Never good enough...

That really sucks Zor.

We had to step away from ours. Our ability to cope with it was at an all time low and her guilt trips were at an all time high. Several years and counting. She wished me dead for not living my life her way. I can't deal with it anymore. She lost the right to speak to me for that and I doubt I will ever feel differently. I guess it was a self-fulfilling prophecy on her part, to her I might as well be.
I understand you don't feel that is a good option now, but don't throw that option out if it gets too bad. You are worthwhile and valid. No one deserves to be treated that way. We care.

Kalli

Zor wrote:She'd use it as an excuse to play martyr and post public about us... "see he's cutting me out of his life entirely, he just doesn't care about me" stuff.
It just feels like a no-win situation.

Yes, but since you wouldn't be having any contact with her, you wouldn't be subject to that kind of manipulation. She would be blocked so you wouldn't see her melodramatic posts, and people who truly care about you would figure that you had a good reason. People who would side with her without bothering to talk to you wouldn't be worth keeping in your life either.

I completely agree with those who said that it's a step that might be necessary, but it sounds like you're not ready for that. And it might never be the right thing for you. There are a lot of factors.

One thing you can do is journal about it so that every part who wants to can say how they feel right now about the mother, and then you can see how/if that shifts over time.

You can also try setting firm boundaries such as letting her know that you're unfollowing her on social media--then you won't have to see those public posts.

TheGangsAllHere wrote:

Zor wrote:She'd use it as an excuse to play martyr and post public about us... "see he's cutting me out of his life entirely, he just doesn't care about me" stuff.
It just feels like a no-win situation.

Yes, but since you wouldn't be having any contact with her, you wouldn't be subject to that kind of manipulation. She would be blocked so you wouldn't see her melodramatic posts, and people who truly care about you would figure that you had a good reason. People who would side with her without bothering to talk to you wouldn't be worth keeping in your life either.

I completely agree with those who said that it's a step that might be necessary, but it sounds like you're not ready for that. And it might never be the right thing for you. There are a lot of factors.

One thing you can do is journal about it so that every part who wants to can say how they feel right now about the mother, and then you can see how/if that shifts over time.

You can also try setting firm boundaries such as letting her know that you're unfollowing her on social media--then you won't have to see those public posts.

Maybe part of me, the part that was totally clueless about all our suffering and abuses, is still struggling a little with letting go...

This does, however, scare the hell out of me. That this sort of "back and forth" has been so... constant. The manipulation... the hurt...

I am leaning towards a basically "it's civil but distant" view- non-emotional. Firm boundaries. We can't keep doing this- and then, if it still happens... then I guess she won't give us a choice, will she?

Some suggestions:

• Silently unfollow her on social media.
• Lock down your own social media profiles.
• Tell her you have decided not to check social media daily, and you are turning off notifications.
• Never comment in a reactive manner.
• Never comment immediately.
• Tell her to never post on social media when she is going to be away because that is an open invitation to burglars.
• Consider what would make you block her on social media. If you decide now where your line is, you will have a much easier time taking action if the line gets crossed.
• Tell her your rules of engagement in a constructive way. "Mom, I want to be there for you when you need me. If you need me then I am sure you will call. You are a competent adult and I trust you to take care of most of your affairs yourself, without my second guessing you or telling you what to do."
• Consider if there could be a serious problem developing. Was backing the car into the house an isolated incident, or have there been others you may have forgotten or not heard about yet? Is she becoming a dangerous driver? Often when senior drivers have serious accidents the family discover there had been a series of other accidents that were covered up.

To help you feel better about this, you could imagine turning the tables on her. "My mother had an accident and didn't call me! Can you imagine?! She doesn't trust me to help her." "Or, she is that independent! She is amazing!" Etc. Everything she says that wounds you, every thought you have about the situation that stings, you can turn around in at least one way.

Those are some great points and thoughts Una+

Thank you for that!

My favorite books on personal boundaries are by Cloud and Townsend, but their heavily Protestant Christian messaging is unacceptable to many abuse survivors.

There is also The Dance of Intimacy: A Woman's Guide to Courageous Acts of Change in Key Relationships by Harriet Lerner. She has other books on boundaries but this one is my favorite among them.

