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I'm so confused *trigger warning*

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Re: I'm so confused

Postby MeMyselfMaureen » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:20 pm

Hi Rive

Dont get too hung up on who is or isnt doing the thinking. The important thing is to learn to become functional.

A while back now we had a bit of an episode where we almost broke. We knew that there was shadow and elspeth because Grace would experience Elspeth as an halucination and both Grace and Peter were being persicuted by shadow. I hadn't met either of them. Then one night Elspeth opened her door a crack and all hell broke loose. Shadow was the one to save us and bring peter, grace and i to the conscious front again. Neither grace nor peter have seen the others since.

I on the other hand know exactly where they are. They are parasiting off me. Shadow is not a problem she just needs to feel safe so she has literally become my shadow, stitched on like peter pan's. Elspeth on the other hand comes and goes, when she is out co-con with me she takes possession of the right-hand side of our body and it feels like I am having a stroke. The thing is is when that happens it gets difficult to separate my thoughts from hers. Elspeth believes the best way to protect us is for us all to become unconscious again. I now know she is behind our catatonic episodes.

But here is the thing. Neither shadow nor elspeth have a persona as such. Peter is distinct he has a whole personality, set of beliefs, way of looking at the world, likes, dislikes, memories, opinions. He even has different body language and voice. No-one meeting peter could ever be in doubt that it was anything but peter. Grace and I are like chalk and cheese we have been confused for twins because while we look identical (same body duh) we have radically different personalities. (The number of times an acquaintance has said "I know your sister you look like two peas."......)

Shadow is a fragment she doesn't have any personality she never developed fully. She has a body image (us at 2 years old) and she can put on any number of voices, appearances etc but that is just her pulling out some memory and dressing in it like a kid with a dressing up box.

Elspeth has a body and is solid, she is very strong, and she emanates fear but she doesn't have a personality. What she has is a fear of developing a personality, she stops us from making choices or expressing personal opinions because as a child she was beaten for it, there is a great sense of loss with her. She knows she used to like things and dislike things but she cant remember what those things are because the memory has been beaten out of her. She is constantly looking for our mother because mother would tell her what she was allowed to like or dislike, because mother isn't here anymore elspeth's default is not to express an opinion on anything.

What this means is that while grace, peter and I can argue about what we want and don't want and be fairly certain who is demanding what, when I am fronting and think of something and then feel something about what I thought it is hard for me to know weather that feeling is self doubt, shadow needing reassurance or Elspeth desperately trying to make us invisible again. The remedy in this case is quite simple because at the end of the day it doesn't mater who the feeling comes from the answer to that feeling is the same. "I see what you are feeling however if you look at XYZ you will find that what I thought is reasonable/logical/safe/acceptable." If there is a reply then I answer that reply accordingly.

In focusing on who said what and trying to find a core your T is wasting time, what you should be doing is focusing on how to function despite the conflicts. Take the cats paw. Next time you feel the urge to trap it address the feeling. Say (in your own words of course) " I hear your desire but I cant let you do that to the cat, let the cat go and we can find something else to exercise your feelings." Then make sure you do go and offer something destructive as a replacement (say smash a plate??), that way you have prevented "bad" behavior, asserted your needs AND listened to and tried to address the needs of whoever it was that wanted to hurt the cat.

I hold a lot of rage for our system, because of our situation at home I have to do a LOT of diplomatic tongue biting. If I couldn't go out and smash rocks in the back garden once in a while I would bite peoples heads off. Telling certain people what I think would be more satisfying but while I am out smashing rocks I can imagine it is certain peoples faces, I let off steam and the whole system benefits.

Perhaps the cat squasher is another alter - if so let them vent safely.
Perhaps the cat squasher is you and you are in conflict with what you want to do and what you want to do because you know it is what you should do - if that is the case then learning to vent your impulses safely can only help.
Whether it is you or an alter behind the impulse the course of action is the same - let the cat alone and go smash a plate instead.

Mo
just Peter now cos the others all hidin
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Re: I'm so confused

Postby Rive » Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:50 pm

I know it shouldn't matter. The only thing that should matter is I don't do it again but it matters so much to if I'm in conflict with myself wanting to squash the cats paw or if it an alter who wants to squash the cats paw. Otherwise I don't have DID if these are just conflicting desires within me. If Thorne (my alter who thinks bad things are funny) is just really another side of me and not an alter I don't have DID. If the cat paw squashes is just me, etc. I don't have DID.
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Re: I'm so confused

Postby MeMyselfMaureen » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:03 pm

Rive that is not for you to decide. So stop worrying.

