dissociation vs DID.

i think i am dissociating right now i feel invisible i feel foggy i feel blunted.

what are the main differences between dissociation and DID?

i feel bad that im posting again but its still on my mind.

i dont think i lose time, i dont think i had trauma. i can recall my social, my name, my birthdate etc. is this why it isnt DID?

thanks.

When we're talking with our therapist we specify what we call "small-d dissociation" and "big D Dissociation". Because the word has two very different meanings.

"small d dissociation"
- depersonalization/derealization disorder
- brain fog
- 'highway hypnosis'
- altered state of consiousness

"big D Dissociation"
- Structural Dissocation
- alternate ego states (eg. alters)

I'm not sure where dissociative amnesia fits between those two.

Things like depersonalization / derealization can (and often do) occur with DID but they don't indicate it. They happen independently to lots of people who do not have DID. Depersonalization Disorder is its own separate thing and having that, or just experiencing some (small d) dissociation, does not itself indicate DID.

There's only two basic criteria for DID - 2 or more dissociated ego/identity states, and amnesia beyond 'normal forgetfulness'. The first one, the separate ego/identity states, is from structural dissociation, aka our big-D Dissociation.

It's basically a problem of the same word being used for different unconnected things.

Anyways, in our experience when most people say "i'm feeling dissociative" or "I'm dissociating" they are refering to the first one, small-d dissociation. We're guilty of this too, simply because IMHO it's a thing you can experience & compare to not feeling it?

Like we feel depersonalization pretty much every day, to varying degrees. So we're almost always feeling at least a 'little bit dissociated'. But it's hard to say "I'm feeling Structurally Dissociated" because IMHO that's a more abstract concept.

Like does it mean I feel I'm about to switch? Or I did switch? Or about to split? Or is it something you can't feel because by definition those feelings are dissociated? Or because we have DID are we always feeling structurally dissociated and it's our normal way of being, so it doesn't feel like anything. lol.

Anwyays sorry if we babbled too much we hope this made sense.

team Amythyst

p.s. lol maybe this is what feeling big-D Dissociated means, there's like 3 of us trying to answer all at once and we're all over the place.

if you do have the patience I would recommend reading this
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8172296_Trauma-Related_Dissociation_Conceptual_Clarity_Lost_and_Found
it is what leading DID therapists say about the problem of calling different psychological things the same name and it explains how to tell it apart.

If you dissociate to the point where it stops you from having normal things in life, it's some kind of disorder. There are many dissociation disorders, not just DID, and personality disorders with dissociative symptoms. DID is when you developed several identities instead of one, because of trauma that disturbed normal identity development. All dissociation disorders are trauma based, but it's also possible to have trauma you do not remember, because it's dissociated. That is called dissociative amnesia, and it can occur in DID or without it. Also people who do have trauma are often very misinformed about what trauma is and what can be traumatizing to a child. Basically that means that person with severe trauma can think they had no trauma, or that it didn't affect them any way.

Whether there are multiple identities or not, is not a question we can answer for you. Like you were advised, seeking therapy is wise anyway, lacking empathy is a huge loss. Many times people find out about other parts in therapy. For some reason you are fascinated by DID, but the question is why. You told it's something cool to you. That does not sound typical reaction to DID from someone who has it, at all. Someone using your body to things you know nothing about is supposed to sound scary, not cool. You can be drawn to it for several different reasons, and having it can be one of them. When did you found out about DID and started being interested about it? Why? What similarities there are in you that you see in people with DID?

Other DDs are not talked as much as DID, that is why it can be the one you are drawn to, because it can still be closest one to something you actually do have, although you would not have DID. I read a list you made earlier, but it was not informative enough, behaviors don't matter, but reasons behind them and how you feel about them. And we do not make diagnoses in here, professionals diagnose you anyway.

I know you have anti social tendencies, and am aware of that. That can be thru trauma too, and there can be identity issues linked with it, like ability to change the way you behave depending how it serves you best. That is very different from switching in DID, because in DID there are no manipulative reasons behind the changes, and it's not optional. It serves our survival, not our wants.

