Ty (about loss)

No-one lost someone - Ty - I can't say for sure it's an internal person or if it was somebody she spoke to online or somewhere because parts have done that so it could be either.

Either way to her it's a real loss. A while ago she spent a whole day listening to music and crying over him. Apparently that was the day of his funeral or funeral for him because he became a woman. Today she got upset and played "I'll be missing you" the Tupac version, thinking about Ty.

It's like a real grief to her. To me it's like grieving somebody who doesn't exist seeing as I was present too but to her it's inline with how I felt when my real life cousin died. She remembered him, got emotional thinking about him and remembered he used to say "remember we're gangsters" and he said the N word alot but that was the gist of it. Again because of the gangster reference I'm thinking it's internal but still the loss is real to her. She's cagey on if he died or had a sex change to become a woman and therefore isn't Ty anymore and is living a new life. Still to her Ty is dead and she's still grieving.

It kind of seems really messed up that I have no experience of a person, Ty, who is causing part of me to grieve. Also if he's a woman now can't she still be friends with him? Maybe I don't get the whole thing at all.

How normal is this with DID, the greif part of somebody unknown who is possibly internal? Also parts don't usually die in this system so if Ty is a part he probably can't stay dead but the greif is real for her (No-one).

Internal is as real for them as external is for us who can't get in. It does cause real emotions, of course it does, they experience those things with all senses and emotions. How come you not know that? We have "always" had relationship inside the system, parts dating each other. They do feel real love, desire and affection, feelings I have never felt. I still know how they can feel like, because I've felt it when they feel it.

I don't understand what logic there is behind the thought our feelings are true only towards outside people, but not inside the system? We have deep feelings in our system. I've never felt loved and accepted by an outside person, or comforted by one, but I felt it when Sami came and hugged me when I was missing him. It was first time I felt someone heard me and really cared how I feel like, did not judge anything or explain anything that makes it lesser. I was missing him because we used to spend so much time together when he wrote in here as well. Now he tries to stay far enough when I write it doesn't affect my thinking, that there would be no passive influence from him, because he left the forum and comes only if we ask him to. He came and hugged me to show we have the bond, it's not disappeared because we don't spend time together like we used to for awhile. He knew I can feel how he feels about me when he hugged me, and did not say anything. It was the first time I've ever felt comforted by someone. Now I know how it could've felt to be loved child, because I know I have never had anyone caring about me like that before, being there just for me.

I feel pure love when I feel Jules close to me, different kind of affection than with Sami, but very deep affection, way deeper that ever for any outsider. The kind I think you can feel for a child. It's so strong it physically feels in my chest. I hope I can give him same feeling Sami gave me, when I hug him, just to tell he means a world to me.

Not all parts are as close to each other than some are, for some it's just mutual respect and they don't seek for more.

And yes, I can not get inside, so in a way these things between me and other parts have happened outside, but they do not stop feeling when they go in. I remember how difficult it was when long time ago in different life Sami and Ferro were together, and there was domestic violence in their relationship. Ferro gets flashbacks when he's very violent. It was so difficult for both of them, because he could not stop it, when it happens to him he thinks he's in war and has no understanding where he is in reality and with whom. And he's the sweetest guy ever, who'd not ever wanna hurt anyone he cares about. It was too difficult to continue, they both recreated themselves, now Ferro is 14 and he's straight, and things between them kind of never happened. Then they were both adults, on their 20's. They're the ones with mutual respect now, kind of allies but not friends. There's probably a reason why it's best that way, that they don't try to be closer to each other. I don't think recreation fully takes things away from their pasts. Because of them I also understand why you can stay with someone who is dangerously violent, and how it feels like to regret things you've done that you feel you never could do, but still did.

That's why it was so hard for me to try to have normal life outside, because there's huge things going on inside and feelings that I can not talk about to anyone. And how I had nothing normal to say, but telling their things as my reality would've been straight out lying. It was different when I had no identity and all I was, was them. It all happened inside, but it was our life and the feelings were certainly real, for me too. And I was just experiencing it from outside.

I get that it's real for the inside, it was sureal for me. For something internal to express it's self externally. If that makes sense.

