I'm tired and I feel like I lied

i'd say how deeply relatable this is, and how much the past year or so of my life was literally this - constant denial, constantly going round in circles, constant self-doubt and self-analysis - but, ultimately, i think more than anything you want to feel in control.

if all of this is just intrusive thoughts, you know how to deal with that. you've had therapy for it already, going by other posts. instead of it being "i have all this chatter in my mind, and i can't make it stop", it becomes "well, it's clearly just intrusive thoughts, i can control that, i know how to cope with that".

ultimately, it's not up to me to decide what's healthy for you, whether you have DID or not, but something that helped me when i felt the way you did was not using these forums. not because the community is toxic in any way - it's the complete opposite - but because my use of the forums was fuelling my own denial. here i had a way to endlessly compare myself to other systems, cultivate an idea of what DID is supposed to be like, and then use it as a way to constantly fuel my own self-doubt.

i stopped using the forums when it got that bad. i still went round in circles for months and months and months. but my therapist went with me, and that was the most helpful thing she's ever done for me. you're allowed to feel the way you do, and you need somewhere to express it, and therapy is really good for that. if you feel your therapist is hung up on DID, tell her that. say you experience doubt and you want her to work through that with you. go over your feelings, the ruminations, what you think is happening. if her response is just "you have DID, why deny it", she isn't actually helping you.

right now, you want an answer that fits but doesn't scare you. you want an answer that fits but makes you feel in control. exploring that in therapy is the only way you can move forward. ultimately, you need someone who can explore this with you. we can do that here, to an extent, but we can't be entirely neutral, and i don't think many here have the energy to constantly go round with you while you're experiencing cyclical denial like this. therapists are trained to handle these things, we are not.

all i can recommend is you explore this in therapy, and maybe think about how helpful it is to use the forums at all, at least the DID threads. avoiding using the forums when my denial is bad has been an incredibly healthy thing for me.

take care.

- alice

Thank you, Alice. Unfortunately I have a therapist that doesn't know anything about DID so when she has questions she contacts my Psychologist who is very DID oriented so then my therapist becomes DID oriented as well. Unforunately my Psychologist is well known in the community for being a DID specialist. She labels alot of people DID though. I have no options at this point in seeing another therapist. I contacted one lady who would probably be awesome but she is self pay and I can't afford her. I contacted a Psychologist and he said that he would not test me for DID or be able to see me. DID trained therapists are hard to come by here. So, I'm stuck not trusting my treatment providers and not trusting the people on the forums. Not trusting my intuition. I'm becoming depressed because I'm such a doubtful person I dont ever believe I will ever be able to know if I have DID or not. I just feel like giving up.

What Alice is saying (and maybe you should read it again), is that it's not helpful for your therapist to respond to your doubt by saying, "You have DID." or "You don't have DID." Her job is to validate your experience of doubt. To help you not feel alone with what you experience--that there is someone there who cares about how much you're struggling and is willing to be there with you while you struggle.

When you announce, "I have DID," she can be there to support you in that, and when you are sure you just have intrusive thoughts, she can support you in that. Whatever your experience is, the therapist's job is to validate that it's ok to feel that way and to be with you while you feel that way.

Rive wrote:Thank you, Alice. Unfortunately I have a therapist that doesn't know anything about DID so when she has questions she contacts my Psychologist who is very DID oriented so then my therapist becomes DID oriented as well. Unforunately my Psychologist is well known in the community for being a DID specialist. She labels alot of people DID though. I have no options at this point in seeing another therapist. I contacted one lady who would probably be awesome but she is self pay and I can't afford her. I contacted a Psychologist and he said that he would not test me for DID or be able to see me. DID trained therapists are hard to come by here. So, I'm stuck not trusting my treatment providers and not trusting the people on the forums. Not trusting my intuition. I'm becoming depressed because I'm such a doubtful person I dont ever believe I will ever be able to know if I have DID or not. I just feel like giving up.

i think at that point, all you can do is work with what you have. even if someone is a DID specialist, even if you've been diagnosed with DID, that doesn't change your actual symptoms, or change how you're feeling. therapy is a way you can express your feelings, your doubts, and feel listened to. you're depressed and feeling unsure of yourself. that's such a lonely place to be. that's what therapy is for, to explore your feelings, to not feel alone.

belief is a really difficult thing. i woke up today and despite months of proof, months of evidence, my first thought when i woke up was that i was clearly faking everything. because of one small thing that happened. and i had it pointed out to me that i see it that my experiences, my feelings, are inches away from shattering, from being "not real", when actually it is my belief that is always inches away from shattering.

