Family Member Suicide Attempt

Johnny-Jack wrote:Your family contains hidden abuse and you have proof of that. In many cases, abuse is not a one-time thing, one relative on one relative, it's systemic. In my family and in that of many posters here, physical, psychological and sexual abuse occurred to many family members and there was more than one perpetrator. Others were enablers, even if their excuse is "I didn't know" or "I couldn't have done anything."

I don't doubt that there is... but this is my sister in-law's family that this niece comes from... so outside MY family experience. BUT there is, as you note below, a LOT of dysfunction in that home... both of them. I said before, I think, she alternates living at her mom's and dad's (with the sis in-law) weekly. So there's a measure of instability already built in... I know little to nothing of her mother, but DO know about the drama, stress, and dysfunction of her dad and my sis in-law... saw that on display first hand all week on vacation.

Johnny-Jack wrote:In terms of your wife, in my opinion based on your reports, her replies to your needs seem ignorant, certainly, but they also sound willfully ignorant and possibly aggressively ignorant. Following on Una's comment, my question is whether there is any hidden abuse of any kind in her extended family of which you're not yet aware.

I am still trying to figure that out. She asked today what I talked about with the doc yesterday- so I told her about the sleep problems and Chloe's nightmare basically setting the stage for it- and the "I should have brought her toy" as a means to prevent it. She doesn't like it and doesn't want it brought on a future vacation (a Disney cruise she wants to take the younger niece and nephew on in a year or so)...
That would be a mistake- for the same reasons as this week, but also b/c _I_ am terrified of the water and a cruise is not my ideal vacation... I don't care for the water, the ocean, the pool... so... but the trip DOES sound fun and I'm ok with it... but the stress of that stuff will just add to my difficulties and instability, right?! Why add MORE problems?!

Johnny-Jack wrote:I don't want to put ideas into your head that have no merit, but I imagine this may have crossed your mind. People with highly dysfunctional families, which includes those with hidden abuse, tend to find comfort with others who are like them.

There IS a serious level of dysfunction in B's family... her mom & dad split up, her dad remarried (my sis in-law is her step mom), and her dad and step-mom fight a lot (we saw a TON of this first hand this week)... Sis in-law is a struggling/recovering (sometimes falling off the wagon) alcoholic, and is starving herself and sucking down "diet pills" to drop weight- a LOT... scares me b/c I've seen my mother do this and am a walking testament to the long-term damage that can cause a child if it gets severe enough (I am relatively certain Chloe is from this period, when dad was overseas a year and Mom's anorexia and diet pill drama caused her to be too sick to help out at home and/or be hospitalized (three times nearly dying, once so severe they temporarily recalled dad from Turkey to CA just in case she died) - Chloe has, as you'd expect, SEVERE anxiety of being alone and/or abandonment issues- thus the toy to make her feel safe and comforted).

Johnny-Jack wrote:All evidence I have points to widespread abuse on both sides of my own family. I'm not saying that's the case for both your and your wife's families. It may well be just as you guessed, teen depression/confusion over sexual orientation. But a serious suicide attempt exponentially raises the need to provide the best support possible for a vulnerable young person. And knowledge should help inform you what kind of support will be most effective.

I don't see evidence of abuse in my wife's family... but a very permissive parenting for the younger sibling (sis in-law) who is a full 9 years younger than my wife. And this caused some bad habits, which her mother kind of turned enabler to, not wanting to believe it could be happening (drugs and alcohol- both as an adult, not as a kid or even teen).
Then sis in-law wound up in a bad marriage with an unstable guy she met in AA (as if that was a good idea, to unstable people in a place to try and struggle to get a handle on their lives, the last thing they needed was a relationship right?!). This is where our niece and nephew come into the picture, followed divorce later... a few years later she remarries and the new guy has two older kids, 16 and 14 (the latter is B, who tried to kill herself). So... yeah, a lot of instability and stress in that house. IDK if there's "abuse", but it doesn't NEED to be "abuse" to be damaging... it doesn't NEED to be overt or intentional, right?!