What is for you to decide is whether you want to get better or not. When I was training to be a nurse I was taught treat for the worst- if you treat for a broken ankle and it turns out to be a sprain then it'll get better. If you treat for a sprain and the ankle turns out to be broken then you could cripple your patient.

Assume it is DID treat accordingly if in 2/3 years it turns out not to be DID then all the therapy and treatment you went through will help whatever it is you have. If you don't treat the DID because it might not be DID and it turns out it was DID you will only make the problem worse because you walked on (suppressed) the broken part.

In the case of the cats paw etc the actual course of action (avoid, explain, replace) is the same whether it is DID causing the impulses or anger/other issues.
just Peter now cos the others all hidin
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Re: I'm so confused

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:52 pm

That is a great analogy, Mo!! I may have to steal it... :D
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Re: I'm so confused

Postby Rive » Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:59 pm

That's just a waste of my time. Why go for treatment for something you don't have? You certainly wouldn't get cancer treatment without having cancer.
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Re: I'm so confused

Postby Rive » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:08 am

TheGangsAllHere wrote:
People with single personalities talk about making bad choices—choosing to do something at one time that they wouldn’t have chosen to do at another time. Or grappling with a choice in the moment, and then making a decision.

That is completely different than actively NOT wanting to do something but ALSO feeling a feeling of wanting to do it and watching your body do it despite your objection. That is dissociation.


I'm just going to go with what Gang said here. It makes me feel better. The only thing is it won't for ling. I will start to doubt again. I hate this!
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Re: I'm so confused

Postby LKinney » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:16 am

That is completely different than actively NOT wanting to do something but ALSO feeling a feeling of wanting to do it and watching your body do it despite your objection. That is dissociation.

Wow, Gang...that was eye opening. That helped us too. Thank you.

Rive, at this early stage, I think it makes sens you don't know.

My T says we have DID. Okay.

I don't know anything.

I am often sitting here with the same questions you have. I didn't even know I was fronting for about a week. Why? Because LKinney and I are part of the same system. So when LKinney was fronting, I was there influencing. With me fronting, LKinney is still part of us, influencing.

We have no idea right now if there are fragments or if everyone is a full personality. How can we know that right now? I am just starting to become aware of myself. If you ask me what do I want in life, I do not know. I just know it has been my job all this time to keep us alive, and that's all I've ever thought about. I don't even remember being around before LKinney became aware of me two months ago because she had me buried so far in her subconscious.

You don't have to come up with all the answers right now, today. This is where you need your T to help.

Sorry I misunderstood your T situation. So you had a prior T that did specialist in DID, but that T said you (the alter writing this thread) are good and another alter is bad (maybe not that exact word)? And your current T is not a DID specialist and said you are the core? Am I following?

I can kinda see that. For example, we would say Laura is our "best" alter. She has not a bad thought in her. She is far too empathetic and compassionate. She feels the pain of others so easily. It's very hard for her to be out because the world makes her cry so much because she feels all the pain of everyone. She could never hurt anyone. But, as we said, Quinn in our system wants to hurt people. It makes perfect sense though. Most of us like to do good things, we like to help people. But all our lives we've been used, abused, betrayed, hurt terribly by people. So Quinn hates people. Quinn and Black Tiger both want to keep people away from us; this is to protect us, but it comes out in bad ways sometimes.

I think the fact that you just noted the name of your alter speaks volumes. The second we had names, LKinney knew it was a big deal, though she still denied it. But our T also knew once LKinney said she had parts that had names that seemed attached, yet away from her.

What you have described seems to fall under dissociation, even if its not DID. I am pretty sure our T did not decide we were DID on day on learning about the others, but she did immediately change how she was treating us, and treated us for dissociation. As she did so, we all became much more clear, much more solid. It reached a point where LKinney could no longer deny to herself she had DID. But that was a year into seeing our T and being treated for dissociation this whole year. It did not happen all at once.

And knowing we have DID just means we have a lot more work to do.

Do I wish we had all the answers and understood it all right away? Of course. Is that realistic? Of course not. It's going to take time, Rive. It's going to take time.
Xena - current front/main poster
"LKinney"- not actual name/original front for our whole lives
Anger based: Black Tiger, Grizzly, Andrea, Piper, Quinn
Traumatized: Laura, Vanessa, Dawn, Jessica, LKinney
Others: Nemo, Omega, Gabby, XT, Muse, Dax, Monica, Amelia, River, Punky
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Re: I'm so confused

Postby Rive » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:15 am

**mod edit trigger warning re: the existence of DID**

This is what other people have said about my impulses.