regardless of what you call it, your symptoms and your feelings are irrevocably real. whether you called it intrusive thoughts or communication from alters, what you experience is still absolutely real, and no matter how much you don't want it to be happening, it won't go away. and that's terrifying, isn't it? and that feeling of fear is absolutely real. how you're coping with that fear is by searching for answers, for a truth that you can accept, that means you don't feel afraid or uncertain anymore. ultimately, your therapist is there for you whether you have DID or not. regardless of whether the internal chatter you hear is due to OCD or DID or whatever you wish to call it, it's real and something you can't control, and that's absolutely terrifying, isn't it? that's where therapy comes in, to express your feelings, to have someone listen to you, to know someone is there for you when you're afraid.

ultimately, it doesn't matter what you call it, in a way. even if they un-diagnosed you with DID, your symptoms wouldn't change. if you feel like it would change, then at that point you're blaming yourself, aren't you? you're telling yourself you're doing this to yourself, that you've gotten it into your head that it's DID, that if you'd just stop calling it that, all of this would be fine. regardless of what you call it, your experiences remain the same. it's your belief in those experiences that changes. does that make sense?

i've been where you are, and it's the most lonely and distressing thing i have ever experienced. i was so desperate for answers, but every answer i got just made me feel worse. but, in the end, the thing that helped me was focusing on how i felt. i felt scared, alone, depressed, suicidal, uncertain. my therapist worked through those feelings, gave me a space to express myself, and i started to understand myself and my experiences better the more i let out my feelings and explored them with someone else.

you're allowed to feel scared. you're in a really awful place, and it's terrifying to feel the way that you do, but you're not on your own. there are people there for you. your therapist, your psychiatrist, all of us here. we are happy to help, it's just that we can't give you answers. all we can do is share our own experiences, tell you we're listening, that we hear you, and wish you the best.

- alice

No, I understand what she is saying. About a month my therapist told me I had to accept I had DID to get better. Then she said she wasnt going to try to convince me. Then she said she didnt care whether I called them alters, parts of me whatever and sayid so you think that you just have intrusive thoughts but handed me a print out of the different type of alters. I guess my point is whether she says I have DID or I dont I'm always going to doubt one way or the other. I just go around and around about if I have DID with her as well. Whether she just supports me and let's me go on my flip flops about whether I have it or not is not going to help either. It's just a never ending cycle. I see no way out.

-- Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:44 am --

Thanks Alice, I think we posted at the same time. Thanks, Gang

Rive wrote:No, I understand what she is saying. About a month my therapist told me I had to accept I had DID to get better. Then she said she wasnt going to try to convince me. Then she said she didnt care whether I called them alters, parts of me whatever and sayid so you think that you just have intrusive thoughts but handed me a print out of the different type of alters. I guess my point is whether she says I have DID or I dont I'm always going to doubt one way or the other. I just go around and around about if I have DID with her as well. Whether she just supports me and let's me go on my flip flops about whether I have it or not is not going to help either. It's just a never ending cycle. I see no way out.

-- Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:44 am --

Thanks Alice, I think we posted at the same time. Thanks, Gang

in a way, your therapist isn't necessarily wrong, but i don't think she's being overly helpful either. if my therapist had done that with me when my denial was at its worst, i would've felt monumentally worse. you want to feel listened to and understood, but ultimately she's making you feel as if your fear and doubt is something you shouldn't feel. acceptance is how people heal, but it has to be at your own pace, in your own time.

it took me the better part of an entire year of solid therapy to accept things as well as i do now, and i still struggle with acceptance. that doesn't make it never-ending, because i am taking steps along the way. think of it like walking along a path, and every now and then you dig a deep hole and walk round in circles in it for a bit. then you get back up, walk forward a bit, and then you dig a new hole. it's a familiar hole, but it's always a little further along. the fact that you're even addressing this with a therapist is a positive step. you're engaging with the resources available to you here on the forums. you're not stuck in place, you are moving. sure, you're moving in circles a lot, but you are taking positive steps.

you're depressed, frustrated, sick of what you're going through. and you know what? you're sure as hell allowed to feel that way. mental illness is confusing as ###$! there are so many different labels and treatment methods and all you want is to feel okay. it's awful to feel stuck with something you don't understand and can't accept.

in all sincerity, your therapist might not be right for you, but i think something worth considering is telling her how you feel. tell her you feel like she's forcing you into a box, that she's labelling you. tell her you understand what she's saying, but you still feel the way you do, and you're not ready yet to label things in a certain way. if you don't feel comfortable calling what you deal with DID, or using terms like alters, that's fine. you absolutely don't have to, and no-one should force you. but you're still unwell, and you need help - that's a fact.

ultimately, your therapist should be where you are. if you take a step, she should take that step with you, regardless of whether it's backwards or forwards. your therapist shouldn't be a few steps ahead going "come on now, what's the hold-up?". that just makes you feel even more alone. you don't necessarily need to see a DID specialist. my therapist is a student who happens to have some clinical experience with DID. she's not a specialist by any means. but ultimately, that doesn't matter. she listened to me, i feel understood by her, and she was by my side every step of the way and that helped me more than anything.

all i can recommend is being honest with your therapist about how she's been making you feel, and how you're feeling generally. if she doesn't get it or refuses to help, then at that point it'd be good to see someone else. in the meantime, we're all here for you however we're only human, we're going to get frustrated sometimes, and we can only do so much.

