Rough time with therapy lately

Hi Gang,

We're sorry that you're going through this. Please know that we care, and that we hope that you're able to resolve this issue soon.

MDs

Thank you, MDs. I really appreciate it. Our T is going to write to us tomorrow, so we'll see what happens.

what we do is pay attention to the lesson from the current situation first and see how it matches trauma situations. we break it down in small sentences. like maybe: what matters to me gets violated, I am not worth being treated gently (or seriously?), nobody cares enough to listen properly, what I need is overlooked, other peoples needs are more important than my needs...
then we can look at the sentences and ask ourselves what kind of need they are talking about.
like the need to be safe, not just physically but emotionally too. the need for genuine care and gentleness, the need to be heard and understood, the need to be seen and to be authentic, the need to be important and respected etc.
some of these things become intensely painful because we experienced them as little children and the need was not met. some stuff is more important for babies than it is for adults because not getting it means that survival is not guaranteed. so things like interpersonal safety, nurturing or a sense of being heard and responded to come with the intensity of survival behind it when this gets triggred.

if you go with the polyvagal theory then being wet is a cue of danger. babies only know distress and satisfaction and danger surely leads to distress that will just intensify when the care taking is rough too.

My first thought reading was that he's trying to get you to learn it's ok to be close to people and taking it to a playful level is the next step in that. It doesn't sound like it's working.

In psychotherapy we felt "re-mothered" and it did help. She taught us to mother ourselves. So with "No-one" being very much from the past and having had no therapy it's helping to do that with her. We don't really know how the therapist "re-mothered" us but it's how we felt and when she retired it was kind of like she died although obviously we knew she just retired but it was like she died, like our mother died and we then had to mother ourselves.

She wasn't personally over close though. She kept good boundaries. She joked appropriately and never if something was upsetting. A defence we have is to laugh at our own misfortune and she didn't feed that, she taught us to recognise it as painful.

Being close to people did feel safer after that psychotherapy. But since No-one showed up plus other stuff it's come back "having stuff, feeling close to people is dangerous, liking anything, needing anything is dangerous"

The thing is, it is dangerous. It doesn't matter if the person is the best person in the world or you hide your favourite thing in a security vault at the bottom of an ocean because in life there is always risk of being hurt and of loss. What our psychotherapist taught us is that even knowing a person can get it wrong or hurt you, or you can fail, or loose things you love, is that to allow yourself those connections is to allow yourself a fuller life. That despite being unable to allow yourself that as a child you can choose to allow yourself that as an adult. And as an adult you can work out the risks. And as someone who has survived as a child you can survive as an adult. So it's a choice to connect or not.

It sounds like your therapist is trying to walk you into connection, telling you how the connection works and not letting you know it's a choice. It's a choice to connect or not and being as a connection takes two it's a negotiation on how the connection works not a given.

I've been up since 4 am and it's after 6, so there's probably no point in going back to bed and trying to wake up at 7:30 (this is all justification to myself for why I'm going to post here right now instead of sleeping ).

So, by Thursday evening, the T still hadn't written back, so we texted him to say that we were sticking with our plan to not come in on Friday. He emailed later on that night, and it was a very nice email--full of compassion for how much pain we were in and how hurt we've been in the past. It got through to some of the preverbal littles (I think) because we used the sandtray a little bit that night and it seemed like they felt like he cares about them.

BUT...it seemed like there was still a lot that the T wasn't getting that had to do with the details of what happened. And we still felt very upset about that all day Friday, so when we got home at 4 pm after our activities, we wrote him an email, and became more and more upset. He had talked about feeling sad that we still had such doubt in the nature of our relationship and that he knew we were worried that the relationship turn and that we would be hurt like we were in the past.

But that seemed to me like he wasn't understanding how hurt we WERE by what he did. Even though he didn't mean to hurt us, that was the outcome. It feels to parts, like Watcher, that the relationship DID turn, and Watcher has pulled way back--they're back to floating above us now, and they've pushed that internalized sense of the T out of us, and they're blocking us from feeling much of a sense of connection.

Things are very confused, and different parts seem to be taking over at different times in a way that I'm not following or understanding at all, but whoever wrote the email to him yesterday was very stuck on two things.

One was that they don't feel like the T apologized specifically for being "playful" at a time that ended up hurting us. We GET now that he wasn't teasing us or making fun of us or the subject, but no matter how much he says that smiling and being playful don't mean that he isn't taking the subject seriously, it FEELS that way to us. If someone is trying to talk about something difficult and sensitive, it's not a time to be making light of things, even if it's well-intentioned.

