Why do subsystems fight?

So the dreams involving other parts of the inner world and alters I don’t know continue. Last night they featured a young girl who appears to be some kind of persecutor— very hostile to me specifically. Our previously persecutor members talked to her and we seemed to make a breakthrough to her but it didn’t last long.

One sequence included a room I’ve been in before in other dreams and a collection of alters who I couldn’t make out but knew were there — they, like the others before them, insisted the alters I knew (and who were making comments) were fake. At the end of the dream, when I switched from asking ‘why are you doing this’ to ‘I want to help you’, the girl ran away, presumably to the others I had seen.

This pattern of insistence of what I know as fake and general hostility continues in these dreams. I’m wondering, if they are a subsystem (or even multiple separate ones, or subsystems within subsystems), why are they so hostile to the main system (ie me and everyone I know currently). I’ve tried asking and gotten nowhere, often waking up and being unable to sleep again to receive the answer.

Have any of you dealt with subsystems being hostile to each other? What usually lies at the heart of it? How did you bring the groups together and make the hostility stop? I want to try to make peace with these groups, assuming they exist and aren’t just dream characters, but the nature of our interaction (dreams only, although I have a suspicion if I went exploring in the inner world I would find them eventually) makes this really difficult.

Any advice is appreciated — I’m getting little sense of rest at night due these dreams, though I much prefer them to other darker ones.

- Wolf

Hi Wolf,

I'm sorry that you're going through this.

Your description of the dynamics between you and the girl resonates with me a lot personally. For me it's tied in with the broader issue of people not getting along within the system. For us, it's not a matter of entire subsystems showing hostility to each other, it's individuals doing so.

(We should clarify a couple of things, though. We use the term "sectors" to describe groups within the system. Sometimes other people use "subsystems" to describe a "nested" system specifically - one in which the subsystem is within a particular top-level member. Not everyone uses the narrower definition, but we've seen it enough that we thought it was important to mention. Our system is not nested.)

For us, some of the discord is between people of the same sector, and sometimes it's between people of different sectors. It's an ongoing struggle to work through these issues, and a frequent topic in our T sessions. It's taking us a great deal of patience not to rush through working on it, or to put too much pressure on ourselves or each other.

We hope that you find resolution soon.

Charity (with help from Mary on the description of system structure)

Hi Charity and Mary! Thanks for the reply; it helps a bit to hear this situation resonates with someone else. I guess all I can really do is keep trying to talk to these parts through the medium we’ve got of dreams— I’m not ready to go hunting in the inner world; something about that is extremely frightening.

(Maybe because I’m not in a point in life where it’s safe to deal with whatever these deeper parts are holding. Certainly because I’m in school and have to focus on that. I hate leaving them though... I am trying to foster the sense of ‘no part left behind’ so having to put them on a backburner is difficult. Especially since the dreams continue.)

Anyway, thank you. I think I might bring this up to the T next session since it’s such a prominent thing in our life right now, more then the bad dreams even.

- Wolf

Hi Wolf,

We're glad our post was helpful to you. And we certainly understand not being able to deal with something at the present time. Sometimes the best thing we can do for our system is self-care, which may mean putting difficult issues aside until we're ready to work on them.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Mary

Could someone explain exactly what a 'subsystem' is with an example in a not too complicated way please?

KitMcDaydream wrote:Could someone explain exactly what a 'subsystem' is with an example in a not too complicated way please?

When a person is DID they have multiple alters.

Some alters can be DID and form a system within the system or a "sub-system".

We can also call "sub-systems" different groups of alters who are not aware of the other groups / have a lot of difficulties being aware of the other groups.

A longer article about sub-systems can be found here: https://did-research.org/did/alters/systems.html

--Zami--

I feel like Mouse is a subsystem. It's where all the childhood trauma seems to be. There isn't fighting, there's just barely any communication with Mouse or any parts that are to do with Mouse. Although she just said something rude to me.

So I feel like Mouse fits the subsystem word. She has other parts and there's zero communication.

Sarah

ArbreMonde wrote:

KitMcDaydream wrote:Could someone explain exactly what a 'subsystem' is with an example in a not too complicated way please?

When a person is DID they have multiple alters.

