When ypu (as an "alter") are no longer needed.

by **SystemFlo** » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:45 am

I know non of your system members wanna hear this, because you think it's an attack, when it's not. It still doesn't stop being true, which is why I keep repeating that until you see what's my point.

Your man is not your T. He should not act like a T. Now that he still does, with no training, he affects like T but does all the wrong things. Every outsider's help to the system is to help them be as independent as possible, but he teaches you to be dependent on him instead. He may think he does good things and it may feel good to you because it's easy, no responsibilities to you, someone takes care of all hard stuff, but it doesn't mean it's actually a good thing. When you struggled to decide who has outside time and when, he didn't support your inner communication so you'd come up with the solution he then helps you to live by. Instead of supporting you as a system, he made rules for you from outside and then took care you listened to his rules as separate parts. That's just an example of how to do things the exact opposite way than an actual T would.

So you are exactly where that puts you to be. Instead of being united system fighting for each other and communicating inside and everyone understands everyone's value, you still argue and rely on some outside man. He's the center of your system, although he has no place inside your mind for real. No healthy place. You as a part, B, have qualities other's don't, and the system is not who you really are without those qualities. It doesn't matter if the outside person wants you to grow or not or stay or not. You should do all your stuff inside the system and then just tell him how things are now, and he accepts, because THAT is support. But you are so off road others don't even care.

You need to work your difficulties with the little one INSIDE the system. Other system members should be your biggest support. It's so sad things are getting more and more off. You can have help from T, because they don't push themselves inside the system, they just help you to communicate to each other. And that outside man needs to step away with his rules and opinions on things that aren't his, because he is an intruder. If you don't see that, just play a game for a second. What would happen if he would one day just be vanished from your life? We don't have to make up scenarios how that would happen, it's not important, this is just a thought. How would you be then? All of you? I guess without will to live or reason to live is the closest answer. That doesn't tell you that you need him, that tells he has way too strong grip of you.

I am not saying he is doing it out of bad will, but I hate how carelessly he makes big decisions without understanding the consequences. He should be here learning about DID, but he's not interested. It is great you have an outsider you can trust, but it doesn't make him an expert on dissociative disorders. He needs to step back and be a real support. B is feeling bad, so why is no one doing anything about it, should be his question to your system, and so should be yours. In your system you are more important than him. You are an actual part in the system, and he is not, although you treat him as one. Your feeling is important, not his opinion. You have all you need to figure things out INSIDE. I hear it's rough for you now, and I feel for you. I think you need a T to listen to you and help you with communication.

You call yourself a protector, you're the one who can get angry when needed. Who has that if you just leave? You can not die, and I don't think the spark you have should go dormant, just because it's inconvenient when you're all stable and married. You wouldn't be the same person, the WHOLE person anymore.

It is true that when people grow up, teenage type behaviors usually just disappear, adults are not rebellious and looking for who they are anymore the ways teens are. So I understand why you feel you are no longer needed, because system grew over being a teen, but you can't grow. If this is part of system's healing process, then integration is the word. Do you wanna integrate and do you have someone to do it with? Are you talking about going away, because you're feeling depressed and unloved by your own system, or because you are tired and you wanna go and rest and you deserve it? Again, a T could have more insight to what's happening and if it's good or bad.

B, we had the same thing happen. Couldn't feel we belonged anywhere. Discovered that when most *grow up* they for some reason lose spontaneity. Don't know why. But they do. They IMHO get too darn serious. So my job became even more important & I had to work with more of them. If I didn't show up, they became dull even sad & unhappy. Wasn't quite used to helping others that way. But learned they still needed me but in a different way. It was a job only I could do just had to do it a little differently. Hate change.

by **ItsJustUs** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:33 pm

SeveralCrows wrote:**Trigger Warning for my whole post: I swear a lot**

Hi B,

This is M. I'm one of the teens in this system, age-slide 12-17. Right now I'm 15-16ish. I want to grow up but also ###$ that, it's stupid, adults are ######6 terrible and don't know how to do anything right and can't acknowledge their ###$ or when other people are dangerous.