And in the three emails he wrote, he didn't specifically apologize for misjudging the situation, or not realizing how sensitive it was, and he never said that he would try to be more careful. Usually when he apologizes for something, part of it is saying that he will try not to do that again. After we sent the email, we went back and read all three of his emails, and some of us feel like he said he was sorry for his words, but someone(s) is(are) still feeling like he's saying that he can "just be playful whenever he wants no matter how we're feeling, and we just have to accept that that's how it will be."

The other thing they're stuck on, is the thing he had asked us that precipitated all of this, which was, "Are you talking about the chocolate bar with almonds or the one with hazelnuts?" He said later that he was asking if we were talking about the emoji or the actual chocolate bars, but the question made no sense to us. There never was a chocolate bar with almonds--we can't eat almonds. And we don't understand how we were supposed to read his mind and know that he thought of the emoji as a chocolate bar with almonds. He hasn't explained it, or apologized for being so confusing, even though we told him that's what we need.

We're SO young when we're there, and it takes a lot of focus to get our thoughts out and to take in what he's saying. Littles think of things very literally, and they feel upset that he "made up a chocolate bar with almonds when there never was one!!" And we don't have the capacity when we're there to try to get inside HIS head to know that he somehow thinks of the emoji as being a chocolate bar with almonds. To us, it's just a regular, generic chocolate bar.

And maybe this all seems like we're getting stuck on details, but his action of going out of his way to buy us chocolate bars with hazelnuts because we had said those were our favorite really meant a LOT to us, and especially to Watcher--it got through to them when nothing else had before, and when the T asked if we were talking about a kind of chocolate bar that we had specifically told him not to buy, it was very off-putting, especially because Watcher felt very sensitive about the whole topic.

Anyway, by the time we got to the end of the email, we were feeling like since he hadn't apologized for being "playful," and seemed to be saying that there wasn't anything wrong with him being playful, and had put in his email that he hoped 'in the near future we can, with genuine curiosity and openness, come to see and value each other's perspective," it felt like he was sticking to his point of view that it was ok to be playful like that whenever he wanted. And we can't accept that, and if that's true, we'll have to find a different T. We told him that and asked him if that's really what he meant, because the littles were heartbroken over it.

And after we sent the email, we started looking for other T's in our area, and we were crying a lot. The husband came home and was very concerned--we showed him some of the exchange, and he offered to come with us to the next appointment for support. He also said that he thought the T would "get it" from what we wrote.

We were still upset though, and even sent the T a text later on because we couldn't stop crying. And there was definitely someone young who was taking over more than usual because we were literally having trouble making our thumbs hit the right letters, and that's never happened before. The text was specifically about those two things--"Do you get to be playful whenever you want no matter how we're feeling?" and "Can't you say you're sorry for saying there was a chocolate bar with almonds when you just made it up and there wasn't one??" We asked him to write back to it last night, but he didn't, which is upsetting the littles a lot. But some of us know that means that he just didn't have time.

Anyway, that's where we are at almost 7 am. There is a lot planned for today, and I'm so upset that my day is going to be messed up by getting so little sleep and maybe having to nap later.

this is rough and I am sorry. I wish that would have had different results.
How is everyone coping? Will you take your husband with you next time?
Have you considered bringing it to the level of needs and life lessons? Would that still be helpful?

TheGangsAllHere wrote:And in the three emails he wrote, he didn't specifically apologize for misjudging the situation, or not realizing how sensitive it was, and he never said that he would try to be more careful. Usually when he apologizes for something, part of it is saying that he will try not to do that again. After we sent the email, we went back and read all three of his emails, and some of us feel like he said he was sorry for his words, but someone(s) is(are) still feeling like he's saying that he can "just be playful whenever he wants no matter how we're feeling, and we just have to accept that that's how it will be."

It's not okay for him to use a playful approach in your therapy. It doesn't work for your system. It messes you up, it confuses and hurts some of you. It doesn't matter why or how. If you make that clear and he doesn't or can't change, at least you'll know that that's the issue: T may have heard you but he can't change his behavior (or won't).

Some of us have playfulness (or a lack of constant seriousness?) woven into how we interact with people in the world, its part of our personality so turning it off isn't easy but we've learned to do it for some people, when we understand it makes things difficult for them. In our job we've had to interact regularly with some high-functioning people with schizophrenia or on the autistic spectrum and our 'playfulness' doesn't works for them. Therapists have to be much better than most people at modulating their behavior and communications.

