enjoy life!

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van Hohenheim.