emotions, responsibility and co-regulation

we are really big in taking responsibility for ourselves.
because our family never had any boundaries with emotions and demanded that everyone regulates the other, we stopped that kind of action in our life.
We keep our emotions for ourselves, regulate alone. We don't need help from anyone. (anyone! a part says a little too desperately in the back)
Sometimes we express some when writing, but we practically never show such vulnerablility when we are around people. Always at least a neutral face. Withdrawing when something needs attention and regulation.
we read a lot and co-regulation is a big topic in trauma literature. we can do that with each other pretty well, because we have built trust. and because it is literally still us regulating us.
We don't think others should play a big role in that. never be dependent.
We just notice that therapy is a little weird when we do that. in the past therapists have told us that it is impossible to work with us.
and then we have friends who come to us to share their ups and downs and we respond with empathy and co-regulation for them. but nobody is allowed to do it for us. because we just can't trust anyone with our emotions.
so how is it supposed to work? when do you share feelings in a healthy way? how can co-regulation not be enmeshment? who is responsible for an emotion when we open up for co-regulation? and how could we even do that?

First thought: therapy is the perfect testing ground for this.

Other than that, I think emotions ALWAYS stay your own responsibility, even when you share them. In my opinion, you give the other person the opportunity to support/co-regulate, but you have to be okay with it if they can't or won't (or at least realize you won't die and also have ways to regulate yourself), otherwise it may not be the right time to ask.

Do you know what it would take for you to trust another person like you trust yourselves? Where would you need to be relationship/friendship wise? What would be signs that tell you it's okay (or not okay)? What is it that you are afraid of exactly? What would happen if you would become enmeshed?

It sounds like this is partially stuff about boundaries.
And also, do you feel like you would deserve to have someone listen to you and be there for you? If not, shame is probably a player too.

we agree with you on the responsibility and the theory
but then we still don't understand how other people could help and how we could let them.
like we are missing the basic concept somehow.
not shame based as far as I can see.
we just don't trust other people with our feelings. with a vague idea that they won't handle them well.
I think it goes back to neglect and avoidant attachment. better to regulate ourselves and not share it with anyone. what gets shared creates more hurt.
somehow we don't have the bridge between our emotions and other people. no clue how to communicate them. or even show them? that certainly doesn't feel right. showing emotions makes us look stupid. I hear a lot of the concepts of the abuser group in that.
I just can't figure out what would be ok and how to approach all that
Mike says that when people co-regulate they take on a certain kind of responsibility. but it is for their co-regulation, not for the emotion itself

Oh, that is difficult. It reminds me of Mae, who was host when we were around 10 years old. She didn't understand much about the world, especially not about social interaction. We had to learn everything: that questions like "how are you" are not always scripts, that people lie sometimes, stuff like that.

Maybe there are examples you could follow? I don't know if they really exist but I imagine that Tony Attwood has resources on this, linked to autism so maybe not what you are looking for. I would also imagine that sesame street has material on this, but that may be difficult to find and not age appropriate.

How does it go when you share inside? Can you see the other parts expressing emotion with their bodies and faces? Do you think it looks silly?
I also tend to hide emotions. It's not the best because people have less information so they won't be as willing or able to adapt to your wishes/needs sometimes. Or they won't know how much you appreciate something.

The question on how people can help is SO familiar to me. Only thing I can really think of is that sometimes it helps to say things out loud and when someone listens it means you're not alone with it anymore.
Sorry if we're not focusing enough on the trauma fears.

any feedback helps. I think we are still trying to figure out what the questions really is. or define the problem. so even just noticing what is not the problem is helpful.
it is not really an autistic experience. we feel emotions, we know our emotions, we manage them.
we notice them in others and respond to their emotions with empathy and connection (unless you get Asti in a mood... she responds with too much head and not enough heart)
so it seems like in response to another persons emotions we adapt to that well and mirror or respond well.
but that doesn't mean that we share our own feelings.
it might come down to a trust issue?
like when it never got us anything but trouble to show feelings, why do it. the family seems to think that showing your real feelings about things is weakness. it is not how the elite present themselves. (we have a lot of the 'we are superior' thinking in the abuser group)
so basically what we learned is that it is never right to show emotions.
we sometimes say it out loud in therapy and the T always seems suprised because it is not visible. like Asti almost exploded from anger and nothing was visible.
I think it is childhood training, but it leaves us clueless on how to show emotions now.
like we sometimes don't connect our inside with out outside anymore.
maybe that is the bridge that is missing? that we feel it inside but it doesn't arrive in the body so other people can't see or sense it?
we are so deeply trained that our emotions are our business alone that we don't know when they might be someone elses business as well. when are other people supposed to know what we are feeling?

when we share feelings inside it often means that the other part can actually feel our feelings. so that is not like someone else is involved. other times we witness a meltdown and it sure looks weak and disordered and messy. we don't judge that in ourselves. yet, that is still different from contact with outside people.
some of us do judge other people being emotional as being inferior or weak. or annoying. there is some stuff from the abuser group that is stuck in the system.
I think we might look into expressing emotion with our body. and try not to judge that. I am sure that is one missing link.
the other one has to do with the freedom to express in the first place.
still thinking about that...

Yes, I think you're onto something.
Expressing emotions with the body, when alone at first, with a curious and non-judgmental attitude about it.

And, yes, it sounds like some old stuff is involved.
I had a similar upbringing in that it was not allowed to express emotions.
I think I broke that down after spending the last four years in therapy with the same T. It just takes super long until I'll ever feel comfortable enough to express raw emotion. It's no wonder, because in our society, when is that okay??? Like, almost never. I guess only with close friends or family.

Maybe it could be a soothing idea to imagine being in nature when you express emotion with the body? Trees don't judge. Nature is also really intense, with waterfalls and waves and strong winds and deep ravines. Maybe it helps not to judge because emotions are kind of nature, it is natural and helpful for survival.
The signalling to others is also helpful when you are in a safe pack. We had the misfortune to grow up in an unsafe pack.