When someone wants to find out about themselves, it's always the same things. The answer to that question is not in here, it's in you, in your everyday life. Be aware of yourself and observe yourself. Start writing a Journal. You can record yourself when you're home to see if you are actually doing stuff you think you are. You find out when you can go thru your evidence. You can put an alarm on to your phone, like once every hour, and estimate did that feel like an hour to you and can you recall what you did. Write that down. Observe your own behavior in different situations. Do you find patterns in there you weren't aware of?

What is your reason to think there are other identities living in same body with you? You do not sound confused about who you are or about what the heck is happening in your life, like people with newly found or suspected DID usually do. I didn't see any internal conflicts in your list of possible signs, rather conflicts between you and the society/normal behavior. For example gender is not an issue for you, not something that keeps changing, and there is no dysphoria. You are just flexible with it. On the other hand, that does not mean it's impossible for you to have DID, I lived many years as a female with gay male sexuality, and saw no problems in it myself, although I know it does not make sense to other people, because I should be trans gay male, or straight female, but there is no such thing than female with male sexuality. There is in DID, because we can not be compartmentalized based on singleton categories, but now that I understand how things work it's clear I'm female, and the sexuality part was leaking from inside from teen guys in there, and so did their gender but less, because I had my own gender too to "fight" it.

Because you understand the effects of DID in your life only after you get to know about it and get to know other parts, it's hard to tell beforehand what is what. So, look at yourself. There needs to be either signs of others or signs of missing time (that explains why you don't know them), because without them there is no reason to suspect DID atm.

Amythyst wrote:Like does it mean I feel I'm about to switch? Or I did switch? Or about to split? Or is it something you can't feel because by definition those feelings are dissociated? Or because we have DID are we always feeling structurally dissociated and it's our normal way of being, so it doesn't feel like anything.

this is precisely my worry. that it is happening without me knowing. sure, i have mood swings indicative of bipolar, but even when stable i am often very inconsistent with the way i handle situations.

birdsong87 wrote:if you do have the patience I would recommend reading this
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8172296_Trauma-Related_Dissociation_Conceptual_Clarity_Lost_and_Found
it is what leading DID therapists say about the problem of calling different psychological things the same name and it explains how to tell it apart.

thank u for the article, i really did try it, but it was so dense. i will try to pick it apart another time if this problem keeps coming up for me.

Floralie wrote:Basically that means that person with severe trauma can think they had no trauma, or that it didn't affect them any way.

my worry.

Floralie wrote:When did you found out about DID and started being interested about it? Why? What similarities there are in you that you see in people with DID?

i found out about it i think several years ago and was interested in it bcuz i always used to always tell myself i had many personalitys. the main similarities are dissociation, not understanding why im feeling a certain way, switching thoughts or behaviors almost instantaneously, etc, but like u said could all be indicative of a personality disorder idfk.

Floralie wrote:You do not sound confused about who you are or about what the heck is happening in your life, like people with newly found or suspected DID usually do.

confused about who i am to an extent is the issue as well. i don't come off that way, i know. maybe this.. cool calm deminour that serves to pretect myself is hiding more than i am aware of.

but i hear the rest of ur post.. i seem to be grasping at straws and need a professional opinion.

ok ill just keep reading ur guys posts then bcuz my therapist would dismiss it right away bcuz she demonizes me. only thing she mentioned is that i have a unique presentation every session.

birdsong87 wrote:if you do have the patience I would recommend reading this
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8172296_Trauma-Related_Dissociation_Conceptual_Clarity_Lost_and_Found
it is what leading DID therapists say about the problem of calling different psychological things the same name and it explains how to tell it apart.

Thank you, there was something important to us in this link. I could not read it all yet, because we started to lose concentration, but it explains something I have been wondering and have not known before to be normal in someone with structural dissociation. I did not know that the experience of pathological DP occurs by having observing and experiencing ego state. I've lived with experiencing myself continuously having these two sides in me, and was confused by that. Only place where I remember seeing them mentioned before is when there has been talk about OSDD, where you have one ANP and EP has these two sides in it. It did not feel like fitting, because I also have parts with their names and all other traits, so being in 3 parts like that didn't make sense at all.. especially because living as observing AND experiencing part at the same time was my everyday "me". I always clearly had two thoughts in my mind, one thoughts for both sides. Also asked several times from "normal" people if they have two thoughts in their mind all the time, but because no one seemed to understand my question, I took it as No.