Zor wrote:So... yeah, a lot of instability and stress in that house. IDK if there's "abuse", but it doesn't NEED to be "abuse" to be damaging... it doesn't NEED to be overt or intentional, right?!

Depends what you classify as "abuse". But indeed it does not need to be intentional to be damaging. My first ex-BF was extremely abusive while still believing that he was doing it "for my own good" or out of his own right. My parents still think that they were "helping" me by punishing my autistic behaviors, and that I was a "bad and difficult kid" for still displaying them after years of abusive "punishments". Ask them, and they'll still tell you *I* was the problem. As for the CSA, Abuser will still say that she "had the right" of doing it because reasons and that I'm a bad bad person for saying it's CSA.

I'm pretty sure that all these people did not have the *intention* of damaging me/us. But they still did awful and criminal things, while believing they were doing good things.

And you do not need to actively DO something to be abusive. When my parents became Allowers by not giving a flip about what I was reporting from my sibling; when my first ex refused to shield me from my family unless I was making minimum wage; when I was crying at my teachers "I'm going to turn mad" and they sent me off saying "you sound pretty reasonable to me"; when Allower turned his face away from me while Abuser was doing awful things right under his nose; when I was a baby (this one was told to me by an aunt) and Abuser would lock me in a room because I was "crying too much" and forbade the family to check on me and nobody batted an eye; they did not DO anything, and that was still pretty damaging.

And sometimes, the simple fact of witnessing the caretakers having addictions, self-damaging behaviors, and the like; simply that, can be damaging for a child.

Right now, I do not think it is important to try to discover WHAT happened. It is important to BE HERE for the niece, to supporter her, tell her you are here to help her through whatever is happening to her, help her get the help she needs to go away from the bad people who hurt her, etc.

Oh, and about your wife and the cruise? I advise to not go on the cruise. No stuffies, water everywhere, it's a disaster waiting to happen. Chloe cannot protect herself. If you do not do it for yourself, Zor, do it for Chloe, please.

--Zami & a few others--

Children are trying to kill themselves, people are abusing alcohol and drugs... That all says abuse to me. They are all forms of escape. What are they trying to escape from?

ArbreMonde wrote:And sometimes, the simple fact of witnessing the caretakers having addictions, self-damaging behaviors, and the like; simply that, can be damaging for a child.

^ That... I tried to tell my sister in-law that when she made a flippant remark to my wife and I... "It's my body and only affects ME" when we tried to tell her the danger of barely eating and using diet pills to basically eradicate even that little from her body...
That statement above I know all too well. That is almost certainly WHY Chloe exists, why I hate hospitals (ALL of us do), and why there are legitimate fears about people we see that are TOO thin. There is a great deal of damage that can happen just SEEING a parent suffer those things, especially when they inflict them on themselves.

ArbreMonde wrote:Right now, I do not think it is important to try to discover WHAT happened. It is important to BE HERE for the niece, to supporter her, tell her you are here to help her through whatever is happening to her, help her get the help she needs to go away from the bad people who hurt her, etc.

That's kind of what my wife and I have done- we're there on and off the past few days to visit, but not asking anything- mostly trying to make her laugh, let her talk if she wants, and just let her know we care about her. At this point, IDK there's anything WE can do for her anyway. As much as that hurts to accept.

-- Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:38 am --

Sarandipity wrote:Children are trying to kill themselves, people are abusing alcohol and drugs... That all says abuse to me. They are all forms of escape. What are they trying to escape from?

Some of that, like the sis in-law doing drugs herself was years before... most of her "alcoholic" days were earlier, though apparently she still struggles with it... and B's dad disappeared a few times over the vacation with WITH sis in-law for HOURS... one of those times, was around 9:30pm and they didn't get home until closer to midnight... the next day my wife and I (when using their car) found alcohol in it- more than ONE person would have drank... so the two of them and the friend with them had clearly been out drinking in the van a few hours... :/

IDK what they are all trying to escape from- maybe the dysfunction in the home... But it's clear there's a LOT of pain and trouble in that home.