Can past alters re-invent themselves?

Sarandipity wrote:Hi Kit,

Yes, that's what I mean. So it could be a past alter. Have you got any communication with them?

when they come up to nearer the front we can communicate thoughts to each other but Thea and Maddie have not been around for years.

The 'presence' is not constant ...its kinda like someone sneaking down a long hall to see if they can see or hear better whats going on outside, then realising the person they're watching has sensed them there, they've slipped back down the hall again.

I feel it's someone from way back...the reason cos recently I've been trying to get some serious sorting out done and found a box of stuff from when we moved here that hadn't even been unpacked.

In it were little ornaments that were my mums off her welsh dresser, a scrap book she had made for me when I was little filled with cards and pictures she had cut out of magazines with poems and little statements written inside (all stuff was over 30yrs old!). I could feel the presence again, then we found a case of old vinyl records with our teen collection of records in..OMG! suddenly someone inside was super excited!!! ...but then gutted cos we didn't have anything to play them on.

They say fate is strange sometimes and I'm sure me and sibling have some weird psychic link cos just as I was thinking ''awwhh we haven't got a record player anymore to play them" they messaged us to ask if there was anything we wanted for our birthday! ...told them about finding my old record collection and they offered to buy us a little turntable with built in speakers. They've got bluetooth too now so can also stream music from playlists through the speakers.

we can't wait now to be able to be able to relive our teen music, total trip down memory lane and the presence felt really strong. It has to be an alter that was around for that period and if so would be one of the first 'consistant alters' (around regularly in that era) but before Thea became the 'full time alter' for over 15 years.

I've narrowed it down to somewhere between Bobby (at around 10) to before Sioux developed in later teens but before Thea. It could still be 'Daisy' or if she is the 'original' an alter she created in her mind at that age? As a random guess based on the records they felt most excited by (and the years they were originally released) I think the alter is around 12yrs old.

Is it a coincidence the last alter before puberty started would begin to emerge as I'm going through the peri-menopause and hormone levels are winding back down??? I mean its just a guess at this stage they still haven't introduced themselves fully.

Would it be possible for something like a young girl's menstrual cycle starting to cause the last (pre-teen) child alter to be supressed until the body hit menopause?

~ I don't know. Maybe it's a coincidence because you opened the boxes of memories from back then? Or maybe it's the other way around: your hormones change so the young one feels safer to come out now?

~ Can't wait to learn more about it all! ^_^

~Theia~

ArbreMonde wrote:~ I don't know. Maybe it's a coincidence because you opened the boxes of memories from back then? Or maybe it's the other way around: your hormones change so the young one feels safer to come out now?

~ Can't wait to learn more about it all! ^_^

~Theia~

We've been thinking about this for days and between a certain age(8-13) we were ..or identified with 'tomboy' characters who were female but preferred not to dress so girly. We've always liked names that were 'unisex' (though may now be called gender-neutral) but we never had any desire to have male anatomy anymore than we wanted the changes to our body.

Is it possible if the child alter before the body started changing, identified with what would now be called 'gender-neutral' that the physical changes in the body (developing breasts and periods) were enough to cause that alter to disappear? ..along with parents telling us we were then too old to be a tomboy cos we were growing up into a young woman! )

We also specifically remember wanting a bike that was considered a 'boys bike' back then after we had out grown the kind of more neutral younger child's 'Tomahawk', but was not allowed. I guess family felt we were getting too old to be pretending to be a boy but looking back it was never about that as we never to become male anymore than we wanted to 'become a young lady'.

Interestingly all the video games characters that are/were our favourites are the ones where they could be either male or female, not the obviously very masculine or very feminine ones. So prefer the final fantasy stories like FF9 where the characters are more cartoon like and some even non-human rather than the later ones where the female characters are highly sexualised with big boobs and hardly any clothes on.

Is it a coincidence Bobby first' came forwards' after getting Breath of the Wild where Link can change the colour of his clothes, wear different outfits and can be dressed in a way that you can't instantly tellwhether the character is male or female (if you didn't know) and that this coincided with my first symptoms of peri menopause and hormone levels changes. Lost weight off my chest too so its easier to hide the body shape under baggy clothes. Taste in clothes and favourite colours have changed too since Maddie left.

Talking from what we experience here, being able to bind chest, wear a packer, have non-binary clothes or make-up style or hair style... helps a lot of us to be more comfortable.

Our host is non-binary, a lot of us in here are masculine or agender with a male pronoun. When society forces feminity onto us, it feels very wrong. We need to do the feminine thing, only when we want to, not when the society tells us to.

Therefore, having alters showing up or hiding inside according to how comfortable the body feels to them, is not far-fetched in my opinion. Our opinion?


#Uriel# mostly, with --Zami-- and ~Theia~ close

ArbreMonde wrote:
Therefore, having alters showing up or hiding inside according to how comfortable the body feels to them, is not far-fetched in my opinion. Our opinion?


#Uriel# mostly, with --Zami-- and ~Theia~ close

That makes sense. We've been looking through old photo's and can see even though the physical body is actually basically the same but at different ages which alter was up front from their clothes and the way they're posing. Never looked at the old photo's in this way before - interesting.

The body is female obviously, we never had any issue being referred to as she, maybe thats the very logical brain, the body is biologically female so therefore 'she/her' are the correct pronouns. But as I said being gender-neutral was not a thing in the 70's - not in a small isolated village anyway where no-one knew such things existed! ..and no-one would have known multiple personalities existed or that they could be present in a child. Heck - They didn't even realise I had Autism! ..or maybe they did but just never told me! I was in my late twenties by the time a psychologist told me I had autism and I had enough awareness to understand what that meant! (though on a very basic level).