I know about but have not experienced because I'm not them, when Patrick would hold Rose when she was in the body. When Karen died she was in the body and Beth held her and then we had "an extreme migraine" that's what the doctor said and went numb and couldn't move properly down one side but we knew it was Karen who had died in the body.

I know about that stuff but haven't experienced it. So when No-one was externally grieving, most probably, an internal part it was sureal. Didn't make sense in that body and internal are quite seperate. There's like a body amnesia often times and details of internal happenings stay there so to have an external expression of internal grief that felt so real in the body was odd. For me anyway.

I get when Karen died and Beth grieved because that happened in the body. She did eventually come back but then regressed with the recent crisis which is better than dieing. I get the loss Beth felt because her and Karen fronted together for so long and the grief was really external even though it was between parts because it happened in the body. But an internal grief of a part I've never met, know nothing about, expressed externally was odd. Then I started thinking of things Ty says which was probably No-one trying to link me to him or get to know him "it's always biblical" for example. He liked to say things like "s#!t is gonna get biblical" if somebody crossed him. He didn't trust anyone, made no allowances for anyone but him and No-one had a strong bond and the illusive abused part he also was there for, his view was she should just "live her life" "F all that sh!t and live your life" She would apparently occasionally be around.

The weirdest feeling of all of this is that he was not actually internal, it feels like he was someone "I" as in other parts knew externally. Somebody they had alot of respect for and an affiliation, stronger than that, a deeper understanding of because where we struggle with parts he struggled with being a woman trapped in a man's body. I'm getting upset, tearful again, thinking about him and I don't even know him but then if he is internal I guess I know him in a deeper way than knowing him - I feel his loss or I'm just connected to parts who feel his loss.

It's not about it being real inside. It's about it being expressed externally when it was solely an inside thing. Unless I was Ty but I dunno about that, that seems very unlikely but that's the only possible outside inside link I can see. To be fair the feeling of him feels like when Karen would know somebody really well and because of her borderline tendancies take on aspects of them. He feels external. If he is external then it makes sense for the grief to come out externally but that seems far fetched because as far as I know nobody has been talking to outside people behind our own backs for years so practically not possible.

There's information broadcast, like when the part kept repeating "I blew up the world" after phoning the police on my father and the internal world was blown up. That came outside from inside. But being upset about internal stuff externally, not usually.

Maybe it means there's a stronger link between the internal world and external world now that this has happened. Peter had his Ferrari motorbike stolen, I know because somebody told me. He's not on the criminal side of things but the twins use him to hold cash and assets but the bike was his. I asked him if he was upset and he wasn't, he's not big on possessions, he's like some kind of monk. He helps the twins because although he knows their money isn't always clean they use most of it for good causes. But when his bike got stolen the twins took it personally and said the person will die on it. They do good causes but crossing them is bad. So sometimes I hear stuff but it's not the emotions of it, it's the facts. If I just heard "Ty had a sex change" or "Ty died" "No-one is really upset plus it means the gangs he run are in problems or could become problems so she's busy then that's normal. For No-one to greive externally is odd. For the illusive alter to say how much she liked his attitude to things "just live your life regardless" is odd. But perhaps they want more connection with me and the outside so sharing the emotions as well as the facts achieves that. It's still pretty sketchy what happened to Ty, it's like they're not 100% sure and they need to get to the bottom of it which the twins will. Cartel drugs go to loads of gangs and the twins had moved out of all that, left it to No-one but with Ty (whatever happened), the Ty problem they're calling it, they have to look into it and because it's Noone, not because of money. A bit like Peters bike, it's loyalty and principal. But then with the twins something else could be going on, they removed him and paid for the sex change, made it look like he's dead because they have other things for him to do. He was a very smart and down to earth person. Which they won't leave No-one not knowing forever and if it's the case he's still alive they will make him sort his gangs out regardless even though somebody else was supposed to be taking care of the specifics in which case they're in trouble. But that's all internal and the current state of play is No-one is greiving and won't say if he had a sex change or is dead. I think she knows but without the twins giving the ok she won't say anything. They take this very seriously, as you know because you have an internal system, and Ty (whatever happened) potentially is gang warfare on principle and they take their time in investigation, deciding what to do and action. So it could be a while before I know anything of that but No-one has shared the emotion. Still it could even be that Ty crossed them, No-one would still grieve because she liked him. The illusive part has written him off as dead without where or whys so she's no help and not particularly greiving because to her it's a fact of life - loss, death etc, whatever form it takes.