That stopped few years ago, when I started to have feelings that feel like mine, and I don't experience that anymore. I did my whole life until that. Had no clue that is depersonalization of someone's with structural dissociation. It was clear they were not parts with names, they were both just me, but still separate ways of feeling, and there all the time. That explains a lot, this has been one thing I have not been able to understand in myself before.. like how can I have so simple OSDD and parts without names, but still whole distinct personalities as well, when that means it's DID I have, not OSDD with 3 parts. Could've never thought it's DP. I thought DP/DR are the kind that I experienced as a child, when there was long periods of life when I was not sure am I awake or in dream, and the out-of-body experiences when under stress etc.

Or did I understand it wrong way.. does this mean that pathological depersonalization between observing and experiencing part IS the actual structural dissociation in cases where it's evident, or that it's a way person with structural dissociation (also more complex one than just that) can experience depersonalization? I mean this part of the text:

The literature has long held that depersonalization and derealizationare dissociative symptoms. To an extent, there again seems to be confusion between structural dissociation of the personality and alterations in consciousness. Depersonalization evoked by conditions such as sleep deprivation, illness, substance abuse, sensory deprivation and mild to modest stress usually reflects alterations in consciousness, not structural dissociation. Steinberg [26] has noted that the distinguishing feature of ‘pathological’ depersonalization is a dissociation between an observing and experiencing ego, that is, a particular form of structural dissociation of the personality. This is a common experience reported by victims of childhood sexual abuse [28], motor vehicle accident victims [29] and soldiers in combat [30]. Putnam [31] also proposed that dissociation between an observing and experiencing ego is to be distinguished from other symptoms of depersonalization.

Non-dissociative depersonalization and derealization may accompany structural dissociation as manifestations of alterations of consciousness and may be severe [26]. Dissociative parts of the personality may often experience such alterations [32]

I understand all words in the text, but somehow the meaning of what they form together is slipping away from me. It says particular form of structural dissociation of the personality.. so that means there was nothing new in it anyway.. Well, that will just remain unknown symptom then, that has no explanation really.

Sorry, this was totally OT.

Flor

I didn't read the whole article yet, just your quote from it, but to my reading, they are distinguishing between non-dissociative and dissociative DP/DR. Non-dissociative DP is an alteration in consciousness of one identity, so, it can occur in a singleton or in an alter.

"Pathological" or dissociative DP is the dissociation between an observing and experiencing ego--an actual structural dissociation into two different identities (not necessarily very distinct from each other, with different perspectives on the same event (although with co-consciousness)).

I think it's the difference between "I don't feel like myself right now--this doesn't feel like 'me''" vs. "I am in the 'back' watching 'myself' carry on a conversation with someone--I (we) have two different perspectives of the situation that's happening right now."

So in a sense, it's dissociative DP whenever you have two parts with co-consciousness and one of them is fronting--whether they're very distinct from each other, or just two versions of "me." I think that's what they're saying. But I agree that it's very dense reading and I may be misunderstanding their exact meaning.

We have struggled through that article, english not even being our first language, but at least we read a lot by the authors and they are always equally hard to read.

what I get from the part you highlighted is that the expression 'DP' is used on a number of related symptoms in someone without structural dissociation. like feeling that your voice sounds strange or that your hand is not connected to your body or that you are only head and the rest of the body somehow vanished from your field of consciousness.

there is something that is currently called DP that probably shouldn't be called that and instead be counted as a form of structural dissociation. that is when there is the split between observing and experiencing part. that could happen to a singleton too without it becoming DID. it often happens with accidents when somehow we are acting and maybe helping someone and another part of our personality is just observing it like it has nothing to do with it.

the main purpose of the article is to tell apart what is trauma-related and structural dissociation and what is an experience where only the field of consciousness is affected, which doesn't need any trauma to be present at all. the split state of having an observing part is in it's nature not DP but a form of structural dissociation, but it is currently often called DP because of a lack of understanding the differences.

with DID it means that every single part could have a DP experience of maybe not feeling their legs because the field of consciousness is small. with the big trauma though we often split the experience and developed experiencing parts and others who might have floated to the ceiling just to watch. this is not covered by the article though, it just tries to explain the differences between all the things we call 'dissociation' without going into details of how eg DP applies for DID parts.