And there are many more books by many more authors.

A tool I use, and recommend to others, is Byron Katie's "Judge Your Neighbor" worksheet. It is 1 page, available on the web. I know that for most people the worksheet makes no sense at first, so it helps to see an example worked out.

Putting myself in your shoes, Zor, I might start the worksheet like this:

1. I am angry with Mother because she made vague posts on Facebook and then accused me of neglect.
   
2. I want Mother to
   
   • Call me directly when she really needs help, else shut up already.
     
   • Stop shaming and guilting me.
     
   • Stop shaming me on Facebook.
     
   • Stop shaming me to her flying monkey narc supply friends.
3. Mother shouldn't expect me to drop everything for veiled hints.
   
4. I need Mother to respect my time and my roles as a husband and father.
   
5. Mother is childish, co-dependent, selfish, oblivious, competing with her Jewish Grandmother friends over who has the most / least attentive children.
   
6. I don't ever want Mother to sucker me again.

That's the easy part. The hard part is the 4 questions, and the turn-arounds. The 4 questions can be asked about each and every piece of the above. Let's apply the 4 questions to the piece Mother shouldn't expect me to drop everything:

1. Is it true? Yes or no.
2. (If yes) Can you absolutely know that it's true? Yes or no.
3. How do you react, what happens, when you believe that thought?
4. Who or what would you be without the thought?

And then do some turn-arounds of the same piece:

• Mother should expect me to drop everything
• Mother does not expect me to drop everything
• I would not expect mother to drop everything
• I would expect mother to drop everything
• I should expect mother to drop everything
• I should not expect mother to drop everything
• I should expect mother to expect me to drop everything

Still more turn-arounds are possible. The above are just the ones I thought of. Do any of these turn-arounds feel as true or truer than Mother shouldn't expect me to drop everything?

yeah i think once you do finally see the dysfunctional patterns it's like you can't unsee it, well usually, but like then you just see the $#%^ show that was your life. at least that's sort of how it was for me. i didn't totally see or get some of the manipulations and I am still somewhat trying to figure some of it out, and it is hard. cause yeah. but i agree with others, either this was staged to make you out to be someone who could not do the right thing, or her emotions are just really out of control. and either way it's very bad.

And oh dear... It got worse... yesterday my mother managed to alienate my brother, who until recently has been ride or die to defend her and have her side... even against me.
He literally replied and posted plainly to her to "f--k off" and to leave he and his family alone, forever.

Apparently she blames us (he and I) for all sorts of troubles and stress in her life, for more than just our adult lives moving away from her... F--k off indeed. WE WERE KIDS. We are NOT to blame for HER issues.

He wants me to go there, in loving effort, to talk to her after the first of the year- to appeal to her to STOP this crap... to be loving and have a relationship with us that's respectful and civil... an intervention of sorts... to at least say he/we tried... so if she continues or rejects us, we can at least say we tried.

-- Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:14 pm --

As for seeing dysfunctional patterns... yeah... seeing and remembering (collectively) the various fights and ins/outs with family members for years, and her raging rants about this or that one, and the playing the family drama games (honestly her entirely family, my aunts & uncles, could be a Jerry Springer-caliber reality show)...
The "us vs the world" clannishness, the looking down at them, the demeaning comments to and about them (not always to their faces), etc...

I'm seeing it all in a whole different light... and wondering what the hell I don't remember... and why I felt like my life was so peaceful, so perfect, so damn good... because clearly this crap is not new, not as new as it seems... and even SHE looks back and sees it, and somehow assigns blame to us, her kids, about it in some way... Maybe my brother has the right idea after all... f--k off... no contact to let her chill out and relax a bit... and that intervention thing... and letting it all just friggen end... one way or another.

Hi Zor,

So, let's get this straight....Your brother, who's just told your mother to FO and has gone no contact, and presumably knows how you feel, wants you to stage "an intervention of sorts... to at least say he/we tried"?

Hell no. You don't owe him that, and you certainly don't owe your mother that. What does he think you've done for your whole life if not "tried"?



Sorry, just gotta boil things down to the truth here.

MDs