Anyway it was odd it being expressed externally emotionally. But perhaps it is just to build stronger links between the internal and external. And I can't have stronger system connections without emotional connections to the inside. Your reply made me see it that way so thank you.

For us it's the opposite way things happening now, I feel less of their stuff and am more clearly in here, in outside world an more clearly myself, not half way one of them. I used to be halfway most of the time since teenager, not fully in but not in here either. I'm becoming more external, at the begin of the therapy 45 minutes was the longest time I could go without thinking at all about others or hearing their thought about something and be distracted. I could not watch a movie and see all of it, because somehow some of it was gonna leak inside and they comment on that and then I'm thinking about the situation inside where that thing in the movie happened to them/they saw it.

Now I can go way longer. I choose to think them now, t's not something that keeps distracting me from everything I try to do like it used to. Now I can concentrate on something and do outside stuff better. I still don't have energy to do it more, but I have the ability to stay out and concentrated if needed. Longest time I went without feeling them was full weekend, but it's not our goal for me to be out and them stay in, not more than it's a goal I'm not anywhere fully. We want the communication, that we didn't have before at all. We want them outside too, not me inside. I look signs of them from myself, from external self and body to realize when they're close. I can scan inside too sometimes, not into the inner world, but for them who are closer and we create communication, instead of me being nobody and nowhere and they're the main characters of all life, but still don't come out as themselves. All that made inside more real for us than the outside.

I have feelings in the body sometimes, but I don't know who they belong to and what's wrong. It has happened now several times when I'm in bus on my way home from somewhere, casually using my phone, reading some news etc. not feeling a lot myself. Then my body feels like it's about to start to cry. I doesn't come out fully, it's like the start of the cry, deep breathing bu-hu-hu and lungs are all out of air but then I breath in normally and it stops there for awhile, and the bu-hu-hu out breathing comes couple of times. Sometimes eyes water, sometimes it's just the breathing that's crying-like. I don't know who is upset and why, but it's happened couple of times now and always in same kind of situation. I don't think it has to do with what I'm reading, first I thought so because I was reading something sad, but next times not. I think there's something abut traveling by bus, or with going home, or it happening when it's dark outside, because those are the elements that have been there every time.

That doesn't come with the actual feeling, I think in it there would be maybe some info what is it about, with feelings we usually get the reason for the feeling too. But this is just physical reaction that is not mine.

If Ty was a part that gets recreated, I do get the sorrow. They can be so different after that, they're not the same. There's something that makes them still them, but so many things can change it does mean the old way of being with someone won't be there anymore. you can get to know the new person that has some of the same characteristics, but it's more like having a twin of a person you actually want, not the same one. They won't say same things or behave same way. It's new relationship with new different person. Sex change in recreation is huge thing, it's not like someone going thru the treatment to fix their sex to mach their gender, because then it's still the same person, only the sex changes. The new part can be any age too.

Lucas feels sorry for the loss and sends .. something .. to No One. I quite didn't get what. He thought of a hug, but didn't know if she likes to be touched or not and .. but he sent something anyway. IDK, maybe it was opportunity to hug she can use or not and choose the presence of him just being there instead if she'd like that. It was kind of like in picture form what he thought, and then it disappeared. He's not fully aware or I'm not, in trying to communicate to each other.

You don't think this has anything to do with the take over Paul was planning against the twins?

Floralie wrote:For us it's the opposite way things happening now, I feel less of their stuff and am more clearly in here, in outside world an more clearly myself, not half way one of them. I used to be halfway most of the time since teenager, not fully in but not in here either. I'm becoming more external, at the begin of the therapy 45 minutes was the longest time I could go without thinking at all about others or hearing their thought about something and be distracted. I could not watch a movie and see all of it, because somehow some of it was gonna leak inside and they comment on that and then I'm thinking about the situation inside where that thing in the movie happened to them/they saw it.