Anyway, this isn't about me. Just waned to say who I am up front.

You said it's time for you to grow up, is that just because you think you'd fit better into the system?

Some of our system thinks about how in people without OSDD1/DID don't have really continuous internally-consistent personalities either. Like they like or want conflicting things and sometimes those things are really disruptive to their goals, and sometimes they're just quirks or whatever. So if it's really interruptive then that's a problem that they need to deal with but if not then it's fine. I'm kind of interruptive but also kind of match up to some of our goals, it's just that my intensity is out of control and sometimes rage overtakes me so completely that I can't ######6 do much except be inflamed myself. So for me, I want to grow up, even though adults are ######6 idiots, because then I'll be able to manage the intensity rather than it controlling me. I don't want to lose the intensity and I think it will feel like I have, at first, with not being pulled out of control by it. I feel like $#%^ being controlled by it though.

There's also how people develop coping techniques in trauma or other stressful situations and then sometimes those are just how the person is and sometimes those are coping techniques that need to be fixed or replaced or eradicated. So you're talking about knowing why you formed and that what you were formed for isn't relevant anymore, but like, you're not just that. You've grown past that. So you can "grow up" out of whatever you feel like is disruptive within yourself that's a coping technique and keep the rest of you. People aren't entirely utilitarian in the way they exist, like, some people keep collections and that doesn't serve any purpose but it makes them happy. I don't think you need to fulfill a specific function with others, but you need to have your own purpose and fulfillment unto yourself, and that seems to be social and interactive and you're denied that left and right, right?

From your reply to Sev3, it sounded like in addition to time and attention that you really want to be valued as you, for who you are, and that no one uniquely desires you or seeks you out or makes you feel special - or at least not in ways that you respond to. Some of that comes from other people and some of that comes from yourself, but also it's hard to get back (with a specific person) if you feel like someone has been devaluing you for awhile. I get why you'd want to fuse in, so you can get more attention but it isn't painful anymore because you're not there to be sought out or ignored.

A thought we've had is, since you're considering fusion anyway, why not try growing up and see if that makes it any better? You probably don't have to stay that age anyway if you don't like it but don't want to fuse either. We have a part in our system who's trying out being a dog, but she keeps ######6 reverting back and causing problems, so it's not the right solution and it isn't sticking. I think if the choice isn't right or doesn't work for you that it won't stick. In trying to grow up myself, I've only managed to increase the range of my age-sliding. I don't even really know how to grow up.

You mentioned you now know why you formed. Is that recent knowledge? Do you think that's influencing your feelings about existing and continuing to exist and current and future purpose? Like, is it making you want to not be around anymore, either to avoid that reality or because you don't see yourself as having a purpose beyond that even though you've grown?

Sorry if this is rambly or confusing. I don't usually talk to other people.

Our system has had some fusions and they're a little bittersweet sometimes but usually they have been good for us. We intend to have more if it's possible and right for us. I can't say if it is for you, but the rest of your system and even your husband don't get to make that choice either. I do think it's worth advocating what you need very strongly before you do, and maybe trying out what it's like to be an adult for a little bit first, but you get to make the call. Also like SOHank said, being an adult doesn't mean any specific age at all. Some systems have parts who are generically "adult age" without that being specified.

I'm not sure I'm helping. I hope you are able to feel worthy and valuable soon. Thanks for posting and replying and stuff.

M

I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to respond. In answer to your question on when I found out why I was formed, my original purpose, it was about 2 1/2 years ago I guess.

-- Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:36 am --

TheGangsAllHere wrote:I just want to say that as sure as you are about why and how you formed and that you're not needed anymore, you may not have all the information. One single alter rarely does. And going away (which probably isn't possible) or changing, because you don't feel that you can get your needs met (or that you shouldn't have them) doesn't sound like a healthy solution.