We're SO young when we're there, and it takes a lot of focus to get our thoughts out and to take in what he's saying. Littles think of things very literally, and they feel upset that he "made up a chocolate bar with almonds when there never was one!!" And we don't have the capacity when we're there to try to get inside HIS head to know that he somehow thinks of the emoji as being a chocolate bar with almonds. To us, it's just a regular, generic chocolate bar.

This really struck me. Does T know this, that much (most? all?) of the time you're in therapy you're not an adult or not just an adult? It's true that kids and littles take a lot of things literally, that's normal and a T of someone with DID (or of a young child) needs to modulate their behavior because of that.

And maybe this all seems like we're getting stuck on details...

I don't think so. These "details" are therapy, they belong in therapy. A huge part of successful therapy for most people, DID or not, is working on interpersonal relationships and communication. Making yourself understood, trying new ways of saying things, identifying then asking for what you need, being able to express what you're feeling to someone else, asking the other person to treat you in a way you need to be treated.

birdsong87 wrote:this is rough and I am sorry. I wish that would have had different results.
How is everyone coping? Will you take your husband with you next time?
Have you considered bringing it to the level of needs and life lessons? Would that still be helpful?

birdsong--thank you so much for your kind words. I read your post before I heard back from the T, and it was very comforting. I really appreciate your support.

Johnny-Jack, your response was very helpful and highlighted the most important things that I needed back from the T. The T finally understood what we needed him to say and wrote back in the late morning yesterday. Our internal response was to immediately feel better--like we were heard and understood, and reconnected with someone who really cares and is committed to responding the way we need him to.

We had sent him the post that we made early yesterday morning, so hopefully it will sink in, if it hasn't already, how young we are there. It is almost ALWAYS littles in front, and when it isn't, they are still there watching and listening, and feeling like others are using up "their" time to be with him. Even when he writes to us, it needs to be clear enough for the littles to understand, unless it's about something they're not really interested in.

He was apparently never saying, or meaning, that he could just be playful whenever he wants--I guess the fact that he didn't specifically apologize for it in the first three emails was one of the things that some of the littles were really stuck on. He said in the 4th email that he will try to only be playful at times when I can appreciate it, and not when I'm trying to talk about something serious, and also that he is committed to being careful with his phrasing, tone, and demeanor. He also apologized for his part in all the confusion that followed from what he said, and laid out what he was hoping to explore when he asked that question about the chocolate bars.

So, we asked to see him tomorrow morning, and he agreed. There are some of us who don't want to potentially become upset again, or even expend the effort involved in being in the room with him tomorrow and then again on Friday, and would rather not get up at 6:30 and then drive 35 miles each way to see him before proceeding with the rest of our plans for the day, but there is a strong wave of need from the littles to be with him and reconnect in person, so we're going along with it.

I think we'll try to be careful and calm there, just focus on being present, and maybe discuss the things that we wanted to talk about last Friday before everything got derailed.

Hi, Gang. We hear how much pain you've been going through with all of this. You seem to be very clear on exactly what you need from your T, and understandably upset when he doesn't seem to hear these needs or sufficiently acknowledge them.

We hope that things go better when you see him in person next time. Good luck.

MDs

Thanks, MDs. It helps that we'll see him twice this week, so there will be less pressure tomorrow about how little time we have with him. Some of us think we should plan what to talk about, and others just want to be there with him without having to remember some kind of plan. Maybe I'll just see if the littles want to show or tell him about things they've been doing--I think that helps them feel connected with him, and that's the main goal for tomorrow.

MakersDozn wrote:You seem to be very clear on exactly what you need from your T, and understandably upset when he doesn't seem to hear these needs or sufficiently acknowledge them.

Well, what I need isn't always clear right away--it takes time to figure out and articulate in a way that he can understand. But that process IS very painful. I think there's always a wish for the kind of connection we never had, where an infant's needs are quickly and reliably understood by a caregiver and taken care of, and when there's a big gap in time now between expressing a need and having it met, it feels like it never will be, and that probably brings up a lot of early feelings from when they weren't met and we were overwhelmed.

Maybe that's what birdsong was talking about with survival needs? Because at a basic level this whole interaction with the T was like an infant letting a caregiver know that something was wrong, and them trying something to meet what they thought the need was, but getting it wrong, or only partly right, and having the baby keep crying, and then trying again, and getting it wrong again, and meanwhile the baby is crying louder and louder because something is still hurting them.

I guess my early experience was either being left to cry it out since they did what they thought was the right thing and it was my fault for not responding. Or worse, them becoming frustrated and angry at me for still being upset and scaring me into stopping. Probably more often the first one.