Now I can go way longer. I choose to think them now, t's not something that keeps distracting me from everything I try to do like it used to. Now I can concentrate on something and do outside stuff better. I still don't have energy to do it more, but I have the ability to stay out and concentrated if needed. Longest time I went without feeling them was full weekend, but it's not our goal for me to be out and them stay in, not more than it's a goal I'm not anywhere fully. We want the communication, that we didn't have before at all. We want them outside too, not me inside. I look signs of them from myself, from external self and body to realize when they're close. I can scan inside too sometimes, not into the inner world, but for them who are closer and we create communication, instead of me being nobody and nowhere and they're the main characters of all life, but still don't come out as themselves. All that made inside more real for us than the outside.

I have feelings in the body sometimes, but I don't know who they belong to and what's wrong. It has happened now several times when I'm in bus on my way home from somewhere, casually using my phone, reading some news etc. not feeling a lot myself. Then my body feels like it's about to start to cry. I doesn't come out fully, it's like the start of the cry, deep breathing bu-hu-hu and lungs are all out of air but then I breath in normally and it stops there for awhile, and the bu-hu-hu out breathing comes couple of times. Sometimes eyes water, sometimes it's just the breathing that's crying-like. I don't know who is upset and why, but it's happened couple of times now and always in same kind of situation. I don't think it has to do with what I'm reading, first I thought so because I was reading something sad, but next times not. I think there's something abut traveling by bus, or with going home, or it happening when it's dark outside, because those are the elements that have been there every time.

That doesn't come with the actual feeling, I think in it there would be maybe some info what is it about, with feelings we usually get the reason for the feeling too. But this is just physical reaction that is not mine.

If Ty was a part that gets recreated, I do get the sorrow. They can be so different after that, they're not the same. There's something that makes them still them, but so many things can change it does mean the old way of being with someone won't be there anymore. you can get to know the new person that has some of the same characteristics, but it's more like having a twin of a person you actually want, not the same one. They won't say same things or behave same way. It's new relationship with new different person. Sex change in recreation is huge thing, it's not like someone going thru the treatment to fix their sex to mach their gender, because then it's still the same person, only the sex changes. The new part can be any age too.

Lucas feels sorry for the loss and sends .. something .. to No One. I quite didn't get what. He thought of a hug, but didn't know if she likes to be touched or not and .. but he sent something anyway. IDK, maybe it was opportunity to hug she can use or not and choose the presence of him just being there instead if she'd like that. It was kind of like in picture form what he thought, and then it disappeared. He's not fully aware or I'm not, in trying to communicate to each other.

You don't think this has anything to do with the take over Paul was planning against the twins?

I didn't even think of that, Paul's take over. That was an idea somebody on the ASPD forum gave him. He thought about it but he ruled it out. Then he had a heartattack. He was much more concerned about our external life at the time, getting to therapy specifically for DID, which is still the current goal.

Parts of me when they take over the body get a body amnesia. They quickly forget inside. They pick up outside and usually carry on except for occasionally like when Paul's sister Lilly ended up in the body and didn't bother to go to work and went to the Disney store instead.

My life was built around Rose, Patrick, Karen and Beth sharing the body and time equally with Mandy being around when possible. We lived like that for years. When we got a long term bf he noticed differences in me as a person. Rose is very uptight but Patrick dealt with arguments she got into and one time the bf said "I don't feel like I'm arguing with you anymore. I feel like I'm arguing with your husband" which was basically what happened. Mandy told the bf all about parts, I think it was Mandy, and he wanted to know who I was all the time. Which I didn't like. At a restaurant one time he got upset to the point of tears because he said he went into the restaurant with one person and left with another and felt like that person had died. They hadn't, Mandy and No-one went in but Rose walked out. We explained to him. Because he listened to parts more parts came forward. The overlord I hadn't heard from since therapy when the twins decided if we're going to have a full and simple life then the overlord needs an internal job to keep him busy - he's very, I don't know the right words, into fantasy and can be over powering externally. But even the overlord came to see who this bf was that spotted parts. Then other parts came and told the bf about being abused by the parents. The bf told other parts of me what these parts had said. That put pressure on external life, panic over my childrens safety consumed and a part called the police and "blew up the world" Crisis, hospital.