Can you guys get back into therapy or perhaps have a phone call with your old therapist? This sounds too complicated to work out on your own. My T always says that every part is valuable and important, and that all the feelings and thoughts are important. He also says that no one ever really goes away. So I'm sure there's some way of working this out, even if the solution isn't clear right now.

We've moved out of the sate where we were seeing the T.
I don't feel valuable or important.
And.. I dunno. I'm working on figuring out how to leave.

-- Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:40 am --

LindseySays wrote:As the spark in this system, i can say that you don't hafta lose your spark to grow up. (this is L; around age 19-23 ish alter in a system whose body is 39.) i am learning that... our system is putting itself into a new occupational training in-which i play a very big part. it involves coming up with things on the fly, and being sociable, and i am all that. the other parts are not so-much that. this is an awesome opportunity though; and they would Not be doing it if i had not come along. we are all in agreement on that! hmm; is there some sort of hobby or outlet that could give your system a break in being all mature n'stuff, that you could excel at? idk; i am a little bit scared of giving advice because it might not feel applicable, but i do know that being the spark can get draining fro the other parts (they have told me that, in the nicest way they could,) so the good thing is that i hop in and get stuff done when they need to have their rest. i literally never 'need' rest, but understand that this body does; so i agree to it when it is needed, but there's this thing... ok. i love sex, as you brought that point up. i used to just be one who could go on and on, and one of our partners worried that they weren't satisfying us. so i learned, over time, to know when a good 'endpoint' is for having sex; like, this was good, we are all good, let's rest and have some water and food, talk,etc. it did Not happen overnight and i found myself possibly draining our partner, but since realizing that there is an endpoint, that is better all around... BUT. i also came to the realization that sex could end forever. i would still fully love my partner. if it weren't the case, i would just be with them for sex, and that would not really be a good situation to honestly say 'i love you' to them like i do, because it'd be more like 'i love sex with you.' so... the last few times we hung out, it was Not contingent on sex. at all. more like 'this was a fun evening, have a good night, love you.' it's made my partner seem to feel more secure and cared for beyond sex, and that is amazing because it just is. NOW... i am Not saying that you should put aside your joy of having sex. that is a tricky part that i can't really think of how to go-about fixing... but ruling out a sex addiction can help. i ruled it in because i know that i am hooked on it... and started realizing that i do not in fact NEED it to be relevant and loved... that helped lots... now, doing nonsexual stuff is becoming more fun. idk if any of this was helpful and i hope that it was.

-- Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:22 pm --

maybe though... make sure that you are with your system for yous, as a system. not just a creation for your spouse, who is a separate-bodied person. i would be genuinely concerned if you were created solely for him; it is one worry as a system that we could have been made/created specifically for other people (friends, partners, anyone really,) but not for the good of our system. i know that that is not the case with me, but never feel like you have to create an alter to please another person. that could lead to that alter feeling particularly horrible if that otherbodied person loses interest. i was not even specifically created though, i happened along to say 'ok this system needs to get up and start living more and doing more and not being afraid to look otherbodieds in the eye,' etc; though i definitely do have good-introject properties of our partner. oddly enough, our partner is not DID.

Thank you. A lot of what you said resonates here. Gives me something to think about.

As far as "being made for him," No, I wasn't. I was formed when the body was around 15 years old, and we met our partner when the body was....36ish.

by **ItsJustUs** » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:45 pm

Floralie wrote:I know non of your system members wanna hear this, because you think it's an attack.

You're right.

by **SystemFlo** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:02 pm

ItsJustUs wrote:
Floralie wrote:I know non of your system members wanna hear this, because you think it's an attack.

You're right.

Whether you like it or not, it's basic knowledge about how to support someone with DID and what is not OK with someone who has DID. There are several threads in this forum where something similar is talked about.

You lack boundaries, and because you don't know where they should be, you don't understand what I'm talking about at all. You think I'm randomly attacking someone who has helped you. That is not true. You lacked boundaries because of trauma originally, and now you will never have a chance to learn them, because they are being crossed all the time and it's still your normal. It's what you think is safe, and that is so sad.