Some alters can be DID and form a system within the system or a "sub-system".

We can also call "sub-systems" different groups of alters who are not aware of the other groups / have a lot of difficulties being aware of the other groups.

A longer article about sub-systems can be found here: https://did-research.org/did/alters/systems.html

--Zami--

So of the one's that are known about/named within our system...one of them COULD (not saying any do) but COULD be DID too, just that one alter?

so therefore could any alter have any condition (or BELIEVE they have) that the other alters don't have or don't believe they have and the physical body might not have? In our case I'm wondering if that would explain different alters having different disabilities? (or maybe they are more focused particularly on ONE aspect of the bodies health issues?) eg Thea focusing completely on the hearing loss when young, Kit focusing more on the autism aspect etc.

I'll have a read of that thanks!

KitMcDaydream wrote:So of the one's that are known about/named within our system...one of them COULD (not saying any do) but COULD be DID too, just that one alter?

so therefore could any alter have any condition (or BELIEVE they have) that the other alters don't have or don't believe they have and the physical body might not have? In our case I'm wondering if that would explain different alters having different disabilities? (or maybe they are more focused particularly on ONE aspect of the bodies health issues?) eg Thea focusing completely on the hearing loss when young, Kit focusing more on the autism aspect etc.

I'll have a read of that thanks!

We have a few sub-systems. Wrath is part of a sub-system including a younger Wrath and a toddler Pride. It turns out Isaïa and Reyna might be a sub-system too.

We also have a lot of "insiders" (alters who stay "inside") including a lot of little-aged fragments. But I would not consider them a "sub-system".

Regarding disabilities, I have a lot more dyspraxia than most. Zami is much more autistic than the rest of us. Envy, Zami and David had eating disorders the rest of us never had. Uriel is much more depressive than most. The type of PTSD and the triggers that hurt us the most, are different for each of us.

If David does push-ups, he can make the double than what Lust does, with our physical body.

Yes, every alter is a different person with their specific traits.

Going back to sub-systems, it can be complicated to find a way to communicate through them. Assigning members of each sub-system as communication agents, or setting somme Innerworld communication system, might help ease up some issues.

oOo van H. oOo

ArbreMonde wrote:
We also have a lot of "insiders" (alters who stay "inside") including a lot of little-aged fragments. But I would not consider them a "sub-system".

Regarding disabilities, I have a lot more dyspraxia than most. Zami is much more autistic than the rest of us. Envy, Zami and David had eating disorders the rest of us never had. Uriel is much more depressive than most. The type of PTSD and the triggers that hurt us the most, are different for each of us.

If David does push-ups, he can make the double than what Lust does, with our physical body.

Yes, every alter is a different person with their specific traits.

Going back to sub-systems, it can be complicated to find a way to communicate through them. Assigning members of each sub-system as communication agents, or setting somme Innerworld communication system, might help ease up some issues.

oOo van H. oOo

I wonder if there's more on the inside who don't want to be known or maybe 'the system' has decided it's enough for us to cope with to understand that we've had 6 (for now) Maybe there's too many to name and/or sort and they don't want to have to since we posted on here and gave the ones known about names!

Our body also had symptoms of dyspraxia as a child but physio seemed to help that initially and we could walk, run and ride a bike up to the bodies mid 30's. (never mastered driving or swimming though regardless of who was 'up front' and always had severe difficulty physically getting words out when speaking out loud to people leading to an intense phobia of speaking in public throughout life)

As relationships and social communication still seemed by far our biggest issue even as an adult with years experience of living with others our dx was Autism. (we had no major physical difficulties at the time of the autism dx). They're a bit more obvious now as we've got older and also have arthritis starting in knees and hips - pain seems to throw us off balance a lot easier when trying to get back up or walk when the pain/stiffness levels are bad.

Our mobility levels can varying wildy throughout the day so maybe we have subsystems who can't decide who is going to be upfront? Maybe what I know as 6 alters are actually the 6 leaders of each system? ...who knows??? (though I suspect the child alters are more emotional memory parts as they only seem to trigger via specific activities enjoyed in childhood). Maybe fights 'on the inside' has been the reason we have struggled so much the last few years and alters have finally been revealed to us?