I think Daisy represents the younger self, as a child obviously we were dressed by our parents so Daisy is typical of a little girl in the way she dressed. Bobby represents a bit older child but still under teens before the body changes, the body is still young and small and they started to show preference over trousers and shorts than dresses and skirts and riding bikes and climbing rather than playing with Barbie dolls and 'dress-up'! (though we still had to wear a dress for sunday school and church every week). We identified with 'George' the tomboy from the Famous Five with their dog Timmy.

We remember having a desire to be called 'Jacqueline' at some point (though it didn't last) and although we still preferred to dress more' boyish' we preferred to shorten it to Jacquie rather than Jack, then there were some twins briefly (they didn't stick around long either) I think one was in the body more (well..'up front') and was more tomboyish of the two. Maybe the system was experimenting at that age? (teens) with who maybe best up front to help the intensely shy, noise phobic 'self' who was lost somewhere in amongst them all?

These were all before the experience of 'going deaf' and then Thea evolving and taking over 'full time' for next 15 + years to get us through college, uni, work. After this there only ever two present the 'me' that emerged when I was alone in my bedroom and the one that coped with leaving the bedroom and dealt with the outside world. Kit actually emerged before Maddie but some of those memories were intially lost due to experiencing some kind of breakdown/meltdown due to the pressure at uni. we managed to complete the degree but were dx with autism shortly after returning home. The memories of that period are incomplete.

Maddie evolved after some kind of thyroid storm caused major neurological issues and left the body in a wheelchair and us having to relearn how to walk and talk. Maddie seemed stuck in the initial period though and unable to move forwards and realise the body had relearned to walk. No-one seems to remember how or when that happened exactly but Kit started to re-emerge too eventually Kit's personality taking over Maddie's and being up front all the time unless Maddie was needed to meet specific people. By this time we were in our 40's and just learning that autism presented different in females, that PDA existed and so did DID, and having our first menopausal symptoms!


It's been a real roller-coaster of a learning curve! and we do often feel confused about who we really are!

Hi Kit,

just wanted to add something real fast; that we have changed over time too. it's nothing to worry about and it's something that happens often in systems from what I've read on DID info sites and stuff (I'm sorry I don't remember the precise source but was probably one of the big ones). it happened to us at least 6 times already that we're sure of from when we exist, and it is indeed often to better adapt to our actual life conditions (us changing in age, appearance, species, role, etc.).

also, it is difficult for us too to pinpoint the history of everyone in the system, and also it's generally difficult to be 100% sure about who you all really are I think. we have this tendency to think about the "why"s too much, or at least more than it is necessary. answers tend to come as we go, without us even thinking about them. it's okay! you have time to understand everything with your own pace.

just wanted to say this. good luck with everything!

Mi

exul wrote:Hi Kit,

just wanted to add something real fast; that we have changed over time too. it's nothing to worry about and it's something that happens often in systems from what I've read on DID info sites and stuff (I'm sorry I don't remember the precise source but was probably one of the big ones). it happened to us at least 6 times already that we're sure of from when we exist, and it is indeed often to better adapt to our actual life conditions (us changing in age, appearance, species, role, etc.).

also, it is difficult for us too to pinpoint the history of everyone in the system, and also it's generally difficult to be 100% sure about who you all really are I think. we have this tendency to think about the "why"s too much, or at least more than it is necessary. answers tend to come as we go, without us even thinking about them. it's okay! you have time to understand everything with your own pace.

just wanted to say this. good luck with everything!


Mi

Thanks for your reply. I guess it makes sense that a system could change in response to what was happening 'in the real world!'.

There is a tendency to over-examine things to the nth degree but usually only by Kit and I noticed our 'intense posts' often coincide with what time of the month we were at. There definitely seems to be some hormonal link there between who comes forward and their behaviour when they're 'up front'.

We're trying to relearn sketching so Kit can focus on the detail/technical ability involved there which would really advance the bodies ability to draw. Ironically it can often be very difficult to get Kit to focus on things that are outside her 'areas of obsession' at any given particular point in time!

ArbreMonde wrote:~ I don't know. Maybe it's a coincidence because you opened the boxes of memories from back then? Or maybe it's the other way around: your hormones change so the young one feels safer to come out now?

~ Can't wait to learn more about it all! ^_^

~Theia~

I've got it! Something you said in reply to another post actually !

QUOTE

"Core, in this context, means that she is the center of the system, everybody and everything is connected to her in a way. (some use "core" to mean "the original person", some use it to mean other things... in here, we use it to mean "the one at the center of everything")

Yes, she was "born" with this ability. It is what she was "made" to be. She is a dryad, and her tree contains the Innerworld. She is a bit like "the soul of the system". I am the host or if you prefer, the "front desk""

Been called some names in my time but never a 'front desk' lol! but your absolutely spot on!

It's Daisy whose coming forwards but as a slightly older child, she's wanting to relive some of the favourite parts (such as her favourite music) and going birdwatching, but still seems to want to be 'the secret self' who the rest of the world do not know exists.

I'm glad I was able to help!

Actually I got the "front desk" idea from somewhere else (Kinhost maybe?). But it did resonnate strongly.

It's interesting to see that Daisy wants to stay "hidden" and "secret" while others are more out-going. A system is a really complex and diverse community!

Is it okay if I say "hi" to Daisy?

--Zami--