- alice

I second what Alice wrote. That sounds like a good course of action: the symptoms remain the symptoms, regardless.

Maybe this is OCD interfering? Maybe you are having an OCD obsession over diagnosis? I couldn't help but think that. Maybe the intrusive thoughts are the ones that keep doubting one way or the other? Or worry about lying?

In the end, diagnosis doesnt matter as long as you treat the symptoms.

Thanks Alice and Fireheart. You know what it absolutely is an obsession. I dont like telling people that because then they dont help me. It is an obsession that NEVER ends. I acted out sexually as a child. So what did I do. I spent my whole teenage and 20s and 30s reading books on why children act out sexually. Talked to counselors till I was blue in the face. If they said Rive you were abused I would say in my mind Sweet! That explains it. Then doubt would trickle in and I would think well I dont have flashbacks so I dont have absolute proof. I also dont know for sure that's what caused me to act out. Now with the DID I feel like I cant get absolute proof and it doesnt matter what anyone tells me I'm going to doubt. When people tell me I have DID Im like Cool! That makes sense what I am experiencing! Then I'm like I dont have this or that or it could be something else and doubt comes back in. So I look for reassurance I get it then I'm good, then again doubt comes in. I have been like this my whole life and I dont know why. No amount of evidence is ever good enough. People leave me because they can't deal with it. It pisses them off like it has you guys. So people say focus on the symptoms and I totally get that but treatment is based on your symptoms right. So my therapist says these are your symptoms I think we should work on this Trauma based Dissociation workbook ( which is about DID) and I'm like cool I may be DID lets do that. So I buy a 40 dollar book. Then I'm like should I even be doing this workbook I dont think I'm DID whats the point? I'm literally running out of energy and becoming depressed to the point I am not doing things I used to love doing. I dont go to my dads on weekends anymore, I sleep alot, I feel sick. I used to have a therapist ( she passed away) she said on every note she ever wrote to put in my file she wrote client doubtful. She said I want to tell you that the only things for certain in life are that one day we will die and we all have to pay taxes. Then she said and some exscape paying taxing so basically death is the only thing for certain. That never helped. I dont know what the deal with me is. I've always wanted to be able to explain myself and it's not even to others its to myself but no amount of evidence is ever sufficient.

Hey you ever play games with your T. or in the hospital? I just got out of the hospital We played this new game they have on the floor called You're the T. All cause this last time in lots of the patients were complaining the T.s and Pdocs don't understand. Don't know Jack about our problems.

the T's and Pdocs I guess got tired of hearing us complain and not get work done, they got together and made a game.

Its simple rules

no diagnosis. We could not say what our diagnosis was and could not use any diagnosis stuff.
no using google or texting, cell phones off, cell phones left in our rooms
introduce your self as you would expect a T to introduce their self to you.
you "present" your case like you are the T, listing outlining the problems but not the diagnosis

(my patient X is female aged such and such came to me with these problems.)

After "presenting" the case "present" goals / treatments for this patient that you feel fits the problems (no diagnosing, no diagnosis labels, no diagnosis criteria just the problems)

What ever goals / treatments as T presented we had to follow through with for that day.

they did this game every morning instead of the usual "rounds"
We still had to meet with our T's and Pdocs, follow hospital rules.

The "case" we were presenting was our own problems not the other patients problems lol we had some fun making up some weird cases like aliens, ghosts, creature til after everyone was in the group room. They called the room of "T's" (patients) to order.

It was fun, we got to see what a hard time our T's on the floor have it, the real T's got a chance to see what we thought of them.

We learned we dont need a bunch of diagnosis names to fix our problems, and our problems are not as helpless as we thought when we take out all the diagnosis thing ma jigs.

Rive we hear you.
You are not happy with your diagnosis
you are not happy with your T.
you are not happy with your problems.

what would you do if you were the T, what do you want to do about your problems.

BTW they have done brain scans of DID people and control people. People with DID have different brains, different hypothalamus for example, so that's worth looking into.

I'm thinking about doing that for my own peace of mind. When I said to a doctor 20 years ago "brain scan me then" he said they weren't that far along yet with mental health but they are getting there. A brain scan would help me I feel and maybe it'd help you too.