Now "my" life is basically "mine" - no time share, Paul and No-one and Grey come as needed. Grey is very calming. I knew nothing of him except that sometimes I felt like a retired man - and it felt nice so I didn't question it. Grey hasn't been back since I became aware of him by name which is a shame. Rose etc aren't around.

I don't know if it'll go back to time share or what will happen but the driving force in me, which there always is one, is to stabilise life and get a DID diagnosis (which I've usually avoided) and get to a DID therapist. We're part way on life stability (again) and we have broached the DID with the psychiatrist. We're not rushing, the mind is a fragile thing. So as much as it's a driving force it needs to be done very carefully.

Thank you for your replies and insights. It helps me reflect and gives me a different perspective and you point out other possibilities. Ty dieing being part of a Paul take over is possible. Paul wanted an integral person, the ASPD guys suggested the twins secutary but they'd just rebuild her - she's a construct not a part. Ty was clearly integral in the internal world which I wouldn't know (whatever happened to him) but the twins won't kill Paul. They can't. Even in the internal world they are secretive, they run things through Paul internally and perhaps Ty also although they'd passed it to No-one obviously it didn't work out. So if Paul did take out Ty it'd give him more internal power especially because No-one looks up to him and perhaps internal power equates to external power also. I don't know, it's possible.

Thank Lucas. No-one isn't into touch but a simple caring hug she appreciates the sentiment of, the intent.

Floralie wrote:Internal is as real for them as external is for us who can't get in. It does cause real emotions, of course it does, they experience those things with all senses and emotions.

^ This

{\Pixie/}

Zor wrote:

Floralie wrote:Internal is as real for them as external is for us who can't get in. It does cause real emotions, of course it does, they experience those things with all senses and emotions.

^ This

{\Pixie/}

Hi Pixie,

Do you express internal things externally. Do you go into the body and express joy or upset about something that happened internally?

Sarandipity wrote:

Zor wrote:

Floralie wrote:Internal is as real for them as external is for us who can't get in. It does cause real emotions, of course it does, they experience those things with all senses and emotions.

^ This

{\Pixie/}

Hi Pixie,

Do you express internal things externally. Do you go into the body and express joy or upset about something that happened internally?

It like depends... sometimes, sure... but it really depends a lot on if it's a good time to be out or something... but I DO talk to friends OUTSIDE about things that bother, hurt, or make me happy- both inside and outside things... so yeah.

{\Pixie/}

Thanks Pixie. Do you share the feeling with Zor? I mean the feeling of the feeling. I'm having problems with controlling my emotions and controlling my reaction to them at the moment.

Sarandipity wrote:
Do you express internal things externally. Do you go into the body and express joy or upset about something that happened internally?

Our parts do, that's exactly what they'll do and our life is impacted by thing happening inside. On the other hand, what happens inside is many times a reflection of something that's from outside originally, so in the end that's just very complicated way to process feelings. I separate them from me, throw them inside and someone has them. Something happens there, that's explains the feelings inside, they need to make sense in their story. They come out and experience those feelings and inside as well. That's how we process things, without needing to ever process what actually happened or is happening to us right now outside.

Right now Lucas is in crisis with his faith. He left the community he grew in, because he couldn't believe that way, but you can't just leave behind the way you've been raised and all you know, something that's been your safe haven in world not safe otherwise, your whole family you love and who now grieves for you, and something you have stood for because of people with prejudice about you and you family, and prejudice still following after you left. No one outside the community is gonna understand how it's like to leave and be alone when you grew up to be part of something way bigger. Without the community he feels lost.

We went to library and borrowed books that tell stories of people who have left the same community he did. On third page we cried. And it's only the intro part or what ever they're called in books, but anyway, not even the actual stories yet. Now I'm reading and crying loss of religious community I have never been part of, and I have actually never been religious. And having crisis in how to believe now and in future, when nothing makes sense like it used to. Non of that is my thing, it's all his but that's what's important in our life just now.

This is how our life has always been. I've lived so many lives I can't even count.