I guess what strikes me here is your use of "I". You say "I" have bad sexual impulses. These impulses aren't owned by another, they are owned by you. "You" have experienced them since you were seven. They are not dissociated, they are a part of your personal experience over many years. Normal people experience internal conflicts every day. Part of them wants to do one thing and another part doesn't. It is normal to have different parts of the self, and conflicting feelings about something. The world is never black and white, human experience is never black and white.
I have conflicts within my own self - yesterday I did not want to go to work at all but I also didn't want to have to call in sick when I actually wasn't. I really didn't want to go to work, I was struggling badly. But after going back and forth about this conflict I made the decision to go because I did not want to lie to my employer in order to have a sick day.
That wasn't with me and another alter, that conflict was entirely mine, within my own self. It wasn't dissociated. "I" was the owner of both sides of the conflict. I didn't want to go to work AND I didn't want to call in sick. I had no choice but to choose which action to take.
From what you have written you had the impulse to touch the dog and you also didn't want that to happen. You experienced the conflict of both sides as you fought your own impulse. It must be an uncomfortable impulse to be sure.


Also this:

not sure whats going on with you but I can tell you I did some more checking on this idea that one hand / arm doing bad things and the other restraining it.

so far what I have discovered is there is no such thing in any mental disorders with this kind of thing happening where someone reaches out to do something bad and then the other side restrains or prevents it from happening by jerking the arm / hand away.

there is things like made up stuff like old 1950's where the belief was that schizophrenics had two people in one body one good and the other bad and they would fight for doing good things and bad things. but even that has been proven to be false now in 2019.

there are also none of my contacts with treatment providers that know of any physical health problems that cause a person to physically have one hand/ arm getting ready to do something bad and the "good arm hand" stop them or struggle to stop the bad hand from doing bad.

I personally think you can relax, that what ever is going on is not dissociative related.
Im taking a wild guess that this is just a situation where like normal people you started out to do one thing and then changed your mind and did another.

also something to consider. if this was a DID thing you would have been doing this all your life time where every time you did anything with the "bad behavior hand" every time you picked up a glass or plate or your clothing or in school your pencils, paper books, at work out on dates you name it. if this was a DID thing you would have been doing this all your life. you would probably not be having such a struggle getting diagnosis's. you would have a juvenile record and adult record and the courts would have stepped in to find out why you doing such dangerious and harmful things and have had your DID diagnosis for most of your life time

DID has been recognized and diagnosed in people way back in the 1920's to present, in the 1980s it was a very popular diagnosis for adults and children who could not control their behaviors, and had trouble controlling their behaviors, you are in your 40's so if this was a DID thing you would have had your diagnosis's longer then what you have posted.)

my suggestion is not worry about it, its normal for people to start out doing a bad thing and then change their minds and do good instead. most dont do it so dramatically but its normal thing to happen for some one to reach for something then think better of it.



This was from a year ago or so *mod edit*. This is why I am still so confused.
Last edited by Snaga on Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Reason: PLEASE be mindful of triggering content for people with a DID Dx, coming from Nons. Please also be mindful of the anonymity rules, also quoting others' directly from other sources outside of PF...
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Re: I'm so confused

Postby TheGangsAllHere » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:05 am

So, just ignore all the things that people with DID are telling you about their experiences, and believe ignorant and false statements from people on a random forum who clearly know nothing about DID and the nature of dissociative symptoms.

I'm going to take a very long break from reading and replying to your posts.
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Re: I'm so confused

Postby LKinney » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:46 am

Why are you fixating on this OLD information from people who don't know what they are talking about? Literally every comment you posted about DID is just flat out WRONG. A PROFESSIONAL dxed you with DID. Why would you trust some rando on the internet who has never observed you, treated you, etc over your doctor?

We can't tell you if you have DID or not. We are not doctors. You asked people to share their experiences, but you reject everything we have said. I think you need to think about why you are doing that.

Frankly, you remind me of LKinney right now who has rejected us all our life and the second she couldn't anymore, she retreated into the back of our heads to avoid dealing with all this. It seems there is an alter in you that doesn't want to accept this. I think you need to go reflect on that for awhile, ideally with a T that knows what they are talking about.

I am with Gang. I don't know what else to say.
Xena - current front/main poster
"LKinney"- not actual name/original front for our whole lives
Anger based: Black Tiger, Grizzly, Andrea, Piper, Quinn
Traumatized: Laura, Vanessa, Dawn, Jessica, LKinney
Others: Nemo, Omega, Gabby, XT, Muse, Dax, Monica, Amelia, River, Punky
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