Trusting someone doesn't mean you stop being independent individual, who just happens to be in a relationship. That's what you are to him. A relationship, while he is an independent adult making his own choices. But that's not what he is to you.

Floralie

As long as you guys keep on talking about him so frequently, we will too. It's important people know crossing boundaries is not fine. If we wouldn't know the history behind this, how you came in here with all messages only praising him and not so much talk about DID at all, it wouldn't look like a red flag like it does now. But we know, and do not ignore red flags. He won't be the greatest guy who ever lived on earth to us, ever.

We wait for the day when messages will be about DID and about you. There are other people in here in relationships too, and they do not push it.

Floralie (writer) Sami (opinion)

by **ItsJustUs** » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:37 pm

Floralie wrote:
ItsJustUs wrote:
Floralie wrote:I know non of your system members wanna hear this, because you think it's an attack.

You're right.

Whether you like it or not, it's basic knowledge about how to support someone with DID and what is not OK with someone who has DID. There are several threads in this forum where something similar is talked about.

You lack boundaries, and because you don't know where they should be, you don't understand what I'm talking about at all. You think I'm randomly attacking someone who has helped you. That is not true. You lacked boundaries because of trauma originally, and now you will never have a chance to learn them, because they are being crossed all the time and it's still your normal. It's what you think is safe, and that is so sad.

Trusting someone doesn't mean you stop being independent individual, who just happens to be in a relationship. That's what you are to him. A relationship, while he is an independent adult making his own choices. But that's not what he is to you.

Floralie

As long as you guys keep on talking about him so frequently, we will too. It's important people know crossing boundaries is not fine. If we wouldn't know the history behind this, how you came in here with all messages only praising him and not so much talk about DID at all, it wouldn't look like a red flag like it does now. But we know, and do not ignore red flags. He won't be the greatest guy who ever lived on earth to us, ever.

We wait for the day when messages will be about DID and about you. There are other people in here in relationships too, and they do not push it.

Floralie (writer) Sami (opinion)

We have boundaries in our relationships with our husband, and he respects them. It is not our problem that you and a few others became judgey when it was revealed that we chose to be in a BDSM Dom/sub relationship with our husband. That is when the attacks on our relationship began to happen, and why we stopped talking about that aspect of the relationship(s). We went back to school and finished our college degree because of our husband's support. We maintained straight A's all five semesters because of our husband's support. We raised the children better because of our husband's support. We will attend and successfully complete law school because of our husband's support. We crave and need structure, and he helps with that. You have no idea what you are talking about when you say that his involvement in our life is a "red flag." We do not "push" our relationship on anyone. Yes, Britney talks about it a lot. Because Britney is a hormonal, insecure, passionate teenager. When she loves, she loves fiercely, and when she hurts, it cripples her.

So get down off of your high, judgey "I Know what is best for everyone with DID" horse.
Is he perfect? No, of course not. But neither are we. You say that it was a red flag that B came in here posting about how great our husband is, why would we post about flaws and faults? Relationships on their own can be tricky. But it's even more complicated when you throw in the fact that the man is trying to juggle not one but SIX relationships. Of course there are going to be insecurities, jealousy and hurt feelings, especially with a teenager who feels like she is in competition with the others. And that is not our husband's doing. That is B's own doing.

I will not speak of this anymore with you, nor will I allow B to interact with you on this subject any longer. Any further posts on this thread from you, or future posts attacking our relationship will go unanswered, unread, and ignored.

Good day.

by **myce** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:41 pm

ItsJustUs

Will you at least admit to yourself that the D/s nature of the relationship is a trauma-induced fixation? If it has to do with religion, remember that thorns and patriarchy were the conditions of a curse. If you want to live your life as a fantasy role-play and never grow up that is your business, but your children will judge you more harshly than anyone on this forum.

by **ItsJustUs** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:08 pm

myce wrote:ItsJustUs

Will you at least admit to yourself that the D/s nature of the relationship is a trauma-induced fixation? If it has to do with religion, remember that thorns and patriarchy were the conditions of a curse. If you want to live your life as a fantasy role-play and never grow up that is your business, but your children will judge you more harshly than anyone on this forum.

What do you mean by "trauma induced fixation?" Do I admit that part of who we are now and what certain parts want/need is because of the environment we grew up in? Yes. Because that is a logical deduction.

"...fantasy role play and never grow up..." I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that.

And the children know they are loved. They see stability. As far as our relationship with our husband, the children see respect flowing both ways, they see a home where the husband is the head of the household but who asks and respects the opinions of their mother. They know that if they are told something good will happen, it happens. They know there are consequences and punishments for bad behavior. They see a united front when it comes to parenting and know they cannot play one against the other. IF one of us has an issue regarding how the other has handled the children, it is discussed in private. The children see nothing of the D/s other than the father/husband is the head of the home, because children have no place in the Lifestyle. Making them aware of it would be grossly inappropriate. They see love. We shave our husband on Sunday every weekend, and the youngest actually gets upset if I forget to tell her we are about to do it because she loves putting the shaving cream on him and then gives him a head massage. They know they can count on him and he will always be there for them.

I can tell you that the children are happier than they ever were before because they have a stability which their lives lacked. The oldest who has ADHD and thrives when there is schedule and stability is so much more confident and relaxed than he had been previously. His behavior is better, his grades are better and he has friends.

So as far as the children are concerned, we are not worried about their judgement.

And I just want to add, our T saw how much better we were doing after our relationship with our husband became serious, and said it was a good and healthy thing for us. She knew all about the D/s. Her opinion solidified even more after she met him and he attended a session with us.

by **SystemFlo** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:19 pm

Maybe it is better you don't read what I write, because you don't like me. That's why it doesn't matter what I say, you will anyway understand it the way you feel about me, not the way it was written.

I really believe you should focus on B, not him, but for some reason the things I said about her or to her don't make you react at all. Only talking about him is important. To me, that is your problem, and you proofed it once more to be true.

I am not an expert on DID treatment, but I do not believe there are systems that do not need co-operation to get better. If you believe you are special one like that, then it's you on your high horse, not me.

Sami was not talking about what B wrote in here, but your whole time in this forum. All praising for your husband was really weird and overwhelmed people in here then in the beginning. They aren't here anymore, the ones who got overwhelmed by it. I miss them. We found it shady then. We found it also shady when you got new member to back you up suddenly, and Sami will not forget all those little things that were off then.

We wonder if any of you have ever written a whole message without mentioning your husband, had a conversation just about you like other people do. Being obsessed like you are feels super pushy. When you started people were triggered by it, because it's just force feeding agenda they do not wanna be involved with. I know you feel like a victim because of it, but Sami does not agree you'd be one. You can talk about things without advertising your man, but choose not to do it. And people are allowed to react on that.

For Sami it doesn't make a difference if you are worshiping of some God all the time, or a person like now. You can not do that all the time and assume no one will react or disagree. We have our own beliefs. You can't assume that no one will feel pushed too far and say stop to the brain washing. We have understood already he means everything for you and is the center of everything.

Your relationship would not be our business if you wouldn't make it one. But we are tired of it too, like we are to other people who repeat only one thing time after time. That is why we have stopped your messages long time ago, but we click them open sometimes. We do that when it seems to be something not husband related, but about DID. I guess it never is.

So let's not communicate. It's fine with me.

by **TheGangsAllHere** » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:52 pm

I have a question. What does your husband do to encourage and support the internal communication and independent decision-making of your system? That's where and how parts can understand their place and importance to the system. There are often jobs on the inside that parts can find to do if/when they are less needed on the outside. But all the parts are needed by the system, or they wouldn't exist.

Also, does your husband have a therapist or some kind of emotional support to help him deal with the overflow of difficult issues happening inside you?

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